Florida church plans to burn Korans on 9/11 anniversary

[K.Venugopal]

I'm not sure what you could advocate as an effective means to 'nip it in the bud', (is it the violence we're talking about here?) as the world is ever changing.

'Niping in the bud' can be done only by a conscientous government. In America after 9/11 terrorism was not repeated. This is only due to a zero tolerence level against terrorism by all government agencies. That is a good example.

 

[K.Venugopal]

What they did is not Islamic in anyway, shape or form. Its not an islamic solution. There is no such thing as to cut of the hand of someone who wrote something i didn't like. Especially when he is already being dealt with by the court.

It might not have actually been an Islamic solution. But this particular Islamic organization appears to have taken a leaf from the Shariat (Kangaroo) courts of the Taliban. Unfortunately, the larger community often pays for the sins of its more wayward members.

 

[LuisDantas]

'Niping in the bud' can be done only by a conscientous government. In America after 9/11 terrorism was not repeated. This is only due to a zero tolerence level again terrorism by all government agencies. That is a good example.

Actually, it is a lousy, rotten, misguided example. If it is an example at all, which I doubt.

For all I know Osama Bin Laden got exactly what he wanted as a consequence of 9/11. Namely, remarkable levels of erosion on both military and financial health of the USA. But above all, he succeeded in exacerbating existing tensions and luring the American military into a quagmire of disastrous proportions and cost. He preached that the USA were the enemy, and GWB dutifuly attempted to show that he was right.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

You know... I think I figured how to efficiently protest people like this.

Completely ignore their outbursts. Acknowledge them of course, but then ignore them like a child throwing a temper tantrum. They might shut up and get over themselves then, just like a child.

 

[Badran]

It might not have actually been an Islamic solution. But this particular Islamic organization appears to have taken a leaf from the Shariat (Kangaroo) courts of the Taliban. Unfortunately, the larger community often pays for the sins of its more wayward members.

Indeed, its very much so.

 

[Badran]

Irrelevant? Separate, certainly, but I can see how many would (rather foolishly and destructively, to be sure, but even so sincerely) feel justified in "upping the ante" as long as they associate such behavior with the spread of Islam.

It is much like an arms race, come to think of it. Both sides claim to abhor it, neither wants to be much behind the other.

I would love to learn that such violent radicals are not Muslims, and do not even consider themselves Muslims. Quite frankly, that would make so many things easier. But is it reasonable to expect as much?

No, of course it wouldn't be reasonable to expect so.

Though, forgive me for being dense, but i didn't understand the connection between the claim that Islamic solutions backfire or have a problem dealing with violence, and between the incident of this thread. If whats meant is that the incident of this thread is a response to something, i would say not necessarily, because according to the article this church has a sign over its front lawn saying "Islam is of the devil". Also, if we assume it is a response to something, that has very little if anything to justify it, if that was the intent of course. If that isn't the intent or the meant link, then i fail completely to see any link.

 

[LuisDantas]

No, of course it wouldn't be reasonable to expect so.

Though, forgive me for being dense, but i didn't understand the connection between the claim that Islamic solutions backfire or have a problem dealing with violence, and between the incident of this thread. If whats meant is that the incident of this thread is a response to something, i would say not necessarily, because according to the article this church has a sign over its front lawn saying "Islam is of the devil".

I very much doubt that church is responding to any specific incident. Far as I can tell, it has a lot of anger and decided that Islam is a nice target for it. I really don't believe there is any stronger cause-and-consequence link.

Also, if we assume it is a response to something, that has very little if anything to justify it, if that was the intent of course. If that isn't the intent or the meant link, then i fail completely to see any link.

I believe this is largely a problem of public image, sincerely. And even more so, a problem of fearing the unknown. It is hard to know how reliable tales of violence are, and even harder to gauge the context and driving forces.

Still, it is only sensible to assume that scary tales of radical muslims don't help any in building trust in Islam. Coupled with the fact that some people don't really want to build such trust, the results are worrisome indeed.

I fear that for many Americans (and Brazilians, for that matter) it is simply too confortable to get carried away by generalizations. It makes decisions simpler, even if dishonestly so. They fear the extremists and they want to believe that some blanket measures will protect them from same. If it turns out that said measures involve feeling proud, righteous and courageous, so much the better as far as they are concerned.

 

[Badran]

I very much doubt that church is responding to any specific incident. Far as I can tell, it has a lot of anger and decided that Islam is a nice target for it. I really don't believe there is any stronger cause-and-consequence link.

Indeed, since they also (according to the article) share the same feelings for homosexuals.

I believe this is largely a problem of public image, sincerely. And even more so, a problem of fearing the unknown. It is hard to know how reliable tales of violence are, and even harder to gauge the context and driving forces.

Still, it is only sensible to assume that scary tales of radical muslims don't help any in building trust in Islam. Coupled with the fact that some people don't really want to build such trust, the results are worrisome indeed.

I fear that for many Americans (and Brazilians, for that matter) it is simply too confortable to get carried away by generalizations. It makes decisions simpler, even if dishonestly so. They fear the extremists and they want to believe that some blanket measures will protect them from same. If it turns out that said measures involve feeling proud, righteous and courageous, so much the better as far as they are concerned.

I think i'm following you more now. If you mean, that its easy for some people, to accept things they wouldn't in other circumstances, when dealing with an unknown which also happens to have some negative aspects about it, then i agree.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is not even a need for negative aspects, Badran. Lack of familiarity and a perception of negative aspects are quite enough. Sometimes even a suspicion is enough.

