Enough!

[savagewind]

That is some good research thank you Shak.

It is a crime that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society accuses anyone who leaves them an apostate of Jehovah thus Jesus Christ also.

To equate leaving the organization with leaving Jehovah is them assuming they will endure to the end. For "he who has endured to the end will be saved". Matthew 24:13

And they do claim they will. They say the organization will be protected by God and the only group who will have God's protection.

Now that is assuming sinlessness. It means they believe an organization, their organization, can not fail.

Which is AMAZING because they know Israel was rejected. They believe they will (as an organization) never be rejected.

In her heart she boasts, 'I sit enthroned as queen. I am not a widow; I will never mourn.' Revelation 18:7

 

[oldbadger]

Watchtower July 15, 2011
"Well, apostates are mentally diseased."

The above is an utter disgrace.
The very idea that Mentally Disabled people are in some way bad is a blot on the Faith. Concepts such as the above can soon overflow into the idea that all mentally disabled people 'deserve to be disabled'.

Very bad.

 

[savagewind]

The above is an utter disgrace.
The very idea that Mentally Disabled people are in some way bad is a blot on the Faith. Concepts such as the above can soon overflow into the idea that all mentally disabled people 'deserve to be disabled'.

Very bad.

Thank you. I think what the society is saying though, is every apostate deserves to be considered mentally diseased. They do not say other mentally diseased people are bad apostates. Mental disease causes apostasy according to them. But a person can not apostasize if they are not part of their group at first. It's a warning!

 

[Nakosis]

Who is really projecting hate?

Watchtower March 15, 1986 pg. 15
"Like gangrene, apostate reasoning is nothing but quick spreading spiritual death."

Watchtower October 1, 1993 pg. 19
"Christians share Jehovah's feelings towards apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have made themselves God's enemies."

Watchtower July 1, 1994 pg. 12
"What would you expect from the table of demons? And while apostates....."

Watchtower July 15, 2011
"Well, apostates are mentally diseased."

Examining the scriptures daily August 18, 2011 pg. 83
"Like their father, Satan, apostates target people of integrity. No wonder servants of Jehovah avoid all contact with them."

So after reading all of that, The Watchtower Bible and Track Society seems to be saying that people who leave the organization are gangrenous speaking, mentally diseased people that eat from the table of demons with their father, Satan. They are also loathed and must be avoided. Wow, and who again is speaking hatefully? You talked about them spewing poison, but what most do is use Watchtowers words(poison) from the literature that is handed out.

I'm not very happy with the Watchtower. It seemed to me to have a willingness to quote the Bible out of context in order to make a point.

 

[Pegg]

So after reading all of that, The Watchtower Bible and Track Society seems to be saying that people who leave the organization are gangrenous speaking, mentally diseased people that eat from the table of demons with their father, Satan. They are also loathed and must be avoided. Wow, and who again is speaking hatefully? You talked about them spewing poison, but what most do is use Watchtowers words(poison) from the literature that is handed out.

No, all the references you quoted are about 'apostates' ... not about people who simply leave.

Being an apostate means they turn against and actively vilify Jehovah and his anointed ones.

Of course that is despicable and we reject them for their hatred and under the mosaic law such ones were to be put to death. So turning apostate is not a small matter...its very serious and there is no forgiveness for such ones...Jesus said there was only one sin which was unforgivable and it was the sin of apostasy which is the action they take against Gods holy spirit.

 

[savagewind]

No, all the references you quoted are about 'apostates' ... not about people who simply leave.

Being an apostate means they turn against and actively vilify Jehovah and his anointed ones.

Of course that is despicable and we reject them for their hatred and under the mosaic law such ones were to be put to death. So turning apostate is not a small matter...its very serious and there is no forgiveness for such ones...Jesus said there was only one sin which was unforgivable and it was the sin of apostasy which is the action they take against Gods holy spirit.

Oh good! How, please, am I "vilifying" Jehovah? Who is Jehovah? I am not vilifying YHVH. Who is Jehovah who I am vilifying?

Vilify.to lower in estimation or importance
to utter slanderous and abusive statements against :

You should be banned and your little friend too.

 

[savagewind]

I have a friend on Facebook. Sometimes her granddaughter posts on her page.

Are they Jheovah's Witnesses or is someone posting under the guise of them?

An example for the tenth time? PLEASE? Pretty, pretty please?

 

[savagewind]

JUST ONE. Show me you are human. Pick out just one example of vilify.

 

[savagewind]

I am raising Jehovah ABOVE the governing body. You are lowing Jehovah to below the governing body. It is YOU who vilify Jehovah.

For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

[savagewind]

And by the way by your being just fine with their false teaching YOU vilify them. The prophets of old came to correct. The governing body CAN NOT BE CORRECTED. Why? Is it because they are perfect? Or because they are NOT faithful and discreet?

