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Featured Evangelical Insurrectionists

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Windwalker, Jan 18, 2021.

  1. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    This video released yesterday by an imbedded war correspondent, capturing the insurrectionists storming the Capitol shows what happened inside with details. Riffling through senator's papers, saying "This is what Cruz would want us to do," and such. It is disturbing to say the least.

    Start watching the video at 5:25 where, while violating the chair of the Vice President, they lead the insurrectionists in a very Christian prayer, invoking the name of Jesus Christ. They all remove their hats, bow their heads, and some raising hands in worship to God for his hand in their violence that day.

    This sort of display is very much in line with the types of worship found commonly in right-wing Evangelical churches. Thanking God for them being on the right side, all the while violating the very core message of Jesus Christ to love your neighbor as yourself.

    I see this as the crowning moment of this movement within Evangelicalism which cast their lot in a deal with the devil. This is their shining moment. And it reveals the sickness and disease within it. IMO. Is there anything redeeming or Christian in any of this?

    "By their fruits, you shall know them," ~ Jesus

     
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  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Whether its that or prosperity gospel or what,
    American fundamentalists seem to me a blight
    on the nation.
     
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  3. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    I think it's great that these videos have surfaced. For one thing, it makes it utterly impossible for Republicans to pretend - as some are now trying to suggest - this was in any way a "false flag" operation by left wing agitators.

    I salute the bravery of those with the cameras. If anyone had worked out who they were, they would have been hospitalised. At best.
     
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  4. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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  5. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Evangelical/fundamental Xy has always been a breeding ground/impetus for white nationalism, due to its “God’s on our side”/black-and-white painting of the “truth,” abusing a multivalent set of texts with fanatical allegiance and narrow interpretations that serve specific needs. They abuse the Bible, not to inform themselves, but to bolster long-held beliefs.

    There is nothing redeeming, honest, valiant, or Christian about what is happening.

    God is not on their side. Reason, compassion, honesty, courage, and truth are not on their side.

    many Evangelical leaders are only now opening their eyes to how their bedding down with Trumpism has infected the truth of who snd what they are, and the evangelical movement is in huge crisis.
     
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  6. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    I've been trying to follow the fallout within evangelicalism -- there hasn't been a whole lot written. But from what I've been able to gather, the movement is split. Some of them have "repented" of their invovement with Trump, saying God has allowed his loss in the election to punish them for their arrogance. The others are battening down the hatches and digging in, and are furious with those who are turning against Trump.
     
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  7. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with that. Even if there were some evangelicals, all evangelicals and their beliefs can’t be judged by the actions of some few similarly as you wouldn’t allow all Muslims to be judged by terrorist act of few Muslims?

    Also, now the freedom of speech is destroyed, which means there is no true democracy anymore. If the Evangelicals where there to defend democracy and freedom, was it not right?

    What would you have thought if Trump and his supporters would have silenced Biden and all who support him? You would probably have thought they are Nazis? Why it is different when Biden and his group does that?

    It is interesting how Trump and his supporters are supposedly evil, all though it is the Trump haters who limit freedom of speech and act like Nazis or Communists.

    “If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.”
    George Washington

    “Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear."
    Harry S. Truman
     
  8. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    First of all, did you see the neo-Nazi flags? Did you see the gallows and noose? Did you see insurrectionists rifling through desks, taking pictures of documents? Did you know that they evacuated and defecated in the offices? Did you see all the “Jesus 2020” banners? Did you see the Bibles being carried as they were breaking in? Do you remember the baseless lies and conspiracy theories? This was not simply a “Christian opposition voice.” This was anarchy, sedition, snd insurrection. They were right to shut Trump down on social media. They were right to shut down Parler (although it is back up, being hosted in Russia — what does that tell you? Patriots? Decent Christian folk? Srrsly?

    Second, freedom of speech only applies to the fact that the federal government cannot curtail one’s speech. It does not extend to private companies, like Twitter, Amazon, and Facebook.

    Third, I heard a leader of the Southern Baptist Convention (the largest evangelical body) say on NPR that the church’s leadership had supported Trump, but that now they knew that his actions and policies did not express evangelical morals, that they feared for their reputation as a valid Christian expression, and that there was deep division in their ranks.

    I stand by my comments.
     
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  9. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    No, but I saw BLM and democrat supporters there.

    Yes, that mock noose that could not have been used really for hanging, I have seen. And it is really disturbing when it is used as evidence for something evil. That is one reason why main stream media has no credibility anymore. If it would have some proper thoughts, it would not need to make up stuff so clumsily. It is weird how they can have any viewers at this point.

    I didn’t see anything worse than what happened in earlier White House shooting, or in the BLM/”antifa” riots that have been going on long time. The double standard people seem to have with all these “demonstrations” is astonishing.

    Trump Led From Briefing Room After a Shooting Outside the White House

    Doesn’t really mean much.

    No.

    No.

    I disagree with that and I think you are spreading conspiracy theory.

    And personally, I think no one should lose freedom of speech, even if I would disagree with them. It is difficult to claim moral high ground, if you act like totalitarian fascist.

    It is also amazing how things have turned out. Previously Russia was evil communist country without freedom of speech, now it is western world that is under communist (to be more specific, collectivist oligarchy) regime without freedom of speech. It is quite sickening to see western world in such low state. And unfortunately, now things seem to get even worse fast.

    That would be nice argument, if those would not claim to be only platforms. Now that they are the government, it is truly sad thing, if you are a person who supports free world.

    I would like to know one example of his action and policy that is against their morals.
     
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  10. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I find it "really disturbing" that this doesn't seem to bother you. If I put such a mock noose in front of your house, would you been so nonchalant about it?

