Enlightenment

[SalixIncendium]

How is enlightenment achieved in your religion or form of spirituality?

And so the atheists/anti-theists don't feel left out, can you achieve enlightenment in your worldview? If so, how?

 

[bobhikes]

My definition of enlightenment is Self realization. Enlightenment being your place in the world and unless your religion puts value on self realization it is doubtful you could gain enlightenment through religion. Most religions are based on faith, something bigger than you something you have to trust in this runs contrary to enlightenment. I consider myself Agnostic, Christian, Taoist and I go to church regularly (this information provided for statistical use).

 

[Windwalker]

How is enlightenment achieved in your religion or form of spirituality?

I tend to find the word "achievement" a misleading term, as if Enlightenment is an accomplishment of effort to attain something outside of us. I'm of the mind that Enlightenment is our natural condition at the core of who we are, and it's really much more a matter of pulling back the drawn curtains to see that Light that has always been there. So the effort, the work involved, is to make no effort at all, to simply get out of the way and let it be. We try to not try, in other words, which is different of course than apathy. And that's far more difficult than one might think!

The reason I and others make this claim that Enlightenment is our precondition, is because you can have those who have had zero spiritual training, no meditation work, no years of discipline, and so forth, suddenly have a full out Satori experience spontaneously. I am one of those people who had such an experience at 18 years of age. However, that does not mean I was now "Enlightened" in the sense that I lived every waking moment in that state thereafter. Hardly! It forever changed my understanding of Reality, and the years following have been all about the long road "home" to that again.

And that is where the 'effort' comes in. We have to learn to unlearn, to seek to not seek, to simply "allow" that which is always already fully there in us to shine through to the conscious, waking mind. We don't "achieve" it anymore than we "achieve" our lungs. We simply learn how to use them better, to be aware of them, and let them fully breathe us. And that is why Enlightenment is not an accomplishment to boast of, it's just simply our natural state we come home to and rest in with boundless joy. Another way to put this, everyone is already Enlightened, but they're just not enlightened to the fact of that yet.

 

[Vinayaka]

How is enlightenment achieved in your religion or form of spirituality?

And so the atheists/anti-theists don't feel left out, can you achieve enlightenment in your worldview? If so, how?

Definitions of enlightenment vary widely, so the responses may well be talking about really different things.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I tend to find the word "achievement" a misleading term, as if Enlightenment is an accomplishment of effort to attain something outside of us. I'm of the mind that Enlightenment is our natural condition at the core of who we are, and it's really much more a matter of pulling back the drawn curtains to see that Light that has always been there. So the effort, the work involved, is to make no effort at all, to simply get out of the way and let it be. We try to not try, in other words, which is different of course than apathy. And that's far more difficult than one might think!

The reason I and others make this claim that Enlightenment is our precondition, is because you can have those who have had zero spiritual training, no meditation work, no years of discipline, and so forth, suddenly have a full out Satori experience spontaneously. I am one of those people who had such an experience at 18 years of age. However, that does not mean I was now "Enlightened" in the sense that I lived every waking moment in that state thereafter. Hardly! It forever changed my understanding of Reality, and the years following have been all about the long road "home" to that again.

And that is where the 'effort' comes in. We have to learn to unlearn, to seek to not seek, to simply "allow" that which is always already fully there in us to shine through to the conscious, waking mind. We don't "achieve" it anymore than we "achieve" our lungs. We simply learn how to use them better, to be aware of them. And that is why Enlightenment is not an accomplishment to boast of, it's just simply our natural state we come home to and rest in with boundless joy.

Funny that you are speaking about the word "achieve". I was actually debating in my head the verb to use in the question presented in the OP and boiled it down to two: "attain" and "achieve." Based on your post here which discusses spontaneous enlightenment, "attain" might have been a better choice. But for the purpose of this thread, the reader can use whichever might be more applicable to his/her specific path.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Definitions of enlightenment vary widely, so the responses may ell be talking about really different things.

The ambiguity was intentional.

 

[Windwalker]

Definitions of enlightenment vary widely, so the responses may ell be talking about really different things.

If you think about it, since Enlightenment is limitless, then you would expect there to be many ways we all can talk about it. To define it as "this" puts a boundary around something that is boundless, and it become an idea or an expression of individual perception. The best we can hope for is to look at where all the fingers are pointing toward, and then go immerse ourselves into that and have our own mind's way of knowing what that is for ourselves.

