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Eternal Life

atanu

Member
Premium Member
For those of you who believe in some sort of eternal existence, how do you envision your existence outside the window that lies between birth and death of the body/mind complex?
Did you exist before you were born? If so, in what capacity?
What will you exist as after your body/mind expire?
What parts of you will you retain and what falls away?

I admire the brilliant way you raise important questions. :thumbsup:

The following is my answer.

First, we have to decide whether we believe that there is nothing over and above the empirical mind-sense objects, or do we entertain any scope for the possibility that the ‘subject’ — one that knows the mind-senses and their objects is the progenitor of the mind-senses.

For me, the latter is given. The ‘Subject’ is the awareness itself that sees-knows the deep sleep, dream and waking states and their objects. It is called Self-Atman-Turiya-Brahman— the SUBJECT.

Rest all are objects that appear in three states: The gross (sthula sharira) waking body and the associated world; the subtle (sukshma sharira) mental dream world and the dream body; and the Causal (Karana sharira) deep sleep subjective consciousness of ‘not knowing any object’. The causal deep sleep universe has, unknown to mind-senses, the seeds of the subtle mental and gross waking state (physical) bodies, and their activities.

Although the above three bodies are not the ‘I’, there are mistaken associations with these objects and in 100% of cases, the subject (the seer-knower awareness, the self, the atman) is covered up by these objects.

If the subject is mistaken as the gross waking body, the lifetime is short. But in the background, the subtle body carries on as a 'mental stream' to inhabit newer dresses as long as the causal seeds in forms of desire are not destroyed.

On the other hand, if the wisdom arises "I am not the body and the body is not mine. I am the awareness that is aware of and connects the three planes of waking, dreaming, and sleeping", the birth-death cycle becomes meaningless. The birth-death cycle pertains to the objects and not to 'ME'.
....

So. In this view, as awareness I was never non-existent and the seeds of desire and their manifestations (which are not me), have ever been playing on in the awareness.

...
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Which voice or voices do you speak of here? Which monkey mind? Explain please.


Well. Most of us have various internal monologues going on, with imaginary interlocutors. We also have thoughts, quite often unwelcome thoughts, which arrive in our minds unbidden. Sometimes we become attached to the negative thoughts and are unable to let them go; other times, we nurse, feed, and water those thoughts with which we are best pleased.

If your mental activity is more in the latter than former category - ie you rehearse positive thoughts rather than being troubled by negative ones - you are in a happier position than much of the human race. But most of us vascilate between the two. But that voice inside your head, the one you think is you talking to yourself? It’s not you. It’s a function of the ego, and you are not your ego.

These ideas are common to a variety of spiritual traditions, and are compatible with Buddhism, Christianity, Sufi practice, and probably most others too. There are also secular, agnostic, even atheist schools dedicated to following a process whereby the practitioner sheds layers of false self.

Don’t know if you’re familiar with the philosopher Eckhart Tohle? His book “The Power of Now” is worth a read. Much of Tohle’s philosophy chimes with quotes from @Vouthon ‘s posts above, and also with Taoist and Zen principles.

“No thought is mine” is a line from Tohle, but it’s not necessarily original.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
For those of you who believe in some sort of eternal existence, how do you envision your existence outside the window that lies between birth and death of the body/mind complex?
mind/body/spirit complex. the earthly body is transformed into the ethereal body. the corporal body is only maintained for the earthly existence and then released to form the body necessary for existence without the earthly experience

Did you exist before you were born?
that part which is eternal, is life, always existed in some form/energy.

If so, in what capacity?
mind/body/spirit complex

What will you exist as after your body/mind expire?
information doesn't expire.



What parts of you will you retain and what falls away?
the form that has evolved in relationship to its environment here will no longer be necessary. a new form will be generated, maybe not so dense as to be perceptible to the earthly observer.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
For those of you who believe in some sort of eternal existence, how do you envision your existence outside the window that lies between birth and death of the body/mind complex?

Did you exist before you were born? If so, in what capacity?

What will you exist as after your body/mind expire?

What parts of you will you retain and what falls away?
I believe in the promise of the Bible that all who trust Jesus Christ as their Savior and have eternal life will be raised from the dead and have an incorruptible, glorified eternal body as Jesus now has. (1 Corinthians 15:42; 52-54;1 John 3:2)

Missing will be any infirmities and imperfections.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
For those of you who believe in some sort of eternal existence, how do you envision your existence outside the window that lies between birth and death of the body/mind complex?

Did you exist before you were born? If so, in what capacity?

What will you exist as after your body/mind expire?

What parts of you will you retain and what falls away?

I believe I was a Russian peasant in a previous life.

I believe my spirit will move on from the body.

I believe the sex drive will be removed since there is no need for children. I believe the aging process will be removed. I believe all memory of evil will be removed.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I've posted this several times before but it answers the questions in the OP. We as "drop souls" are born out of the ocean of divinity, evolve in a broader sense by assuming gas forms, stone, metal, animal and finally human form. We reincarnate over and over again until we've experienced everything and then enter into the spiritual path of involution before finally merging our drops once again in the ocean from which we were born.

creation.png

I believe tht tkes a lot of imagination and most of it illogical.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Why do you think so? I have sinned. I am a non-believer, not just for the Abrahamic God but also for Dharmic Gods. Who will save me?


If there is a hell, I doubt if it’s eternal. There are schools of Christian thought whereby even Satan will be redeemed if he repents.

Is there a Hindu hell? In Tibetan (?) Buddhism, I have read, hell is a temporary plane into which souls may be reborn, but they do not remain there permanently.

