Evangelical Insurrectionists

[Subduction Zone]

Thank you!

If that is even Trump really and not improperly cut, and if I hear correctly, he says something like “women allow person to do anything, if person is a star”. And by what I have seen, it is true, when person is a star, women allow men to do many things they would not allow, if the man is poor and not famous. If women allows it, is it really wrong in your opinion?

I think it is wrong to do such things, even if women allows it. But, if I can’t say that gay people should not have sex, why should I have right to say Trump should not have the same right?

No, he said that when a person is a star that they can get away with anything. That does not mean that women allow it.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry, I don’t think that recording has Trump threatening or even pressuring anyone. I think Trump has legitimate request in that and it is very odd why people are against it. It is also very sad to hear how difficult it is for people to understand each other. Would expect more from people in those positions.

That recording has many reasons why I can’t believe the elections were honest. It is very interesting how easily some people believe the elections were fair, even though there are lot of unclear matters that are not examined properly. Biden is lucky that he doesn’t have to prove the elections were honest. If he would be Lukashenka or Trump or someone else that is not accepted by communists, the situation would be very different.

Then you really need to work on your comprehension of what a threat is. I am sorry bit it is clear as day. Why else even mention that someone could get in trouble? There was no evidence at all of any wrong doing. His mention of that was a threat, even if you did not understand it.

You might have a case of conservative TDS.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Attacked? No. Laughed at? Probably. Just about every claim you posted here is false. This is called a Gish Gallop. That is the use of posting a long mixture of errors, half truths, and outright lies in an attempt to win a debate. It is done so to attempt to awe one's opponent. Since it is a dishonest tactic falsifying one claim falsifies the entire list.

Are you sure that you want to do this?

Not with you. I don't believe you have an open mind about this. You said about every claim posted is false. Which is a false claim on your part - thereby falsifying your entire response.

 

[Windwalker]

I disagree with that, he didn't incite violence.

You may disagree all you want. But your view is not shared by the rest of the world who has held him responsible. He was impeached by a bipartisan vote, explicitly stating he did.

And I think it was also the idea of founding fathers that people should have the right to go against tyranny.

Trump did not incite violence against tyranny. He incited it against democracy, to overturn a legal, confirmed, and valid vote by the American people. He is the tyrant, not democracy itself.

I think there is no freedom of speech, if any speech is forbidden.

You may wish that to be true all you want to excuse all manner of behaviors, but that spreading falsehoods and inciting riots is NOT a constitutional right. Period. People are allowed, by law, to sue people who use their speech to slander and defame people all the time. Giuliani, for instance, is facing a 1.2 Billion dollar lawsuit for his "free speech". So it appears his "free speech", is not free at all. It's going to ruin him financially, as well it should under American law.

And if there is no freedom of speech, there is no democracy but tyranny. It is sad that western world is under tyranny nowadays. (it is not only Trump they are silencing).

Freedom of speech under the Constitution, has to do with the government suppressing the press from reporting on dissenting views. Inciting a riot is not covered under the freedom of speech amendment. Holding spreaders of lies leading to violence accountable, is absolutely legal constitutionally. You can also be held legally liable for spreading lies about businesses, such as the lies about the Dominion voting software. All of that, upholds a Democracy. What you suggest, undermines it.

And also, if we agree that it is ok to silence people, if they incite violence, why that rule is only for Trump and not for democrats of their supporters who incite violence? Why the double standard?

Anyone who incites violence should be held accountable. There is no double standard.

They are private businesses that very much gave Biden the money to win the election and then they removed anyone who would disagree.

So why didn't they ban Trump months ahead of the election, if the suppression of his Republican views was the intent? They didn't. You have no argument here. Furthermore, all actions taken against Trump happened after his sedition against the United States attempt on Jan. 6. And only three of those had anything to do with social media platforms. Deutsche Bank, now refuses to give Trump anymore loans. Do you think they are doing the Democrats bidding here?

I think that is evil and it means they are the government, they made Biden president and they also get to decide who is allowed to speak.

I think the majority of people recognize it as a good, myself included, that Trump's calls to insurrection against the United States and its people, its Democracy was curtailed in the manner it was. That was not political dissent. That was a call to arms against the United States to overturn a legitimately elected government by the people.

I think they are worse than Nazis, because they pretend to be good while they do evil things.

The America people voted in a free and fair election, that was certified, checked, rechecked, challenged, and found absolute solid and valid. That is not the Nazi party. The fascists here, are the ones who revolted against the will of the people to install an illegitimate leader of their own choosing instead. That was "stealing the election", and it was all done by Trump and his fascist supporters, who act just like the Nazis.

And usually when such people have the power, there will be much more evil thing they will do. Silencing opposition is the first move.

