"Donald Trump Says Transgender People Won’t Be Allowed To Serve In Military"

[Jeremiahcp]

My points don't relate...AT ALL...to the validity of your personal philosophy. My points relate to how SOCIETY...not just you...makes decisions and takes actions.

It has stuff all to do with relativism, because it has stuff all to do with morality.

Your thoughts regarding transgenderism is (obviously) related to your morality. Or objective morality if you roll that way. That still has nothing to do with my point.

Anyways...we seem to be talking at cross purposes. I have no problem (and would agree) that transgender people need to have the same rights as others.

"My points don't relate...AT ALL...to the validity of your personal philosophy. "

I know this, which was my point. Now that we all have points, let's make sure no one loses an eye.

 

[esmith]

Opinion on the following video
The truth about the Army's transgender training guide

and if you want to read the Manual here is the link. Note it is a PDF file
transgender Service members - Department of Defense

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Not news, relevant though and as always funny. He makes some good points.

 

[Revoltingest]

In the news.....
Transgender People Can Still Serve for Now, U.S. Military Says

 

[metis]

Isn't it interesting that Trump's announcement came as a complete surprise to the DoD even though he said that he worked in conjunction with them?

If I was a military person, I'd be quite upset with him for subverting the leadership and taking a sexually bigoted position. What's next: he gonna ban blacks and women like the "good old days"?

I'm upset with him even me not being a veteran, largely because of his blatant dishonesty and disregard for the "rule of law". If he were to supposedly be so honest, then why does he and several others of his advisers constantly take steps to try and stop all investigations on the Russia matter? [rhetorical question: anyone who's even somewhat objective well knows why] Instead, he want's Hillary investigated, so obviously he cannot be against such investigations carte blanche.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You do realize there are many roles in the military that doesn't equate to killing. There are many logistical positions to fill too.

I get that some roles require stength, endurance and mental fortitude. Those that want these roles need to qualify through tests but they should be unbiased against race, gender and orientation.

I'm an ex soldier myself. All military personnel are trained to kill.

Just don't **** off the cooks. They know how to kill people too.

 

[Callisto]

Donald Trump Says Transgender People Won't Be Allowed To Serve In Military

Apologies in advance if this repeats what has already been stated (I skimmed the posts and most seemed to be quibbling back n' forth with each other over who/what constitutes being bigoted).

This is just another example of how brain-dead the ignoramus in chief is - there is already transgender personnel. Individuals who have already proven their patriotism and mettle. Now, suddenly they're not "fit" to serve and will create a problem - when they've already been serving and haven't been a problem or a burden? He fails to address this existing situation. And good luck finding a lawful way to remove individuals who have and continue to honorably serve.

All this demonstrates is his lack of intelligence and comprehension (reportedly, this ban stems from a bill amendment seeking to ban the Pentagon from paying for medical costs (e.g., hormone therapy) for transgender personnel, not to ban the personnel themselves). Not to mention it shows, yet again, how Trump voters were hoodwinked by his lies, saying whatever he has to say and flip-flopping when convenient. He has no integrity or honor and certainly void of decency.

 

[suncowiam]

I'm an ex soldier myself. All military personnel are trained to kill.

Just don't **** off the cooks. They know how to kill people too.

A childhood friend of mine made it into the army as a surgeon/doctor. He's skinny as heck and I can't imagine for the life of me that he's able to kill anyone.

I'm sure he wasn't recruited because of his chicken legs and weak frame. I wouldn't want him to be in the front lines and I'm sure his commanders weren't thinking the same. He's there for a logical and purposeful role.

Like I said before... I understand some roles require a certain set of requirements. Those that can pass these requirements should be allowed to join. Just don't make those tests be biased towards sex, race and orientation. Let's each individual stand up to the same tests required.

You're indirectly suggesting that orientation is enough to suggest that they cannot join the military. Is that your opinion? If so, then please explain further...

 

[Guy Threepwood]

You don't want to bunk up with Mary who used to be Matt, and that makes you a bigot? No, not really... Soldiering isn't about what we like, it's about what we need to defend the country. A population that represents less than 1% of the nation doesn't need any special consideration, it simply isn't enough people to care. The military also doesn't allow long-haired men, and you don't see me crying. Are they bigoted against metal heads? Holy crap, it's just five seconds from crazy-town. Why don't we let the furries and vampires in too?

Yes, the military respects religious diets even among prisoners, because everyone has to eat something and it's part of the job. Sex is not, neither are fashion statements, freedom of expression, these are all great things that they defend and are free to enjoy as civilians where our enemies cannot,.

