Enough!

[Shiranui117]

I wonder if they were signed?


The Bible says it will happen in one day.

"This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength" (2 Thess 1:6-9)

"True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance; but now he is declaring to all people everywhere that they should repent. 31 Because he has set a day on which he purposes to judge the inhabited earth in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and he has provided a guarantee to all men by resurrecting him from the dead.” (Acts 17:30, 31)

“When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left." (Matt 25:31-33)

Jesus used the days of Noah as an example of how quickly God can act after a long period of warning. (Matt 24:36-39; 24:42)

You are either on board the spiritual ark or you are outside it complaining or ridiculing.
You are either in Babylon the great or out of it.
You are either a sheep or a goat.
From God's viewpoint the world is divided only into two camps....which one we are found in is determined by the choices we make freely by the exercise of our own will. :yes:


An honest person would be up front and declare their opposition openly. You hide behind your anonymity. If the elders knew the kinds of things you post, you would be disfellowshipped. You know it, so are are you honest? Do you have the courage of your convictions?
You do not behave like an honest person.


That someday may be closer than you think. Remember, it was not Noah who closed the door of the ark.

In Israel, those who opposed the leaders that God put in charge of his people were dealt with very harshly. (Numbers 16) The chosen ones did not have to be perfect....they just had to be obedient and follow the instructions that they were given...not deviating 'to the right or to the left', which meant not allowing their own thoughts to become more important than God's instructions.

We are told to 'be obedient to those taking the lead' among us as God's people....to whom are apostate ex-JW's obedient? Who is keeping watch over their souls? (Heb 13:7, 17)

All the garbage about JW's posted on the net is just that. Disgruntled people with an axe to grind, making allegations based on one side of a very biased story. Funny how people can make serious judgments about things without the whole story. What if judges in court did that? We will be judged on the basis of how we judge others.

Those who have left us have nowhere to go and nothing to say except to spew the poison that is designed to make them look like innocent victims of those big bad JW's.

I think it is sobering to recall the kinds of things that must have been said about Jesus and his apostles by the apostate Jews to whom they were sent.
They must have swallowed the propaganda put out by opposers, hook, line and sinker because when Jesus was before Pilate, (who found him innocent of their charges) they chanted for his execution, and confidently cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25) They got their wish. (Prov 16:18)

Jesus told us to expect the same. (John 15:19, 20) People would hate us but some would also listen to us in spite of the slander and opposition.


Matthew 7:21-23 tells us what happens to those who think they are "doing the will of God"....but are not.

Anyone who believes that the blame rests solely on the other party is, as a rule of thumb, wrong. If you believe that the governing body never at fault and that they have never committed sins against anyone, you need to seriously reevaluate how you look at the governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Thruve]

Ask them if they believe they are included in the 144,000 thats to be raptured. Thats what my dad tells them o-o

 

[Smart_Guy]

OH! I have seen your picture. Yes, I very nice fantasy! Those eyes! Can I stare at you?

Oh, gosh...

Savage! Stop chatting up innocent young members!
He's only a baby.......... (Me? Jealous? Never! )

Oh, now I'm an innocent egg

(she's probably talking about the handsome attractive me in the albums in my profile)

 

[savagewind]

Funny!

I'd like to reiterate the question. Are the governing body members their words or are they men, just like us?

On forum it is permissable to criticize other posters ideas but not their person. The govening body of Jehovah's Witnesses aren't even here (I suppose) to criticize and I wouldn't anyway. I have asked multiple times for proof of the JWs accusations (many they are) that I have criticized those men. No evidence is forthcoming. That is what I want. Please.

 

[JayJayDee]

Anyone who believes that the blame rests solely on the other party is, as a rule of thumb, wrong. If you believe that the governing body never at fault and that they have never committed sins against anyone, you need to seriously reevaluate how you look at the governing body of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I don't recall saying that human beings can never be wrong. God's ancient servants made mistakes (sometimes very serious ones) but most corrected their error and moved forward. Those who didn't, were dealt with by Jehovah.