 

[Nakosis]

No, all the references you quoted are about 'apostates' ... not about people who simply leave.

Being an apostate means they turn against and actively vilify Jehovah and his anointed ones.

Of course that is despicable and we reject them for their hatred and under the mosaic law such ones were to be put to death. So turning apostate is not a small matter...its very serious and there is no forgiveness for such ones...Jesus said there was only one sin which was unforgivable and it was the sin of apostasy which is the action they take against Gods holy spirit.

I think Jesus forgave those who vilified him. I always thought that a worthy example to follow myself.

 

[Pegg]

I think Jesus forgave those who vilified him. I always thought that a worthy example to follow myself.

I agree with you. But we are not talking about us as individuals being vilified...you can say what you want about me and i'm more then willing to forgive you, no problem.


Matt 12:31 “For this reason I say to you, every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the spirit will not be forgiven. 32 For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come.

 

[Shak34]

No, all the references you quoted are about 'apostates' ... not about people who simply leave.

Being an apostate means they turn against and actively vilify Jehovah and his anointed ones.

Of course that is despicable and we reject them for their hatred and under the mosaic law such ones were to be put to death. So turning apostate is not a small matter...its very serious and there is no forgiveness for such ones...Jesus said there was only one sin which was unforgivable and it was the sin of apostasy which is the action they take against Gods holy spirit.

According to Reasoning from the Scriptures:
"Apostasy is abandoning or deserting the worship and service of God, actually a rebellion against Jehovah God. Some apostates profess to know and serve God but reject teachings or requirements set out in in his word. Others claim to believe the bible but reject Jehovah's organization."

The next page states that: "They may claim to serve God but reject his representatives, his visible organization."

So that does state that anyone who leaves is an apostate. Since people who leave reject the organization as being appointed by Jehovah, whether or not they speak out against it.

 

[JayJayDee]

Who is really projecting hate?

Watchtower March 15, 1986 pg. 15
"Like gangrene, apostate reasoning is nothing but quick spreading spiritual death."

Watchtower October 1, 1993 pg. 19
"Christians share Jehovah's feelings towards apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have made themselves God's enemies."

Watchtower July 1, 1994 pg. 12
"What would you expect from the table of demons? And while apostates....."

Watchtower July 15, 2011
"Well, apostates are mentally diseased."

Examining the scriptures daily August 18, 2011 pg. 83
"Like their father, Satan, apostates target people of integrity. No wonder servants of Jehovah avoid all contact with them."

So after reading all of that, The Watchtower Bible and Track Society seems to be saying that people who leave the organization are gangrenous speaking, mentally diseased people that eat from the table of demons with their father, Satan. They are also loathed and must be avoided. Wow, and who again is speaking hatefully? You talked about them spewing poison, but what most do is use Watchtowers words(poison) from the literature that is handed out.

Carefully mined and cut quotes out of context can appear to be damning indeed. Twisted half truths can seem more awful than actual truth. If the entire article is read with those quotes in context, and the scriptures that formed the basis of the words, we might see a different story.

There is scriptural backing for every single thing we do and believe. No one is forced to believe anything against their will.

The quoted post is evidence of the kind of mentality that is demonstrated by those who defect. It is a defection from our faith. When someone defects from a nation politically, the loathing is fully justified in most people's minds, but when done by JW's, it is seen by many as a good thing. When someone slanders the ones you love, and you know that they have twisted the truth to justify their own conduct, what do you do?

Jesus was slandered and maligned too, he never answered his accusers but allowed them to think whatever they wished. We do too. People will believe whatever they want regardless of what we say or do. So be it.

No one stands over anyone with a big stick and makes them become Jehovah's Witnesses. We study often for many years before we make a vow of dedication to God to serve him as part of his spirit directed organization. God has always operated organizationally. Since the formation of the nation of Israel, he has directed his people through his chosen representatives. We firmly believe that we have found those representatives whom Jesus is using to accomplish the preaching of "the good news of God's kingdom in all the inhabited earth". Who else is doing this? He said he would be "with" those ones to the end. (Matt 24:14; 28:19, 20) We believe that the end will be soon.

It's not about how perfect you are or how devout or pious or right you believe yourself to be....it is about obedience. It has always been about obedience to God's commands. I have found no other organized body of Christians who fill the criteria for Christ's model more exceptionally than Jehovah's Witnesses do. But that is my opinion. Others are free to make up their own minds. Jesus said that his disciples would be hated and persecuted, but that some (not the majority) would listen. (John 15:19, 20; Matt 24:36-39)

When we make our choices, we should be as fully informed as possible from both sides....I stand by that. I have examined both sides and I came out of Christendom and into a global family that actually lives up to all that is expected of them as Christ's disciples. Do they do it perfectly? Does anyone? Were any of Jesus' disciples perfect? Can you pick faults? Of course you can....but they picked faults in Jesus and he 'was' perfect.