Biden won the election, fair and square. Trying to throw that out, was and attempt to silence their opposition, the American people. That was evil. And they need to pay the price for that evil against the United States of America.

 

[metis]

And by what I have seen, it is true, when person is a star, women allow men to do many things they would not allow, if the man is poor and not famous.

But with his record of hedonism and adultery, are you trying to excuse him on this? Even just bragging about being able to do this is unethical, imo, and I was a "gym rat" most of my life being in gymnastics in high school and college, and then playing softball and racquetball into my early 50's. During all those years, I never heard language like that. Nor did I ever talk to anyone about what I may have done on a date.

If women allows it, is it really wrong in your opinion?

Not really.

I think it is wrong to do such things, even if women allows it.

Obviously I was no saint, nor do I consider myself one now, so I "groped" quite a few women during my college years since I didn't believe in "going steady", thus preferring to "play the field". But if I "touched" a woman "below the equator" while making out, but she made it clear by words or actions that she didn't want that, then I wouldn't do it again unless she wanted me to.

OK, my halo just got dropped.

 

[metis]

Sorry, I don’t think that recording has Trump threatening or even pressuring anyone. I think Trump has legitimate request in that and it is very odd why people are against it.

You've gotta be kidding Asking the Secretary of State in Georgia to "find" thousands of votes to overturn the election even by "just 1", doesn't tell you something? Do you even believe in having a democracy?

That recording has many reasons why I can’t believe the elections were honest

So, all those Republicans in the states that were handling the electioneering process are dishonest and/or stupid? They said it was all done legally and that there's no evidence of enough fraud to question the results. And the same is also true of those in his own administration who handled the election, including Barr, who concluded the election was clearly won by Biden? And the 70 to 0 court decisions that went against his challenges?

Where in the world do you get your "news" from?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not with you. I don't believe you have an open mind about this. You said about every claim posted is false. Which is a false claim on your part - thereby falsifying your entire response.

No, I said just about every claim that you made is false. If you had an open mind you would find no need to try to twist the posts of others. Can you debate properly? Using a Gish Gallop is not a proper debating technique. Or do you want your whole list refuted by refuting one claim? Your choice.

Here is a hint, it is always best to start with your strongest claim.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

No, I said just about every claim that you made is false. If you had an open mind you would find no need to try to twist the posts of others. Can you debate properly? Using a Gish Gallop is not a proper debating technique. Or do you want your whole list refuted by refuting one claim? Your choice.

Here is a hint, it is always best to start with your strongest claim.

You said just about every claim was false. So tell me first which claims I made you agree are true.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You said just about every claim was false. So tell me first which claims I made you agree are true.

That is really not the way it works, but since you have in effect admitted that you are wrong by not even trying to support any of your false claims I will give you an example:

"Republicans took away House seats from the Democrats and yet supposedly lost the Presidential vote in those same states."

Yes, some states voted for Biden and still elected more Republicans for Congress. That happens. Thinking people do not necessarily vote a straight party line. Until the Republican party became the Part of Trump I was a Republican myself. When he ran the first time I did not vote for him but still voted for Republican Senate and House candidates. And one thing that made this worse were the riots that you spoke of. I did not like the riots and saw how it would hurt the Democrat cause, thankfully it did not hurt it badly enough that Trump was reelected. The riots worked against what the people that staged them wanted.

 

[SkepticThinker]

One example:

“BLM activist inside Capitol claims he was 'documenting' riots, once said 'burn it all down' John Sullivan has previously called for 'revolution' and to 'rip Trump' out of his office…”
BLM activist inside Capitol claims he was 'documenting' riots, once said 'burn it all down'

And because it was great way to go against Trump, I more easily believe most of the rest were also democrat supporters.

"A complication in the story is that James Sullivan has his own ties to the right-wing. He is the co-founder of Civilized Awakening, which bills itself as a conservative civil rights movement, and has spoken at rallies in the past alongside members of the Proud Boys. According to KTVX in Salt Lake City, he's also had run-ins with Black Lives Matter before – including in September, when a bodyguard he brought to a BLM protest was arrested on charges of brandishing a gun.

For its part, Black Lives Matter Utah has disavowed any connection with John Sullivan. BLM Utah founder Lex Scott posted a statement to Tik Tok calling John Sullivan "a thorn in our side."

"This man is not a member of Black Lives Matter Utah," Scott said. "He never has been. He never will be. He is not affiliated with Black Lives Matter or with our chapter in Utah."
Man turns in brother for Capitol riot participation | wusa9.com


Your story sounds like the kind of made up nonsense I've come to expect from Fox News, who also appear to be pushing this garbage about the insurrectionists actually being antifa and BLM. Which of course, makes no sense.