Jesus own apostles were wrong sometimes too....we cannot expect perfection from human beings in this system. Jesus did not hold Peter's actions against him, nor did he castigate Thomas for his lack of faith. David too, sinned in major ways. Moses did the wrong thing and never got to enter the promised land. It doesn't stop their words from guiding us to this day.

I am saying that those who have stormed off in a huff over something a human did to them are not behaving as Christ would have recommended.

If someone steps on my toe, I will not respond by going out and committing suicide. Even if someone beat me up, I would not still end my life on account of what another misguided human has done to me. "Vengeance is mine, I will repay says Jehovah". If we believe that, we will wait on him to fix what is wrong....unless of course our injustice is more important to God than the serious stuff that is going on in many nations at present. Gaining some perspective on the importance of our own issues in the scheme of things, may be a good idea.

God has appointed one slave to feed the household of Christ's' disciples. We are not told to feed anywhere else nor are we told to feed ourselves. It is our choice to leave the table for whatever reason. We will also reap the consequences of that choice.

If we don't believe that the actions of men (either in ignorance or on purpose) has caused harm in our brotherhood, we would be fooling ourselves. We just have to realise that there are two sides to every story and let God sort out the problems. Do we believe that he will do that? Or do we believe that we must be our own saviours in this situation?

To those who have their noses out of joint over an unresolved issue, I would say this.....
It isn't that we believe that the governing body are perfect and never make mistakes...it's that we wait on Jehovah to correct things in his own due time. Sometimes it just an extra clarification. This happens in view of Prov 4:18.
Those of us who patiently and humbly wait on Jehovah are not spiritually lost with nowhere to go and yelling our heads off because we left the table and now we are hungry and out it the cold.

The ones who stick with Jehovah (as part of the only united global brotherhood on earth who do what we do,) are the ones who are still out preaching the good news in all the inhabited earth, like all Christians are admonished to do....do you see ex-JW's doing that? If not...why not? Why are those who have left us so filled with hate? Isn't it because they want things done their way and like petulant and impatient children, they want it done now? Jehovah will see that justice is served in his due time. Those who jump ship before that is accomplished will find themselves swimming with the sharks. There is no safety in numbers.

 

[s2a]

I don't recall saying that human beings can never be wrong. God's ancient servants made mistakes (sometimes very serious ones) but most corrected their error and moved forward. Those who didn't, were dealt with by Jehovah.

Which is a secret of course....

Jesus own apostles were wrong sometimes too....we cannot expect perfection from human beings in this system. Jesus did not hold Peter's actions against him, nor did he castigate Thomas for his lack of faith. David too, sinned in major ways. Moses did the wrong thing and never got to enter the promised land. It doesn't stop their words from guiding us to this day.

Cool, we humans are prone to error. Even apostles. So what...whatever any apostles have to say are, at best,ridden with human error. Yes? Where then are we to find "truth" resident in the transcriptions riddled in such human errors?.

I am saying that those who have stormed off in a huff over something a human did to them are not behaving as Christ would have recommended.

OK. Is that on His Facebook page then?

If someone steps on my toe, I will not respond by going out and committing suicide. Even if someone beat me up, I would not still end my life on account of what another misguided human has done to me. "Vengeance is mine, I will repay says Jehovah". If we believe that, we will wait on him to fix what is wrong....unless of course our injustice is more important to God than the serious stuff that is going on in many nations at present. Gaining some perspective on the importance of our own issues in the scheme of things, may be a good idea.

Cool. So, Jehovah is the only agent from which we might see to any exacted justice here. So, murder "in His name" will eventually be sorted out in the "hereafter. "Human "laws" are therefore pointless. I begin to understand...

God has appointed one slave to feed the household of Christ's' disciples. We are not told to feed anywhere else nor are we told to feed ourselves. It is our choice to leave the table for whatever reason. We will also reap the consequences of that choice.