 

[Windwalker]

Funny that you are speaking about the word "achieve". I was actually debating in my head the verb to use in the question presented in the OP and boiled it down to two: "attain" and "achieve." Based on your post here which discusses spontaneous enlightenment, "attain" might have been a better choice. But for the purpose of this thread, the reader can use whichever might be more applicable to his/her specific path.

I like to use the word Realize, to get around this. Enlightenment is a Realization of ourselves and the nature of Reality.

I was thinking there was a lot more to add to this though since your question was about "how". We do still have to realize Enlightenment, and aside from spontaneous peak experiences, there is a certain amount of effort involved to get ourselves out of the way to let that happen for us. To be sure. Once we learn how to get out of the way, the more easily that is accessed by us, to the point it becomes us, our natural state.

I heard this once, I believe it came from Krishnamurti but I'm not sure. It goes like this: Enlightenment happens by accident, and meditation makes you accident prone. In other words it puts you into the path of it just happening. It's often describe as like a lightning strike which is why the dorje is designed to look like a thunderbolt. Peak experiences open the door to see what is there already. Meditation gets you used to wearing it as your daily set of clothes.

 

[Vinayaka]

If you think about it, since Enlightenment is limitless, then you would expect there to be many ways we all can talk about it. To define it as "this" puts a boundary around something that is boundless, and it become an idea or an expression of individual perception. The best we can hope for is to look at where all the fingers are pointing toward, and then go immerse ourselves into that and have our own mind's way of knowing what that is for ourselves.

I've seen people get confused over the term from 'the age of Enlightenment' when I believe that just referred to the period of time when science, music, etc. got all ramped up. So although, as you say, it's limitless, I prefer your explanation in the previous post. When you told of your mystic, experience at 18, you didn't figure it was full or continued enlightenment, which I've seem some folks do.

I only commented because I think it's something we need to keep in mind when talking about a whole host of things, not just this term 'enlightenment'. In other words, 'are we talking about the same thing?'

Lots of other uses of the word add to the possible confusion. Phrases like , well, that was enlightening' probably don't help.

 

[Vinayaka]

The ambiguity was intentional.

Okay then.

 

[sayak83]

How is enlightenment achieved in your religion or form of spirituality?

And so the atheists/anti-theists don't feel left out, can you achieve enlightenment in your worldview? If so, how?

Hindu: realizing oneness with Brahman.

 

[Windwalker]

I've seen people get confused over the term from 'the age of Enlightenment' when I believe that just referred to the period of time when science, music, etc. got all ramped up.

Oh yes, you are exactly right. I hadn't thought about it in that context. The Western Enlightenment is a very different thing than when we think of Eastern Enlightenment, which is a matter of Awakened consciousness.

So although, as you say, it's limitless, I prefer your explanation in the previous post. When you told of your mystic, experience at 18, you didn't figure it was full or continued enlightenment, which I've seem some folks do.

Again, this is very true. There is this common misnomer that when you have that experience, you're now done, that's it, you're omniscient and know all things past, present, and future. It's sort of mythologizing of something that seems so far removed from our daily mundane reality. It may feel like that at first, but then of course you have to go do the laundry, cook your meals, and learn a bunch of mundane crap to keep on living your life.

I like to put it, Enlightenment is just the beginning point to really learning how to live. Not the end where you get off and not longer have to learn. It's like filling your gas tank so you can now drive the long distance to the next destination.

 

[Sunstone]

There are innumerable accounts of enlightenment experiences spontaneously occurring to people, without any preparation such as meditation, prayer, drugs, etc. Many of those accounts are about atheists, or about people who were religiously indifferent.

By "enlightenment experiences", I mean the sort of experiences people can have following an abrupt end to their perceiving the world as divided between themselves and what is not themselves.

 

[YmirGF]

I tend to find the word "achievement" a misleading term, as if Enlightenment is an accomplishment of effort to attain something outside of us. I'm of the mind that Enlightenment is our natural condition at the core of who we are, and it's really much more a matter of pulling back the drawn curtains to see that Light that has always been there. So the effort, the work involved, is to make no effort at all, to simply get out of the way and let it be. We try to not try, in other words, which is different of course than apathy. And that's far more difficult than one might think!