    "False equivalency". When happened on January 6th was an attempt to overthrow the government so as to make Trump our dictator. If you don't believe this, then why did they do it after being told by both Trump and Giuliani to go ahead by being "wild" and using "force"?

    These are private companies.

    I don't believe Christ would approve of your lack of concern over what happened and why it happened, especially since people were killed and much damage done to the Capitol also with the intent of subverting what the people had chosen in the election.

    BTW, BLM is not a violent organization per their charter, but antifa might be possibly labeled as such by some except that they have no formal leadership nor a charter. However, we know some of them have indeed used violence, destruction, and theft.

    When demonstrations occur, sometimes some people try and take advantage of the situation. But, according to a study by Columbia University, 93% of these demonstrations were basically peaceful.
     
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  11. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Seriously????? Your answer is disturbing. There were no BLM signs. What do democrat supporters look like? There were no signs that supported democrats. On the flip side, there were confederate flags and auschwitz t-shirts in plain sight.
     
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  12. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Then you weren’t looking. There were no BLM and Democrat supporters storming into the Capitol.

    It’s disturbing that this doesn’t disturb you, and that you hand-wave it all away, as if no one was chanting for the VP to be executed.

    False equivalency. Six people died, and there have been over 200 cases filed against the insurrectionists.

    Really? Defecating in someone’s office is a Christian thing to do?

    Then you disagree with the rule of law. Also not a Christian virtue.
    It’s not a first amendment issue. These are PRIVATE companies. They can set any rules about speech they want.

    It’s quite sickening to see Christians advocating this kind of thing.

    See above. These companies are not the government.

    I’ll give you several:
    1) grabbing women by the p***y without consent
    2) separating children from their families
    3) sedition
    4) threatening government officials
    5) nepotism
    6) lying to the American public
     
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  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    But for those who only get their "news" from the likes of Fox and Newsmax, ...
     
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  14. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    They are when they can silence the opposition and so essentially can decide who will be "elected".

    Sorry, I have no reason to think those are the policies Trump supports. If you claim trump supports those, please show evidence for that.
     
  15. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    I find it really disturbing, if you don’t see it a problem that opposition is silenced.

    If I see a mock noose, I wouldn’t think it is a serious threat.

    It seems to me that it was done to take a way any chance from Trump to speak about the election fraud. It was not an attempt to overthrow the government and to set Trump as a dictator. That is very silly belief.

    Those who died were probably the only real Trump supporters there. But, make no mistake, I think it was not good thing. All evidence indicates it was arranged by supporters of democrats to get rid of Trump permanently. Reason why I think so is that Trump didn’t support anything like that and didn’t really give any reason to do so, for his real supporters. The whole event served only "democrats". So, there is no intelligent reason to think it was from real Trump supporters, or that it was really an attempt from them to overthrow government.

    By what I know, people were let in easily, which is also one reason to think it was arranged false flag show. That mainstream media presents it as a real overthrowing attempt is ridiculous and should be enough reason for everyone to reject dishonest mainstream media.
     
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  16. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Nope. That’s not the definition of “government.” That’s the definition of “good business.”

    It’s all on video. Trump did say he grabbed women. Trump did have a policy of separating families. Trump is now impeached for sedition. What he said and what his supporters said is on video. Trump did threaten the Georgia officials in a recorded phone call. Trump’s children were on staff and used government funds even though they were not qualified. Trump lied about almost everything, especially about the election. It’s all on video.
     
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  17. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Oh! So people should be allowed by the platforms to organize a crime and threaten the lives of government officials? This is not a banana republic. If that’s what you’d prefer, there are many from which to choose. I choose to live in a democracy free of conspiracy theory.

    See above. Oh! And even Trump’s Atty Gen said there was no election fraud. No evidence. None. Zero. I notice that he wasn’t making a noise about Republican candidates who were elected on those same “fraudulent” ballots.

    Conspiracy theory. The people they’ve arrested thus far are ALL Trump supporters

    Yeah. He lied again — said “we” were going to march up to the Capitol, then retired to the green room to watch the shenanigans on TV. If he hadn’t meant to do what he did, he would have immediately denounced it. He did not.

    Watch. The. Videos.
     
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  18. Socratic Berean

    Socratic Berean Occasional thinker, perpetual seeker

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    ...just another indicator of the extent of biblical illiteracy in the church today (as was so-called Christian nationalists turning a blind eye to POTUS’ elevation to national levels of recognition individuals who are, by scriptural and orthodox interpretation, heretics and false prophets).
     
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I never mentioned anything about anyone being "silenced", so all you have done here is to go to a genuinely disingenuous step to create a strawman.

    IOW, the above is an example of "bearing false witness".

    You state "election fraud" as if it is a fact, whereas even the Republicans in the contested states that monitored the elections said there was not enough evidence to suggest that there was enough "fraud" to change the results of the election. Even Barr stated that the election results were valid.

    You simply don't understand what was being done and why, whereas even many Republicans in Congress have stated that what Trump and many of his followers were doing was legally and morally unethical and unacceptable.

    What do you use for "news"? Even the congressional Republicans ain't saying the above nonsense.

    You simply are not connecting the dots.

    "Nice" stereotype. Do you do this often?

    I don't know what you are using for "news", but let me highly recommend that you start checking other sources and doing research instead of blindly believing in what some politically-partisan source appears to be telling you.
     
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  20. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    If you were a black man and you saw a burning cross on your front lawn, would you take that as a serious threat? Obviously, they couldn't actually use that cross to crucify someone, so why should that be taken as a threat? It's just a mock cross, a joke that shouldn't be taken as a serious threat, right?

    Same thing with chants to "Hang Mike Pence", under the shadow of a mock gallows. No one should take that seriously! What on earth where they thinking? That's not reasonable to take those things seriously. That is what you are arguing here, right?
     
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