The insurrectionists were there in support of Trump and his inane conspiracy theory. They've said so themselves in multiple videos and everywhere online. Trump told them in a video he released the day of the insurrection, that they are "special" and that he "loves them." So unless you actually think he loves antifa and BLM, you're deluding yourself with this stuff.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I disagree with that, he didn't incite violence. And I think it was also the idea of founding fathers that people should have the right to go against tyranny.

There is a new video out now recorded by people in the crowd at Trump's speech on January 6th, right before the insurrection began. After Trump goes on about how the election was stolen by evil people and that he's going to march to the Capitol building with them (I guess nobody seems to care that he totally ditched them??), people within the crowd, inspired by the speech, start saying how they're going to storm and take the Capitol building. Like, literally right after Trump began inciting them. We all know how that turned out.

I think there is no freedom of speech, if any speech is forbidden. And if there is no freedom of speech, there is no democracy but tyranny. It is sad that western world is under tyranny nowadays. (it is not only Trump they are silencing).

Well, you’d be wrong on that.

You can’t yell fire in a crowded movie theatre if there is no fire and you can’t incite mobs of people to commit violence. I’d love to hear the reasons why you think these should be acceptable behaviors.

And also, if we agree that it is ok to silence people, if they incite violence, why that rule is only for Trump and not for democrats of their supporters who incite violence? Why the double standard?

Who, and what are you talking about?

They are private businesses that very much gave Biden the money to win the election and then they removed anyone who would disagree. I think that is evil and it means they are the government, they made Biden president and they also get to decide who is allowed to speak.

This sounds like more conspiracy stuff.

Evil, really?

Private businesses didn’t make Biden President by cutting off Trump’s Tweets long after the election was over. That doesn’t make sense.


Posting on social media is not a right. Private businesses have no obligation to allow people to use their platform to just spew whatever they want. They aren’t the government. The government is not allowed to infringe on your right to free speech. Private businesses running their own platforms that they are responsible for, can limit your speech for whatever reason. That reason can be that you’ve used their platform to incite violence or to spend all day calling people names. Having the right to free speech also doesn’t mean that you’re somehow shielded from the responses and consequences of sharing that speech. “Free speech” isn’t a blanket right to just say and do whatever you want, free of consequences. And if you say something incendiary, you should expect some pushback. That’s just common sense.

I think they are worse than Nazis, because they pretend to be good while they do evil things. And usually when such people have the power, there will be much more evil thing they will do. Silencing opposition is the first move.

Really?? The Nazis systematically murdered 6 million people and tried to take over the world.

Perhaps you’re being a tad hyperbolic again? Maybe it has something to do with how you throw around the word “evil” so loosely. Apparently everyone you don’t like is pure evil.

Really? I don’t think that is usually true, if they are not as big as Twitter and other tyrannical companies. For example, nowadays many small companies are forced to be shut down and can’t do their normal business, because of the “covid”.

But, for example twitter and Facebook claim to be platforms, because that gives them certain freedoms and rights. Now that they act like publishers they should not have the same rights as platforms have, because they are not that anymore.

It’s true.

“Hate speech” means nowadays everything that is not what the communists accepts. It can be used and is used to silence everyone conservative or Christian and I think it is utterly evil.

This is laughable. Sorry, but you played the communist card.

The 1950s called; they want their talking points back.

And in any case, going against the freedom of speech is evil, even if it would not be against Christians. There simply is no excuse that would make it right in any case.

And there’s that hyperbole again.

Christians are in the powerful majority in North America. They are not the victims.

Why are Christians inciting violence anyway??

 

[SkepticThinker]

Thank you!

If that is even Trump really and not improperly cut, and if I hear correctly, he says something like “women allow person to do anything, if person is a star”. And by what I have seen, it is true, when person is a star, women allow men to do many things they would not allow, if the man is poor and not famous. If women allows it, is it really wrong in your opinion?

NO. Arrogant men like Trump just believe garbage like that.

Women (and all people) generally don't want disgusting men grabbing at us and trying to grope us. Famous or not.

I think it is wrong to do such things, even if women allows it. But, if I can’t say that gay people should not have sex, why should I have right to say Trump should not have the same right?

I don't understand your comparison.

Trump isn't talking about having consensual sex with anyone. He's talking about grabbing women's genitals and kissing them without their consent.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Not with you. I don't believe you have an open mind about this. You said about every claim posted is false. Which is a false claim on your part - thereby falsifying your entire response.

Post some true claims and people won't have to point out the false ones.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

That is really not the way it works, but since you have in effect admitted that you are wrong by not even trying to support any of your false claims I will give you an example:

"Republicans took away House seats from the Democrats and yet supposedly lost the Presidential vote in those same states."

