Enough!

[savagewind]

Casting suspicions and doubt reminds us of who?

I don't know. Satan?

What was the cause of the Jews clamoring for Christ's execution? Someone must have made him appear to be very bad.

I think I'd like to say bad and stupid are not the same.

Propaganda is a powerful tool.....just ask the governments of this world how successful it is. :yes:

I shall ask you again. Please try and listen to yourself.

I thought maybe that there was a shred of possibility that your negative view might be lifted even a little...but no...you are determined to stick with your appraisal so there is no point in carrying on this conversation. You have chosen your position and that is all that matters at the end of the day. We have done our job. Have a nice life

I suspect you are talking to me. Thank you. And you too!

 

[Shak34]

Very well, it is apparent that my words are falling on deaf ears, you seem to be persistently trying to paint our brothers as some sort of spiritual mafia. If you wish to glean information from our opposers you are welcome to do that. Believe as you wish. Just please produce an alternative that is even close to what JW's have, and do. There are no Christians who exist in isolation from fellow believers, and never was. So who are Christ's true disciples in this time of the end? The devil is never going to allow them to have 'good press'. (Matt 5:11)

Casting suspicions and doubt reminds us of who?

What was the cause of the Jews clamoring for Christ's execution? Someone must have made him appear to be very bad.

Propaganda is a powerful tool.....just ask the governments of this world how successful it is. :yes:

I thought maybe that there was a shred of possibility that your negative view might be lifted even a little...but no...you are determined to stick with your appraisal so there is no point in carrying on this conversation. You have chosen your position and that is all that matters at the end of the day. We have done our job. Have a nice life.

I am sorry you don't want to carry on the conversation any longer. I really enjoyed debating with you. Hopefully we can do it again on another subject sometime.:yes:

 

[savagewind]

I am hearing it from apostate websites that some people believe that if the governing body instructed it's followers to swallow a pill, they would. This imaginary scenerio was generated out of these words from the governing body.....

(This is about the future time which coincides with the Bible time of Micah.)

(3) At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. (Watchtower Nov 15, 2013, page 20)

Right away the Jehovah's Witness' critics said "they will make them drink the coolaid!", so you now will find on the internet people who say that they themselves are Jehovah's Witnesses write "if it came from Jehovah God, I would drink it".

I even met one apostate JW in person (I think I scared him away - too bad ) and he said the governing body might ask (Freudian slip - so sorry) tell them to commit suicide. Oh brother! So I said (because I am so very, very reasonable) Haha I think they might mean that when the modern day Assyrians say the preaching work is over don't believe them. It might seem sound that it is over from a human perspective as only family members are coming in (like all the other churches) and membership is taking a nosedive. But don't you believe it! Jehovah wants the preaching done until JEHOVAH says it is over. Remember that God The Father does sometimes speak from Heaven.

Matthew 17:5
While he was still speaking, a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"


So then NO stopping of the preaching until the govening body hears from Jehovah.

I think that is what they mean.

http://jwvictims.org/2014/01/22/yes-jehovahs-witnesses-would-literally-drink-the-kool-aid/

 

[`mud]

When reading the New Testament, and a lot of the Old Testament(It's real hard to read),
one question come to mind, why make changes in what already is deemed to be mythology.
Being a non-theist, I understand the beliefs, and the prayers and such, but why the changes ?
I think the changes are made for aquiring power over other followers, especially the women.
~
Oh well....I think I'll remain a non-theist, I don't need any changes,
I kinda like what Jesus tried to do, but your god acts a little savagely sometimes.
~
Forgive me for butting in, it had to be said, and Jay-Jay is leaving anyway.
~
'mud

 

[savagewind]

There is such a thing as an awake form of sleepiness. Jesus warned about it.

Rev 16:15 “Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one who stays awake and keeps his outer garments, so that he may not walk naked and people look upon his shamefulness.”

The religion of the Jehovah's Witnesses is about repeating over and over "the truth" that comes only from the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

This the lady might call slander but she can't say it isn't the truth. I understand apostates made the religion look bad, but I haven't yet read any real lies by them that can be called slander.