I will then fairly assume that NO members of your church would ever even PRESUME to know, or even speak to the ultimate motives of "god". Everyone deserves fair treatment, unless YOUR "god' says otherwise. Of course, you must "hear" that decree first.

If we don't believe that the actions of men (either in ignorance or on purpose) has caused harm in our brotherhood, we would be fooling ourselves. We just have to realise that there are two sides to every story and let God sort out the problems. Do we believe that he will do that? Or do we believe that we must be our own saviours in this situation?

Kinda yeah, which may explain why mankind enacts laws and consequences that may or may not fall within the supernatural "jurisdictions" of any claimed "god". And also why, sometimes...there are NOT "two sides to every argument". That is BS propaganda seeking equality where none exists. Point in fact: The Earth is NOT flat. Not now, not ever was, ever. There is NO advocacy of any legitimacy that argues otherwise. NONE.

False equivalency. Look it up. :_

To those who have their noses out of joint over an unresolved issue, I would say this.....
It isn't that we believe that the governing body are perfect and never make mistakes...it's that we wait on Jehovah to correct things in his own due time. Sometimes it just an extra clarification. This happens in view of Prov 4:18.
Those of us who patiently and humbly wait on Jehovah are not spiritually lost with nowhere to go and yelling our heads off because we left the table and now we are hungry and out it the cold.

Ahem...but is not the purpose of any "faith" is a profound belief that "god" is the ultimate arbiter of "truth"? Is there any doubt remaining that "god" could be wrong?

The ones who stick with Jehovah (as part of the only united global brotherhood on earth who do what we do,) are the ones who are still out preaching the good news in all the inhabited earth, like all Christians are admonished to do....do you see ex-JW's doing that? If not...why not?

Perhaps an newly enlightened perspective? I'm an "atheist" and "preach" to no one. If some find an alternative understanding of the cosmos, why should someone like you question their motivations or change of heart and mind? Maybe some ex-JWs are inclined to leave you entirely removed from any further "discussions". Just a thought...

Why are those who have left us so filled with hate?

Source? I don't believe your claim. Is there a reliable measure of "hate" that JW adherents employ to validate their positions? ANY? Even if/when producible is any of that repeatedly verifiable? ANY?.

Isn't it because they want things done their way and like petulant and impatient children, they want it done now?

Maybe. Who might we point to that insist such things?

Jehovah will see that justice is served in his due time. Those who jump ship before that is accomplished will find themselves swimming with the sharks. There is no safety in numbers.

Uh huh.

In the mean time, we may choose to abide by strict adherence to religious laws akin to the Taliban or Sharia law...or retain some lasting "belief" in the laws enacted by "free" men.

Only when a "free" people can choose to accept or ignore wearing specific caps, or hats, or poorly groomed facial hair...or skirt lengths, or beekeeper outfits, can we then be permitted to accept our own chosen destinies of any faith-based beliefs.

Until then, the rest of us may take our chances amongst those sharks.

 

[JayJayDee]

Until then, the rest of us may take our chances amongst those sharks.

That is of course your choice.
You can believe or disbelieve whatever you wish. That is the point. We all do what our own hearts lead us to do. God reads hearts, not lips or actions.

We will all ultimately be caught in the act of being ourselves.

We are not who "we" think we are....we are who "God" thinks we are....and that is the difference. :sad:

 

[oldbadger]

I don't recall saying that human beings can never be wrong. God's ancient servants made mistakes (sometimes very serious ones) but most corrected their error and moved forward. Those who didn't, were dealt with by Jehovah.

I am amazed at the stories of deceit and corruption committed by people who are classed as God's servants. The phrase 'corrected their error and moved forward' begins to look like 'continuous and regular forgiveness'.

Jesus own apostles were wrong sometimes too....we cannot expect perfection from human beings in this system. Jesus did not hold Peter's actions against him, nor did he castigate Thomas for his lack of faith.

