Evolution My ToE

[YoursTrue]

No.

Ah, interesting. Thank you! (although he was placed in Mary's womb, and grew)

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you same the same about Christian ministers?

No one on this earth is perfect. I hope that answers your question. Taking that a step further, if I believed in the Hindu religion, let's say, I would follow that. And because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean I believe they are necessarily approved or accepted by God. After all, Jesus did call some hypocrites, didn't he? Now who is to decide? In the long run, God. In the short run, we each must decide for ourselves what we believe, or 'take to.'

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No one on this earth is perfect. I hope that answers your question. Taking that a step further, if I believed in the Hindu religion, let's say, I would follow that. And because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean I believe they are necessarily approved or accepted by God. After all, Jesus did call some hypocrites, didn't he? Now who is to decide? In the long run, God. In the short run, we each must decide for ourselves what we believe, or 'take to.'

Since it is up to God, the Christianity of another isn't something you can challenge or comment meaningfully on then. I agree.

 

[metis]

Ah, interesting. Thank you! (although he was placed in Mary's womb, and grew)

Thus an example of how life forms change over time, thus the ToE does the same but on a more massive scale.

 

[metis]

No one on this earth is perfect.

My point was that one should not be critical about scientists without doing the same with other areas. If one is going to condemn scientists, then they should also take a careful look at other areas as well, including in the realm of religion.

Taking that a step further, if I believed in the Hindu religion, let's say, I would follow that. And because someone claims to be a Christian doesn't mean I believe they are necessarily approved or accepted by God. After all, Jesus did call some hypocrites, didn't he? Now who is to decide? In the long run, God. In the short run, we each must decide for ourselves what we believe, or 'take to.'

Agreed.

 

[Astrophile]

Ah, interesting. Thank you! (although he was placed in Mary's womb, and grew)

Yes, interesting. Do you think that Jesus developed from an ovum (or oocyte) released from one of Mary's ovaries, and therefore that he inherited a selection of Mary's genes?

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, interesting. Do you think that Jesus developed from an ovum (or oocyte) released from one of Mary's ovaries, and therefore that he inherited a selection of Mary's genes?

That's a good question. I can guess, but right now I don't know. BUT -- since sin and death is said to have passed from Adam, it brings into my mind some questions I can't answer. I will say, however, that there must have been an umbilical cord, and fluids from Mary's body that nourished the baby in her womb. And we know, don't we, that Mary came about as a result of conception with a male (human) and female, also human. I can't go further than that now.

 

[YoursTrue]

My point was that one should not be critical about scientists without doing the same with other areas. If one is going to condemn scientists, then they should also take a careful look at other areas as well, including in the realm of religion.

Agreed.

Actually, I'm not condemning the certainly broad category of scientists, or haven't you noticed. What I am saying is the guesswork and retractions that take place pertaining to the theory of evolution, plus move the line of certainty many of us learn in school as if evolution is true at whatever stage it's being taught at.

 

[YoursTrue]

Thus an example of how life forms change over time, thus the ToE does the same but on a more massive scale.

Ah, you surprised me.
Maybe I misunderstand you. So you're saying the conception of Jesus is an example of how life forms change over time? (surprise -- please kindly explain exactly what you mean by that)
So (1), was Mary a virgin when she conceived Jesus?
And (2), was Jesus conceived in Mary's womb by evolutionary means, is that how you see it?
Here's my broad view on this: humans remain humans. Birds remain birds, chimpanzees remain chimpanzees. In essence, they're not "evolving." You may say they are, but they're not. IMO. Here's why, no matter what anyone says, yes -- conjecture is conjecture about the past regarding fossils and evolution, or future.
Humans stay humans, even if the look of their eyes change, or the skin color changes. That is not, imo, evolution. You may say it is, but it is simple and pure genetics. The mechanism of development which was created by God.

 

[metis]

What I am saying is the guesswork and retractions that take place pertaining to the theory of evolution, plus move the line of certainty many of us learn in school as if evolution is true at whatever stage it's being taught at.

That's not how we do it. What often one sees are projections based on hypotheses, thus not assumed to be slam-dunk facts. Unfortunately, the media all too often do not report it as such.

But what is abundantly clear is that life evolves over time, and we humans are "life" as well. Humans 2+ million years ago really don't look much like we do today, and yet they're still clearly human. But humans 4+ million years look quite close to being apes, but still there's tell-tale signs that they are still very much human.

If you get a chance, maybe google this.

 

[metis]

Maybe I misunderstand you. So you're saying the conception of Jesus is an example of how life forms change over time? (surprise -- please kindly explain exactly what you mean by that)

Again, to repeat, life forms change over time, whether that be from conception to death or changing forms over myriads of centuries.

Here's my broad view on this: humans remain humans. Birds remain birds, chimpanzees remain chimpanzees. In essence, they're not "evolving."

They and we very much are evolving and will continue to do so unless we go extinct. The evidence is absolutely overwhelming, but if one doesn't even try to look at things objectively they will probably never know what the truth is on this matter, and probably some other matters as well.

My experience speaks to that as well as I was brought up in my fundamentalist Protestant church to not accept the ToE, but through my studies it became obvious that the basics of the ToE are very much real. I left that church roughly 50 years ago and belong to one that accepts science as not being a threat to our faith.

Here's why, no matter what anyone says, yes -- conjecture is conjecture about the past regarding fossils and evolution, or future.