The reason I and others make this claim that Enlightenment is our precondition, is because you can have those who have had zero spiritual training, no meditation work, no years of discipline, and so forth, suddenly have a full out Satori experience spontaneously. I am one of those people who had such an experience at 18 years of age. However, that does not mean I was now "Enlightened" in the sense that I lived every waking moment in that state thereafter. Hardly! It forever changed my understanding of Reality, and the years following have been all about the long road "home" to that again.

And that is where the 'effort' comes in. We have to learn to unlearn, to seek to not seek, to simply "allow" that which is always already fully there in us to shine through to the conscious, waking mind. We don't "achieve" it anymore than we "achieve" our lungs. We simply learn how to use them better, to be aware of them, and let them fully breathe us. And that is why Enlightenment is not an accomplishment to boast of, it's just simply our natural state we come home to and rest in with boundless joy. Another way to put this, everyone is already Enlightened, but they're just not enlightened to the fact of that yet.

You never fail to impress, @Windwalker

What is it about 18, eh? My appointment with infinity arrived 4 days after my 18th birthday and my view of reality has never been the same since. It's strange entering an experience as a child and then returning from it as an ancient being from outside of time.

 

[George-ananda]

How is enlightenment achieved in your religion or form of spirituality?

Through focus on love and peace whatever the situation. This involves increasing detachment from the material plane's ups and downs. Through this effort, we will more and more feel the Oneness that pervades us all. In my form of spirituality all consciousness is ultimately One expressing itself through the myriad of beings and enlightenment is gained the more this is realized.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

How is enlightenment achieved in your religion or form of spirituality?

And so the atheists/anti-theists don't feel left out, can you achieve enlightenment in your worldview? If so, how?

"How is enlightenment achieved in your religion or form of spirituality?"

In the traditional fashion, I simply pretend that I am better than those around me.

 

[SalixIncendium]

"How is enlightenment achieved in your religion or form of spirituality?"

In the traditional fashion, I simply pretend that I am better than those around me.

Then allow me to the the first to say you are the master of your own "spirituality."

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Then allow me to the the first to say you are the master of your own "spirituality."

I have been the master of my own spirituality since before kindergarten; where on a suspicion that my parents were putting the presents under the tree and not Santa, I secretly got up in the night and spied on the tree in hiding to confirm that suspicion.

 

[WalterTrull]

How is enlightenment achieved in your ...form of spirituality?

Interesting, I was just thinking about a thread like this. Took a whack at it in a couple of other threads but apparently missed. Will try again in my fashion.

In my lexicon, enlightenment is pretty much synonymous with revelation. 2 plus 2 is four. I didn’t figure that out. It is. At some point, it was revealed to me. I’m just walkin’ down the road. Some of the store windows are lit up, some not. Don’t really know why. Some folks walk down the road and there’s a bolt of lightning that lights everything up all at once. I am sooo envious.

 

[sun rise]

I tend to find the word "achievement" a misleading term, as if Enlightenment is an accomplishment of effort to attain something outside of us. I'm of the mind that Enlightenment is our natural condition at the core of who we are, and it's really much more a matter of pulling back the drawn curtains to see that Light that has always been there. So the effort, the work involved, is to make no effort at all, to simply get out of the way and let it be. We try to not try, in other words, which is different of course than apathy. And that's far more difficult than one might think!

The reason I and others make this claim that Enlightenment is our precondition, is because you can have those who have had zero spiritual training, no meditation work, no years of discipline, and so forth, suddenly have a full out Satori experience spontaneously. I am one of those people who had such an experience at 18 years of age. However, that does not mean I was now "Enlightened" in the sense that I lived every waking moment in that state thereafter. Hardly! It forever changed my understanding of Reality, and the years following have been all about the long road "home" to that again.

And that is where the 'effort' comes in. We have to learn to unlearn, to seek to not seek, to simply "allow" that which is always already fully there in us to shine through to the conscious, waking mind. We don't "achieve" it anymore than we "achieve" our lungs. We simply learn how to use them better, to be aware of them, and let them fully breathe us. And that is why Enlightenment is not an accomplishment to boast of, it's just simply our natural state we come home to and rest in with boundless joy. Another way to put this, everyone is already Enlightened, but they're just not enlightened to the fact of that yet.

I basically see it that way using in some cases different words such as 'veil' rather than 'curtain'.

And I would add that from my perspective "learning to unlearn" is a matter of the heart not the intellect. It's not a matter of studying textbooks on spirituality. From the movie They Might Be Giants : "The human heart can see what's hidden to the eyes, and the heart knows things that the mind does not begin to understand."