Oh...... the fuss we make over Peter's temporary terror! The big deal we make over Thomas's caution.....

David too, sinned in major ways.

You must be referring to that tyrant, corrupted by power, who sent his best mate to certain death so that he could have that man's wife. Tip of the iceberg?

I am saying that those who have stormed off in a huff over something a human did to them are not behaving as Christ would have recommended.

Look at it this way....... Savage has entered your temple, turned over benches and challenged authorities. I seem to remember that Jesus did that...... He also challenged the Jewish GBs. He often stormed ..... in a huff.

 

[savagewind]

I am amazed at the stories of deceit and corruption committed by people who are classed as God's servants. The phrase 'corrected their error and moved forward' begins to look like 'continuous and regular forgiveness'.

YES! Thank you. They are living a lie. They say everyone who has left did so because of what was done to them. I suffered a very long time with their imperfect human doctrines. Most particularly the admonition "Sundays are for MEETINGS" do not miss any Sunday meeting. They really say "you do not know if Armageddon might come while away [perhaps you are on your family outing] and dirrections given at the meetings will save your life, but you are not there". Also, I knew almost from the very start (so I suffered this for twenty years) that their practice of reporting time spent preaching was what should I say? Unworldly? Ridiculous? They had a fine reason though. Really! "How will we know where to send the brothers where help is needed?" If the Greek scriptures did not have their back with that I might have walked away day one. Too bad I didn't?

The camel's back was broken when I heard it from the brother's own mouth "we must obey man" rather than [God]. He didn't say God, I did. He wouldn't dare. They are either all stupid (this seems implausable) or they are mostly cowards. How so? They say they listen to God but won't admit publicly that it is the faithful and discreet slave (the men) they listen to. That is why I left. It is a nightmare to me that people are able to believe men can take the place of YHVH.

continuous and regular forgiveness

I understand what this means. It is their job to be forgiving the organizers of them. They won't call those men "leaders" because the Bibles say Jesus is leader. They hear God say "if you are nice to them I will be nice to you". They use the parable of the sheep and the goats to prove it. They are being trained to treat those men thoughly as Jesus' equal. I did not leave when I suspected this, I suspected it for awhile. I might still be there (Oh God!) if the appointed elder had not said it himself. Because the truth they obey men came from an appointed one I could not stay. I didn't even consider leaving, I just did.

 

[JayJayDee]

I am amazed at the stories of deceit and corruption committed by people who are classed as God's servants. The phrase 'corrected their error and moved forward' begins to look like 'continuous and regular forgiveness'.

Forgiveness was always granted when repentance was demonstrated, so God's forgiveness was 'continuous and regular' when his people were genuinely sorry for allowing sin to get the mastery over them. We all sin regularly. (Rom 5:12)

Oh...... the fuss we make over Peter's temporary terror! The big deal we make over Thomas's caution.....

I don't recall any fuss. All I recall is Peter's bitter tears when he realised that he had promised to follow Jesus into death if necessary, and then denied knowing him. Fear of man was Peter's weakness. It was forgiven him and he overcame it, as Jesus knew he would.

The "doubting Thomas" is remembered to this day. It did not mean the loss of his position as an apostle and one of the foundation stones of God's kingdom. It was a human weakness. We have to know the difference between weakness and wickedness.....God does.

You must be referring to that tyrant, corrupted by power, who sent his best mate to certain death so that he could have that man's wife. Tip of the iceberg?

Bathsheba's husband was not a "best mate" of David's, but he was a righteous man whose life was cut short in an attempt to cover up David's adultery. Bathsheba was the mother of Solomon, so God forgave David his son became one of the wisest men in Israel. We still benefit from reading his Proverbs and his wisdom in the book of Ecclesiastes.

God's servants were imperfect and He made allowance for their shortcomings, but only if they were contrite and willing to change their ways. He did not exempt them from punishment however.