Well, here's the problem in that there pretty much is nothing more conjectural that religious beliefs, and yet so many people don't much question what they're being taught in that arena. We know with certainty that life forms evolve, and yet we don't know with any objective certainty whatsoever whether there's a god or gods? I believe in God, but that's on the basis of my faith based on some experiences I had, thus not on empirical evidence.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, glad you asked, because I've been researching some things about ancient Babylon. Again, the Bible goes into great detail about Babylon, what happened, and the relationship of Israel, God Almighty, and interraction with Babylon. And here is what one source says about references regarding Babylon:
"The city owes its fame (or infamy) to the many references the Bible makes to it; all of which are unfavourable." And later goes on to say, "Whatever early role the city played in the ancient world is lost to modern-day scholars because the water level in the region has risen steadily over the centuries and the ruins of Old Babylon have become inaccessible."
(Records -- true or not, depending on which politician you believe -- were LOST in many cases about many civilizations. I'm sure you know that. But the BIBLE continued being written and basically unchanged for millenia.)
Babylon

So you're glad I asked, but you still won't answer the questions.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If you think you can just say whatever crazy thing you want and that you don't have to back it up because you think "it's science," you're more far gone that I could have ever thought.

Science must have support.


Your words betray that as false.

Have a nice life, Dude.

I'm done with this nonsensical ****show.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How do you reconcile that with the claim that we were given free will by God? Either we have the free will or we do not. Which is it dude?

I know, right?

I always chuckle when theists tell atheists that for some reason free will is "not compatible" with atheism. Nonsense off course. And the exact opposite is true in most of those cases... As those same theists like to define their god as "all knowing" to the point of knowing the future.

Having exact knowledge of the future, is exactly what is incompatible with free will.
If the future is set in stone, then so is every decision that will ever be made by anybody.

While free will is the exact opposite of that. Every future decision that will ever be made, can only be known if all those decisions are predetermined.

Either we have free will and our decisions are NOT predetermined.
Or we don't and they are.

It can't be both.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, but do you believe Mary got pregnant by evolution when she was a virgin? Again -- thank you. You and some others regarding these points have done so much for me!!
Perhaps you agree with ex-chemist in his assessment that -- it was "whataboutery"?? Of course when you go into Judaic history, there are certainly aspects of commentary about that. But really -- we are discussing what YOU believe about Mary and evolution and getting pregnant with Jesus.

Got pregnant by evolution?
What do you mean??

 

[dad]

Have a nice life, Dude.

I'm done with this nonsensical ****show.

I am done with fairy tales that people cannot begin to support and that have been exposed as being totally belief-based being offered as any sort of fact or real science. Having defeated posters run when they are out of steam is par for the course. Toodaloo.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's not how we do it. What often one sees are projections based on hypotheses, thus not assumed to be slam-dunk facts. Unfortunately, the media all too often do not report it as such.

But what is abundantly clear is that life evolves over time, and we humans are "life" as well. Humans 2+ million years ago really don't look much like we do today, and yet they're still clearly human. But humans 4+ million years look quite close to being apes, but still there's tell-tale signs that they are still very much human.

If you get a chance, maybe google this.

Here's the problem: how do you know exactly and precisely that humans existed 2+ million years ago? Let's start there first before we get into 4+ million years ago where you say they looked "close to being apes." (Close to being apes?? but anyway...let's start with exactly and precisely definately do you know that humans existed 2+ million years ago? Not hypothesizing about it, but definitely. Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

Got pregnant by evolution?
What do you mean??

If a person believes in the Bible and evolution, the Bible says that Jesus (1) came from heaven, and (2) Mary was impregnated by holy spirit. So was Jesus therefore a result of evolution? In other words, if I understand you correctly, you do believe that a male and female today are products of the evolutionary process in all cases, don't you? Here is what the Bible says: (Matthew chapter 1) "But after he had pondered these things, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to embrace Mary as your wife, for the One conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21 She will give birth to a Son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus, because He will save His people from their sins.”

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, to repeat, life forms change over time, whether that be from conception to death or changing forms over myriads of centuries.

They and we very much are evolving and will continue to do so unless we go extinct. The evidence is absolutely overwhelming, but if one doesn't even try to look at things objectively they will probably never know what the truth is on this matter, and probably some other matters as well.

My experience speaks to that as well as I was brought up in my fundamentalist Protestant church to not accept the ToE, but through my studies it became obvious that the basics of the ToE are very much real. I left that church roughly 50 years ago and belong to one that accepts science as not being a threat to our faith.

Well, here's the problem in that there pretty much is nothing more conjectural that religious beliefs, and yet so many people don't much question what they're being taught in that arena. We know with certainty that life forms evolve, and yet we don't know with any objective certainty whatsoever whether there's a god or gods? I believe in God, but that's on the basis of my faith based on some experiences I had, thus not on empirical evidence.

You talk about the possibility of being extinct. Is that in the Bible as far as humans being extinct? So far what I see is that viruses may morph (yes, I'll use that expression) to other forms of virus, such as they're saying is happening with the covid19 now. But the situation is that they are still viruses. Chimps remain chimps. And yes, humans remain humans.

 

[Bear Wild]

You talk about the possibility of being extinct. Is that in the Bible as far as humans being extinct? So far what I see is that viruses may morph (yes, I'll use that expression) to other forms of virus, such as they're saying is happening with the covid19 now. But the situation is that they are still viruses. Chimps remain chimps. And yes, humans remain humans.

Under your time span they probably will but our time on earth is so short that we cannot see the change and yet genetic change is on going and differences are occurring. Chimps and bonobos show this type of change similar yet different. Live long enough and you would see the change but in your limited perspective you cannot seem to comprehend this.