Besides, if there is a hell, I’d be surprised to find you there. If we are to be judged, don’t you think it will be for our actions, not our beliefs? I doubt your karma is that bad, you seem a decent sort of chap; you seem to love your family, and I bet you treat others with courtesy and kindness (probably not all the time, but who does?)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Is there a Hindu hell?

Besides, if there is a hell, I’d be surprised to find you there. If we are to be judged, don’t you think it will be for our actions, not our beliefs? I doubt your karma is that bad, you seem a decent sort of chap; you seem to love your family, and I bet you treat others with courtesy and kindness (probably not all the time, but who does?)
Ah, we have 28 of them. The idea of 'One' just does not rhyme with Hinduism. Many Gods, many heavens. :)
Yes, normally one makes a return from hell, but there may be some no-return hells also depending upon one's sins. Raurava, Kumbhipaka, I think, are among the dangerous ones.
Yeah, I think even if I land in a hell (surely, that won't be nice), but I may be able to make a return. I have not killed or raped anyone.

"The Bhagavata Purana, the Vishnu Purana and the Devi Bhagavata Purana enlist and describe 28 hells; however, they end the description by stating that there are hundreds and thousands of hells. The Bhagavata Purana enumerates the following 28: Tamisra, Andhatamisra, Raurava, Maharaurava, Kumbhipaka, Kalasutra, Asipatravana, Sukaramukha, Andhakupa, Krimibhojana, Samdamsa, Taptasurmi, Vajrakantaka-salmali, Vaitarani, Puyoda, Pranarodha, Visasana, Lalabhaksa, Sarameyadana, Avichi, Ayahpana, Ksharakardama, Raksogana-bhojana, Sulaprota, Dandasuka, Avata-nirodhana, Paryavartana and Suchimukha."
Naraka (Hinduism) - Wikipedia
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I have no desire to lose myself either and I don't think that is what will ever happen, in this life or the next life.
In the afterlife, we only become more of who we were in this life.
I want to know about God because that is in my best interest, but I have no interest in merging with God.
Nobody ever merges with God because God is inaccessible. That is just a sentiment some mystics have.
I do not think there is any God other than in religious beliefs, just like there being an afterlife. No evidence for either even in Bahaollah's writings.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
I want to know about God because that is in my best interest, but I have no interest in merging with God.
Nobody ever merges with God because God is inaccessible. That is just a sentiment some mystics have.
It depends how you see merging. Merging can be becoming close to God, becoming like Him. Merging in the sense of literally becoming part of God is impossible.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
It depends how you see merging. Merging can be becoming close to God, becoming like Him. Merging in the sense of literally becoming part of God is impossible.
I have no interest in merging with God by becoming close to God because of all the pain He has caused me.
I cannot see that changing but anything is possible. I do not see why I have to make the first move, I consider that unfair and unloving Christians don't believe that, they believe God loves them and comes after them. Only Baha'is believe we have to make the first move or else God just abandons us. You know where this comes from, but for anyone who wants to know where this comes from:

5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

What is this? God became an elitist in this new age? I think something is bad at black rock because God just doesn't do an about face and set different parameters. God is unchanging. So either the Christians are wrong or the Baha'is are wrong.
 
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PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
For those of you who believe in some sort of eternal existence, how do you envision your existence outside the window that lies between birth and death of the body/mind complex?

Did you exist before you were born? If so, in what capacity?

What will you exist as after your body/mind expire?

What parts of you will you retain and what falls away?
Good old ultimate questions. I don't know the answers. I assume all comes from some kind of infinite potential and evolves through different forms. The process may be a) an endless progression, b) ending in final completion (merging), c) cycling through ever new progressions and completions...
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Maybe so, but the problem is that hardly any Christians understand what resurrection means, as this Christian does:
421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Yes, the spirit (IT) returns to God who gave 'IT". - Ecclesiastes 12:7
Like a foreclosed house does Not move or go anywhere but is ' returned ' to the owner.
God is the the Owner of ones's spirit (IT) and that 'spirit of life' (IT) is returned on Resurrection Day.
Death being the opposite of being alive -> John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5.
In the Bible ALL the resurrections that Jesus performed where happy-and-healthy physical resurrections.
This is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection....
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
Well, maybe. Or maybe not:

In the beginning was The Word
One word only.
One means one.
One O GOD as GODD to GODD into OO was inferred as the spirit in creation unnamed as God was inferred everything within creation creating......spiral G moving upon the face of the spatial great deep into and owner O on mass one also with water one word. One meaning how creation evolved to become held and fixed.

One as described by the multi word thinker human. The theist. The scientist.

Human.

No thing existed before man did as claim the consciousness that identified observed creation. Dominion owner.
 

Truthseeker

Non-debating member when I can help myself
I have no interest in merging with God by becoming close to God because of all the pain He has caused me.
I cannot see that changing but anything is possible. I do not see why I have to make the first move, I consider that unfair and unloving Christians don't believe that, they believe God loves them and comes after them. Only Baha'is believe we have to make the first move or else God just abandons us. You know where this comes from, but for anyone who wants to know where this comes from:

5: O SON OF BEING! Love Me, that I may love thee. If thou lovest Me not, My love can in no wise reach thee. Know this, O servant.
The Hidden Words of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 4

What is this? God became an elitist in this new age? I think something is bad at black rock because God just doesn't do an about face and set different parameters. God is unchanging. So either the Christians are wrong or the Baha'is are wrong.
I don't think we really know what loving God is. Is loving justice loving God? Is loving mercy loving God? My answer, my opinion, is that if we love things like this we are loving God because these are God's attributes. The same is true with all the attributes of God. Food for thought.
 
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