Look at it this way....... Savage has entered your temple, turned over benches and challenged authorities. I seem to remember that Jesus did that...... He also challenged the Jewish GBs. He often stormed ..... in a huff.

No, that is not the case OB. SW is not Jesus Christ and has no authority to turn over any tables, nor to challenge the teachings of those whom God has placed in positions of oversight. There is one slave appointed to "feed" Jesus' sheep....SW is not that slave. She is free to walk away, but prefers to stand outside the door hurling accusations against those who have a legitimate right to teach. She has no such right.

She has the prerogative to leave the "table" and go and find another group of Christians with whom she shares some agreement. That is extremely difficult for ex JW's to do. When you have dismantled Christendom's teachings, there is really nowhere else to go. How can they go back to Christendom, when they can no longer accept their teachings. This, I believe, is why they become so angry. None of them it seems can start their own "church".

There was only one ark constructed by Noah. (Matt 24:36-39) Anyone who jumped off didn't have an option of catching the next ark....there weren't any.

We all have choices, so we need to make then with full knowledge. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[oldbadger]

No, that is not the case OB. SW is not Jesus Christ and has no authority to turn over any tables, nor to challenge the teachings of those whom God has placed in positions of oversight. There is one slave appointed to "feed" Jesus' sheep....SW is not that slave. She is free to walk away, but prefers to stand outside the door hurling accusations against those who have a legitimate right to teach. She has no such right.

She has the prerogative to leave the "table" and go and find another group of Christians with whom she shares some agreement. That is extremely difficult for ex JW's to do. When you have dismantled Christendom's teachings, there is really nowhere else to go. How can they go back to Christendom, when they can no longer accept their teachings. This, I believe, is why they become so angry. None of them it seems can start their own "church".

Nor did Jesus..... have authority to breach peace, demonstrate and picket the Temple over two days...... As with other insurrectionists Pilate had him executed.

On another note, yes, Savage could leave your table..... has left your table, and her heart has found its way here to RF. This happened to me but not with the JWs. In the early 70a I found a beautiful group of people and joined their faith, only to discover (as new translations were released) that the beauty that I had 'seen' was something deeply distressing and dreadful to many. I left, very upset. 34 years I found RF, and it was not long before I told that group what I thought. You can imagine what that group thinks of me..... :yes:..... but it got 'it' out of my system, and now I feel calm about what upset me so long ago.

It is my personal belief that Savage is somewhere near that situation now. I hope (you could pray?) that Savage finds exactly what she seeks, and soon will come to peace with all the world. There are pages and pages of web sites for ex JWs, and who knows, maybe some have built new churches? I print some below.

Where Else would I Go if I was to leave Jehovah's Witnesses?
Facts about JW.org, the Watchtower, Jehovah's Witnesses and the Truth › interesting topics
is a key question that prevents Jehovah's Witnesses from leaving the religion, even ... If choosing a new church, speak to members and former members and ...
4Jehovah » Ex-Jehovahs Witness Stories
4jehovah.org/category/ex-jw/
Archive for the 'Ex-Jehovahs Witness Stories' Category ... I hadn't been brought up in church, but we always had a Bible around the house, so I tried to “be good” ...
Blog Archive » How can I as an Ex-Jehovah's Witness find a ...
4jehovah.org/how-can-i-as-an-ex-jehovahs-witness-find-a-place-to-wors...
I belong to Ex-Jehovah's Witness meetup groups both on the Internet locally. ... are encountering in Christian churches are not as far off from the teachings of the ...
Who are Ex-JWs? | Ex-Jehovah's Witnesses Online
ex-jw.com/about-ex-jws
To an average non-Witness, this approach by the Jehovah's Witnesses might be ... non-observant Jew, a former Catholic, or a non-church-going Protestant and ...

 

[savagewind]

God's servants were imperfect and He made allowance for their shortcomings, but only if they were contrite and willing to change their ways. He did not exempt them from punishment however.

One example of a contrite heart in any member of the governing body would be nice.