Yes, some states voted for Biden and still elected more Republicans for Congress. That happens. Thinking people do not necessarily vote a straight party line. Until the Republican party became the Part of Trump I was a Republican myself. When he ran the first time I did not vote for him but still voted for Republican Senate and House candidates. And one thing that made this worse were the riots that you spoke of. I did not like the riots and saw how it would hurt the Democrat cause, thankfully it did not hurt it badly enough that Trump was reelected. The riots worked against what the people that staged them wanted.

I haven't admitted anything of the sort. I wasn't claiming that to be proof in and of itself anyway. I was stating that as one of the fishy things that happened.

Are you going to deny they cast out republican observers and yet still continued to count votes contrary to law?

Are you going to deny that they wouldn't allow the voting machines in those key swing states to be examined?

Are you going to deny that the Supreme Court wouldn't hear the case brought forth by Texas?

Us debating isn't really going to change anything anyway. Probably no need to continue. But I would like to at least hear your answer to the above questions. Because you have to be either uninformed or dishonest to deny those.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I haven't admitted anything of the sort. I wasn't claiming that to be proof in and of itself anyway. I was stating that as one of the fishy things that happened.

Are you going to deny they cast out republican observers and yet still continued to count votes contrary to law?

Are you going to deny that they wouldn't allow the voting machines in those key swing states to be examined?

Are you going to deny that the Supreme Court wouldn't hear the case brought forth by Texas?

Us debating isn't really going to change anything anyway. Probably no need to continue. But I would like to at least hear your answer to the above questions. Because you have to be either uninformed or dishonest to deny those.

They did not cast out Republican observes. You were lied to.

The voting machines were examined in Georgia. And why would you need to investigate them? That was merely a delaying tactic by liars for Trump.

And of course the Supreme Court rejected Texas's case. They explained why. Do you understand that by the arguments that Texas used that their own results would have to be thrown out?

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Post some true claims and people won't have to point out the false ones.

Oh my you said I was wrong. I guess I must be.

 

[1213]

NO. Arrogant men like Trump just believe garbage like that.

Women (and all people) generally don't want disgusting men grabbing at us and trying to grope us. Famous or not... ...He's talking about grabbing women's genitals and kissing them without their consent.

Maybe they don’t want, but they seem to allow it, when the man is famous and rich. I understand what Trump says to mean that, perhaps we should ask from him what he meant, because apparently, I don’t hear it the same way you do.

Or maybe we don’t have. I have no need to defend anyone’s sayings. I only want to defend the freedoms and rights of other people. And I also understand that Amazon, Facebook and Twitter are private companies that can silence anyone they don’t like. I don’t like those companies, because I think they are evil and therefore I don’t use their services, luckily it is still possible for me to do so.

And this is not actually so much problem of Trump. It is more about common people and their rights. The sad thing is that now that Trump was removed, they go against conservatives and their rights. There really is no war between common people, the war is between common people and the elite that wants to enslave people. They use race, gender and other issues in that, because it is useful for them if people are divided. But the real attack is against the constitution that protects common people. That you can see from normal news, because even they show that all solutions to problems are to weaken the constitution and the rights of people.

And that is very sad to me. US has the greatest constitution in the world and I hope the leaders can’t destroy it, it is the best thing the people have. The constitution and it’s amendments is the only earthly thing protecting common people from tyranny, and I hope American people appreciate it and don’t allow it to be destroyed. No other country has anything as good and that I believe is the reason why other nations leaders are also against people who try to protect and keep it.

So, Trump is gone and you don’t need to like him, but I hope people in America love their constitution and don’t allow it to be destroyed. It seems that is what the elite is trying to do and Trump was just one obstacle in that path.

 

[1213]

...Who, and what are you talking about?...

I think Rand Paul tells here well what I mean:

...Private businesses didn’t make Biden President by cutting off Trump’s Tweets long after the election was over. That doesn’t make sense...

They did it by donating money and then they took care that the wrongdoings are not investigated properly by silencing the opposition.

 

[1213]

...The insurrectionists were there in support of Trump and his inane conspiracy theory. ...

Sorry, I don’t believe your claims.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

They did not cast out Republican observes. You were lied to.

The voting machines were examined in Georgia. And why would you need to investigate them? That was merely a delaying tactic by liars for Trump.

And of course the Supreme Court rejected Texas's case. They explained why. Do you understand that by the arguments that Texas used that their own results would have to be thrown out?

I saw actual videos of them being cast out myself on the news. I saw the windows being blocked so they couldn't see what was going on inside. Actual witnesses stated this giving affidavits. You were lied to.

You would need to investigate the machines to prove everything was on the up and up. Why do we look at replays regarding sports calls? One of the machines in one of the states was known to have switched votes from Biden to Trump. If it was truly fair why not be willing to prove it?

I think this will be my last response to you.