I have though read many lies that the governing body say I must trust and obey. Even though The Voice of God has said "listen to MY SON!". Which they have turned into "listen to whoever calls me Jehovah". I know how to call YHVH Jehovah but they can't listen because they are somehow hypnotised.

Their power comes from putting their people to sleep (spiritually). And they do a really great job of it.

Truthful sayings can't be called slander. Slander is lying about someone.

 

[savagewind]

We have given comprehensive answers, but you don't believe a single thing we say.

No so! First of all you have not answered the question how does the governing body know Jesus said that to make disciples is God's will as the scripture might mean to be disciples is God's will.

Second of all I believe much of what I learned being a Jheovah's Witness. Most of what I am convinced of came from there.

We will all be judged on what we believe

I don't think so. I think Jesus said we will be judged on what we say.

....but we must understand that our beliefs may not be true, no matter how sincere we are. The heart can be a betrayer and will get its own selfish way if we let it. (Matt 7:21-23; Jer 17:9)

I realize this but I fear you do not.

How twisted. It is not a book that belongs to Babylon the great, it is God's word....in a book that came down through history and, in the hands of Babylon the great, almost went out of existence. If not for the brave souls who had God's spirit and backing to preserve it, it may well have been lost in the cloistered monasteries of men who never served the God of the Bible in the first place.

Hm. Babylon twisted John 1:1 to suit herself but did Jehovah allow no other mistakes? I think YHVH has allowed other misunderstandings that YOU lean on. I am obeying the command "on uderstanding do not lean". I think you aren't.

It was not possible to have gotten lost. Anything God prophesies WILL come true no matter what. But it won't come true people's way, like the governing body teach.

So you believe I am capable of twisting scripture and Babylon is able to twist one of them but you do not believe Babylon the Great is also able to twist more than one. Illogical!

When it was time to clean up false worship, God sent his messengers into the world to correct his people. In the first century, Jesus was that messenger. In Israel's past, many messengers were used to give correction to God's people to let them know that they had corrupted his worship and that their conduct was unacceptable. Instead of allowing the words of those messengers to correct their error, they killed them in order to silence their stinging words. Nothing has changed. People today would still rather shoot the messenger than correct their erroneous thinking.

I think this is one reason the Jehovah's Witnesses will never be taken seriously by other disciples of Jesus Christ. To class God's son with all other messengers is some type of blasphemy I think.

The Christian arrangement was to have men were appointed to lead the congregations in worship. We are told to "be obedient" to such ones and to "submit" to their leadership. (Heb 13:17) The fact is, if one refuses to do that then one is not part of God's congregation for Christian worshippers.

Does someone who refuses to quit leaning on understanding aslo not a part of God's congregation of Christian Worshipper or are you a judge of scripture?

'Love among themselves'...being united in worship...being 'no part of the world'....and 'preaching the good news of God's kingdom in all the inhabited earth' is not a task for one person in isolation. Meeting together was required of God's worshippers.
The early Christians were grouped in congregations.
In the Revelation, Christ addresses the congregations, and holds them to account...he does not address individuals.

I do believe in the gathering together in agreement with all others who are being called to Jesus. It's spiritual. How are you convinced it is physical? My quote boxes are all mixed up now. God, you talk alot!
[/QUOTE]

 

[savagewind]

Hurling insults and casting aspersions on the role of men that God has appointed to shepherd his people was in times past viewed very negatively by God. So it is apparent that either God is acting contrary to his stated methods of the past or he has chosen individuals to operate independently of his organized people for some reason? I find no scripture to indicate that he has done this.

I am sure I am still begging for evidence I am hurling insults. Once I asked if disagreeing is insulting but you have not answered me.

.... you are insinuating that the word of God is contaminated because Christendom became contaminated. Not so.:no:

I don't believe in Christendom. You do. I believe the word of God became contaminated in line with prophesy. If I thought anyone reading cared which prophesies, I'd look them up.

Apparently the integrity of the Christian congregation was going to be lost forever in your estimations...and God's word along with it? Christendom did not produce the Bible. It was always God's word, just as it was in the hands of the faithless Pharisees. Their conduct did not invalidate it as the word of God.