In this respect, Muslims often fail to defend their faith. There seems to be a tendency to keep to themselves and not even attempt to convince those savage westerns that don't understand how precious are God's gifts. Understandable to a degree, but not very helpful in dispelling fears that often have no true substance. I truly wish this would change, for all people lose a lot for that.

 

[K.Venugopal]

By the way, is anyone on this thread monitoring what is happening to the threat to burn Qurans on 9/11? Is the US government taking steps to prevent the Church members from carrying out the threat? In India I suppose such a threat would have got the government cracking to all but send the tanks against the Church, with "pre-emptive" (a popular word in Indian police action) arrests of the Church leaders. I think somewhere it is understood that making a threat is almost synonymous to carrying out the threat. Of course, this response by the Indian government would often only be on paper. Many a time they have slept over serious issues till it got out of hand!

 

[K.Venugopal]

In this respect, Muslims often fail to defend their faith. There seems to be a tendency to keep to themselves and not even attempt to convince those savage westerns that don't understand how precious are God's gifts. Understandable to a degree, but not very helpful in dispelling fears that often have no true substance. I truly wish this would change, for all people lose a lot for that.

Oops. Is that true? I thought of late Muslims have been rather over-enthusiastic about their religion, ready to explain all aspects to any audience even only half willing to listen. Anyway, a lot of mutual understanding of religions is the need of the times. This will bring goodwill, provided no one takes a holier-than-thou attitude.

 

[Smoke]

For all I know Osama Bin Laden got exactly what he wanted as a consequence of 9/11.

I don't think there's any doubt about it. The 9/11 attacks were a masterful bit of strategy, in that the U.S. government played right into bin Laden's hands. He knows his enemy better than his enemy knows him, and that gives him and those like him a tremendous advantage.

 

[Smoke]

You know... I think I figured how to efficiently protest people like this.

Completely ignore their outbursts.

I think we might all be better off if news outlets took a moment to consider how much of this crap is really newsworthy. There's no point in giving free publicity to every crank who comes down the pike.

 

[Smoke]

By the way, is anyone on this thread monitoring what is happening to the threat to burn Qurans on 9/11? Is the US government taking steps to prevent the Church members from carrying out the threat? In India I suppose such a threat would have got the government cracking to all but send the tanks against the Church, with "pre-emptive" (a popular word in Indian police action) arrests of the Church leaders.

That's not going to happen. In the US, they have every right to burn Qur'ans if they want to. I think it's kind of funny to think of these idiots buying Qur'ans just to burn them, since I doubt many of them already own a copy, and I'm assuming that they don't intend to steal them.

I've seen many events over the years where churches get the teenagers all stirred up and have big burning of "worldly" books -- or more often music. As stupid as that is, I can see how it has some value in reinforcing groupthink among the youth. They get to purge themselves of their worldly ways and make a fresh commitment to their religion. Burning Qur'ans has no such value; it's just an act of raw, inarticulate hate, anger, and stupidity.

 

[T-Dawg]

Hmm. You know, I'm thinking that if this gets carried out, I should go and burn some Bibles in response. Probably the little cheap kinds that missionaries hand out on the streets for free, but it'll still have some shock value. Sound like a good idea? I can try and do it at the same time he does his Quran-burning, if possible.

 

[jonman122]

Hmm. You know, I'm thinking that if this gets carried out, I should go and burn some Bibles in response. Probably the little cheap kinds that missionaries hand out on the streets for free, but it'll still have some shock value. Sound like a good idea? I can try and do it at the same time he does his Quran-burning, if possible.

do it beside them, and with the same amount of bibles. effective counter-protest

 

[uu_sage]

This church is a great disrespect to Christians, Baptists, and all people of faith. Their theology is deranged and they are a cult-hate group.

 

[Levite]

source

I hope that, even for the insanity that is US political/religious culture, this is far on the fringe. I really hope so.

I cannot think of many things that would be more repugnant than a Quran-burning. No matter how much one might find a book offensive (and I would doubt how many of these idiots had ever actually read a Quran, much less had any of it taught to them properly, by a qualified imam), only bigots and barbarians burn books. And that goes double for anyone's sacred texts.

Heinrich Heine said, Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man am Ende auch Menschen. ("Anywhere they burn books, they will ultimately burn people, also.") And he was not wrong. Bookburners are only one step away from Crusaders, Nazis, Cossacks, Khmer Rouge, or makers of pogroms.

I would not see even a book utterly without redemption, like Mein Kampf, burned; so burning something (to the contrary) so full of wisdom and beautiful poetry as a Quran is infuriating to me.

These people are the scum of the earth. I hope their hatred comes back to bite them in the a** soon, and hard.

 

[T-Dawg]

do it beside them, and with the same amount of bibles. effective counter-protest

I'm way far away from Florida . Unless my school randomly decides to sponsor a trip to see the protest or something crazy like that, I'll be thousands of miles away.
Although if I'm lucky, I may be able to get a video of them doing it to do it beside or something XD.

 

[Cypress]

They call themselves the WORLD OUTREACH CENTER ?????!!!!

This one? Yes I think.

Hmm. You know, I'm thinking that if this gets carried out, I should go and burn some Bibles in response.

do it beside them, and with the same amount of bibles. effective counter-protest

I would like to burn 1 copy of every book & scripture that accuse women to be inferior and of minor value compared to men, starting with the Greek philosophers up to whatever-is-the-newest-****-in-this-line.
But I fear the pile would be higher than the World Trade Center was....