She has the prerogative to leave the "table" and go and find another group of Christians with whom she shares some agreement.

Who was fugured in Jesus' vision on the mountain? Elijah. Did Elijah seek "a group" to help him? Then Elijah said to them, "I am the only one of Jehovah's prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets.1 Kings 18:22
Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to envision the Word of God to help them. The only ones allowed to are the governing body.

That is extremely difficult for ex JW's to do.

This is information that is humanly impossible to know. Who told you it?

When you have dismantled Christendom's teachings, there is really nowhere else to go.

Oh! The organization for the saving of mankind has added an "a". And they told Hitler do not worry about discipline after you die. There won't be any.

How can they go back to Christendom, when they can no longer accept their teachings.

They can, and they do. I didn't but you keep on telling me a should "go find my group". LOL

This, I believe, is why they become so angry

Should we vote? Who is angry? Now I shall say something about the men of the governing body. They are.

None of them it seems can start their own church.

Religion is a snare and a racket. I am sure you are aware of it.

There was only one ark constructed by Noah. (Matt 24:36-39) Anyone who jumped off didn't have an option of catching the next ark....there weren't any

.The Bible tells of one ark. Yes that is true. Where did you hear about jumping off the ark? What does it mean please?

We all have choices, so we need to make then with full knowledge

Do you know there was a god fearing man who was a governing body member who was disfellowhiped for eating with his disfellowshippedd friend?

 

[savagewind]

The missing s shall stay missing. I think the elves like it that way.

 

[savagewind]

. She is free to walk away, but prefers to stand outside the door hurling accusations against those who have a legitimate right to teach. She has no such right.

This is amazing talk to me. I will yell.

I AM HURLING ACCUSATIONS AGAINST PEOPLE'S CUSTOM TO READ THE BIBLE THE WAY THEY WANT IT. I am warning people they better stop teaching it wrong. It is the same thing your organizers are doing. According to You it is alright for them but not for me. The reason why is they claim faithful and discreet slave status AND i DON'T. Even if I was stupid enough to too I would be smart enough to know it's not possible TO BE JESUS.

 

[savagewind]

To find the missing (oh sorry! Really I am) s I suppose you'll (that is you will) have to find it. HAHA!

 

[savagewind]

The boss wants me to say something incriminating and there you have it!

 

[savagewind]

Oxygen is good even though it has a y instead of an i.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I enjoy reading your posts by the way

 

[savagewind]

Thank you!

They proceed without proof saying things. Like for instance savagewind hurls accusations. I am asking (again) for proof of that accusation. I looked it up.

accusation: a charge of wrongdoing; imputation of guilt or blame.

They believe it is righteousness on their part to accuse Babylon the Great. I do NOT believe it is righteousness to accuse them of wrongdoing. I am not God to be able to say whose work is right and whose is wrong. Because I think I have always believed this then it is not possible that I have accused them. It seems I am wrong and I HAVE accused them. I would like proof. Please.

 

[Shak34]

Why are those who have left us so filled with hate?

Who is really projecting hate?

Watchtower March 15, 1986 pg. 15
"Like gangrene, apostate reasoning is nothing but quick spreading spiritual death."

Watchtower October 1, 1993 pg. 19
"Christians share Jehovah's feelings towards apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have made themselves God's enemies."

Watchtower July 1, 1994 pg. 12
"What would you expect from the table of demons? And while apostates....."

Watchtower July 15, 2011
"Well, apostates are mentally diseased."

Examining the scriptures daily August 18, 2011 pg. 83
"Like their father, Satan, apostates target people of integrity. No wonder servants of Jehovah avoid all contact with them."

So after reading all of that, The Watchtower Bible and Track Society seems to be saying that people who leave the organization are gangrenous speaking, mentally diseased people that eat from the table of demons with their father, Satan. They are also loathed and must be avoided. Wow, and who again is speaking hatefully? You talked about them spewing poison, but what most do is use Watchtowers words(poison) from the literature that is handed out.