Jesus is God's Word. You know that. Right? The Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses and the Christian congregation are not the same. If I believed the integrity of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses was lost forever I think I would not be disputing you. If you are lost forever what would be the point of bringing you back to reason?

It was foretold that a 'cleansing and refining' would take place and that 'insight' would be granted to faithful ones in "the time of the end". (Dan 12:9, 10)

It amazes me you trust those men to be faithful but you trust I am not faithful. I can understand you not trusting either of us but not one, not the other. How do you trust someone who has not endured to the end is beyond my comprehension.

I think I'm done. I might feel like asking you for evidence again sometime. But I have a feeling you will never see this post. And I worked so hard on it!

 

[savagewind]

They say I am twisting Hebrews 10:25 and doing so is slandering the govening body. So be it. They know there are some people (144,000 in fact) who will be granted a spiritual resurrection to be with Jesus Christ. I say Hebrews 10:25 is about them. They say Hebrews 10:25 is about meeting flesh with flesh. How do they know Hebrews 10:25 is about people gathering together in the flesh and not souls gathering together to YHVH?

Because I have a different interpretation than the governing body does it is surely ME who twists it up and not THEM who does. And I want to know why please.

 

[savagewind]

Why is it possible for ME to twist at lease twenty scriptures but it was never possible for those of Babylon the Great to do and heaven forbid! for the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses to do.

They once twisted the scipture about the superior authorities. They have said it is Jehovah and Jesus then not them but the secular authorities and now, even though they won't admit it, it is them as they have or will be (who knows?) appointed over ALL God's belongings.

John 10:12
The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.

But of course they thought of it so will go with "not forsaking the gathering together". They have scattered away from Jesus, the way the truth and the life but according to our friend Paul it doesn't LOOK like it!

 

[Thegreatdissapointment]

Hi there....I know this is a old thread....almost 5 years old...and I couldn’t stop reading it! Decided to take a chance, and post, maybe someone else will read this. I have a question I dare not ask anyone except someone who does not know me, or anyone related to me: I think it is a logical question, a normal “ thought process “ question...If the Governing Body of Jehovah’s witnesses are the “ mouthpiece of God, here on earth”, but also are self-admitted “ imperfect humans” who make mistakes, and sometimes have to “adjust their thinking” on a previously held “ truth”, because “ the light keeps getting brighter”( meaning, they had said previously that a belief that was held, or an understanding through Jehovah’s Holy Spirit that they had, needed an “ adjustment” , because basically, they were “ wrong”/misunderstood it, etc.).....would that also apply to the apostles, and the writers of the Bible, who, through Jehovah’s Holy Spirit, wrote the Bible,who were also imperfect men, very well could have misunderstood/got it wrong/made a mistake when writing it? By definition, both are claiming to “ speak for god”, so would it not be logical and correct, if the Governing body’s claim IS true, then there would almost certainly be mistakes in the Bible? And if not- then why would God make sure the writers of the Bible got it right the very first time,and it is perfect( as God himself is), yet, God’s sole channel, the only one, out o all the thousands of religions, and millions of people on the earth, this chosen group to “ represent Jehovah’s organization”, keep changing what they say “ Jehovah says”, can’t get it right the first time, and say it’s because “ the light keeps getting brighter”, and , that God just now revealed more of what it really meant, or God made it clearer so we would understand”, and no one ever addresses the followers who were disfellowshipped/punished for something that THEY said came from God-but oops...we misunderstood. Even saying “ they jumped ahead before God was ready to reveal a new understanding of a”old truth”? Then, is it not more logical to come to the conclusion that either the Bible is full of mistakes, or, the governing body of Jehovah’s witnesses is NOT being guided by Jehovah’s spirit, therefore, is NOT “ the truth”.? And, by this thought process, does this make me “ a mentally diseased apostate”, or, someone who is using critical thinking skills and reasoning like a normal person?( lol...whatever the definition of normal is, haha). I welcome all comments, both negative, positive, or another thought on this, that’s different. Thanks, if anyone out there took the time to read my ramble.