I'll just say that JW's do what is asked of them to the best of their imperfect ability. What more can be asked?

 

[Shak34]

Carefully mined and cut quotes out of context can appear to be damning indeed. Twisted half truths can seem more awful than actual truth. If the entire article is read with those quotes in context, and the scriptures that formed the basis of the words, we might see a different story.

There is scriptural backing for every single thing we do and believe. No one is forced to believe anything against their will.

The quoted post is evidence of the kind of mentality that is demonstrated by those who defect. It is a defection from our faith. When someone defects from a nation politically, the loathing is fully justified in most people's minds, but when done by JW's, it is seen by many as a good thing. When someone slanders the ones you love, and you know that they have twisted the truth to justify their own conduct, what do you do?

Jesus was slandered and maligned too, he never answered his accusers but allowed them to think whatever they wished. We do too. People will believe whatever they want regardless of what we say or do. So be it.

No one stands over anyone with a big stick and makes them become Jehovah's Witnesses. We study often for many years before we make a vow of dedication to God to serve him as part of his spirit directed organization. God has always operated organizationally. Since the formation of the nation of Israel, he has directed his people through his chosen representatives. We firmly believe that we have found those representatives whom Jesus is using to accomplish the preaching of "the good news of God's kingdom in all the inhabited earth". Who else is doing this? He said he would be "with" those ones to the end. (Matt 24:14; 28:19, 20) We believe that the end will be soon.

It's not about how perfect you are or how devout or pious or right you believe yourself to be....it is about obedience. It has always been about obedience to God's commands. I have found no other organized body of Christians who fill the criteria for Christ's model more exceptionally than Jehovah's Witnesses do. But that is my opinion. Others are free to make up their own minds. Jesus said that his disciples would be hated and persecuted, but that some (not the majority) would listen. (John 15:19, 20; Matt 24:36-39)

When we make our choices, we should be as fully informed as possible from both sides....I stand by that. I have examined both sides and I came out of Christendom and into a global family that actually lives up to all that is expected of them as Christ's disciples. Do they do it perfectly? Does anyone? Were any of Jesus' disciples perfect? Can you pick faults? Of course you can....but they picked faults in Jesus and he 'was' perfect.

I'll just say that JW's do what is asked of them to the best of their imperfect ability. What more can be asked?

Carefully minded and cut quotes out of context? That is why I put in all of the citations so anyone can look them up. Oh, how deceiving I am. If you would like me to put in more of the article so you can see all of it in context I would be more than happy to accommodate. I am against slander myself, please tell me when slandering has taken place.

 

[savagewind]

There is scriptural backing for every single thing we do and believe.

There is not much backing for the making of Jehovah's Witness disciples. You have one word and it was assumed in the translation. "Make" Matthew 28:19 Are you going to answer with your assertion or back off?


Colossians 4:6
Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.

Are my Bible questions examples of your accusation to me that I accuse You?

Your not having answers for us you call apostasy.

 

[savagewind]

Carefully minded and cut quotes out of context? That is why I put in all of the citations so anyone can look them up. Oh, how deceiving I am. If you would like me to put in more of the article so you can see all of it in context I would be more than happy to accommodate. I am against slander myself, please tell me when slandering has taken place.

Ask 100 times, 1000 times, and you won't get an answer.

 

[savagewind]

Whenever I ask a question I get an accusation thrown at me. No answers, only insults. I haven't actually made one insult against the Jehovah's Witness organization or against the governing body or against the posters here who say they are Jehovah's Witnesses... (until of course today. Because I have had enough of them accusing me of accusing them.) ....not on this forum or on others. Actually on another forum I said I appreciated the educaton I got with them and and then they murdered me.

 

[savagewind]

See? I was feeling bad about I don't know what they are....But bad didn't last long. I'm cool. Nevermind about the banning recommendation. I'm sorry.

 

[savagewind]

Jehovah's Witnesses know Jesus did not say "I am going, therefore disciple the nations" and that he did say "Go! Make disciples of the nations". I asked "how do you know?" And they said "apostate!" "trouble maker!" "Vilifyer!" I think my husband is a genius or pretty close. I think I am smart but he is ten times smarter than me. For an hour I was feeling so bad because their words are so mean I asked him if he knew what vilify meant. And he didn't exactly know. To vilify Jehovah God is to sin against the Holy Spirit. QUESTION ALERT! Isn't it? Is vilifying Jehovah God sinning against the Holy Spirit? So they have said it is what I have done. There is no forgiveness for it. I might as well just go kill myself.