This is the sort of thing that lost the Democrats the election in the first place, we have some real problems to worry about

 

[tytlyf]

Opinion on the following video
The truth about the Army's transgender training guide

and if you want to read the Manual here is the link. Note it is a PDF file
transgender Service members - Department of Defense

What about the video? It's Tucker Carlson. He's not a journalist. He's hired, like the rest of Fox, to read the script off the teleprompter. And use voice inflections while you do it.
Ever notice they all have tons of pages (scripts) either on their table or lap?

Roger Ailes ain't in heaven.

 

[leibowde84]

I think you just made your own argument against transgendered persons in a highly discipline environment: "...a soldier that unstable and unreliable is probably someone you should not arm with a gun and grenades." And before you start gathering the villagers to storm my house, I do not say this from a bigoted viewpoint as I do know and respect transgendered people. Do you expect the military to make special concessions for this person? Pay for treatments and operations? Retrofit their uniforms?

Why can't they just continue treating transgender soldiers the same way they are now? There are thousands of transgender soldiers now, and there isn't any evidence that it is creating a problem significant enough to demand firing all of them.

 

[leibowde84]

Yes, the military respects religious diets even among prisoners, because everyone has to eat something and it's part of the job. Sex is not, neither are fashion statements, freedom of expression, these are all great things that they defend and are free to enjoy as civilians where our enemies cannot,.

This is the sort of thing that lost the Democrats the election in the first place, we have some real problems to worry about

But, being transgender is not about sex or fashion statements. So, how is your statement here relevant? Being transgender means that a person feels incredibly strongly that they were born in the wrong body. Neurologically they are a man living in a woman's body (or visa versa). Shouldn't we all be able to live as the gender we truly feel that we are?

 

[tytlyf]

Shouldn't we all be able to live as the gender we truly feel that we are?

You should be able to. But there are bullies everywhere. And the bullies are the real problem here.

 

[BSM1]

Why can't they just continue treating transgender soldiers the same way they are now? There are thousands of transgender soldiers now, and there isn't any evidence that it is creating a problem significant enough to demand firing all of them.

Thousands of transgendered soldiers??? I would certainly like to see some verification on that.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Thousands of transgendered soldiers??? I would certainly like to see some verification on that.

The figures surrounding the question of how many trans people serve in the military are primarily based on two different studies, one from the Williams Institue and another from the RAND Corporation.

The Williams Institute study from 2014 estimated “that approximately 15,500 transgender individuals are serving on active duty or in the Guard or Reserve forces.” The study suggests that “8,800 transgender individuals are currently on active duty.”

The estimate is primarily based on “the National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS), which was conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the National Center for Transgender Equality.” One of the questions from the 70-item survey was, “Have you ever been a member of the armed forces?” The study received 6,546 “valid responses.”

A study in 2016 from the RAND Corporation, sponsored by the secretary of defense, estimates that “the number of transgender individuals currently serving in the active component of the U.S. military at between 1,320 and 6,630 out of a total of about 1.3 million service members.” This number accounts for 0.1-0.5 percent of those serving in active military according to the RAND Corporation.

As the RAND Corporation’s study admits, “It is difficult to estimate the number of transgender personnel in the military due to current policies and a lack of empirical data.” Instead, they base their numbers on multiple surveys and estimates. “As a result, much existing research relies on self-reported, nonrepresentative survey samples,” the study notes.

The Williams Institute study estimated that there are 8,800 trans people serving in active military roles whereas the RAND Corporation study estimates between 1,320 – 6,630. The estimates for those serving in the reserves are also quite different, with the Williams Institute suggesting that 6,700 serve and the RAND Corporation estimating only 1,510.

FACT CHECK: Are 15,000 Trans People Serving In The US Military?

 

[Jeremiahcp]

At this time it doesn't seem like the military is going to listen to Trump's tweets. Also it seems Trump did not consult with the military's higher-ups on this.

Donald Trump transgender ban tweet blindsided US Joint Chiefs - CNNPolitics.com

The Joint Chiefs of Staff, including chairman General Joseph Dunford, were not aware President Donald Trump planned to tweet a ban on transgender service members, three US defense officials told CNN -- the latest indication that top military leaders across all four service branches were blindsided by the President's announcement.

For now, Dunford has informed service members that there will be "no modifications to the current policy until the President's direction has been received by the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary has issued implementation guidelines."
"In the meantime, we will continue to treat all of our personnel with respect," Dunford wrote in a memo to the military that was obtained by CNN. "As importantly, given the current fight and the challenges we face, we will all remain focused on accomplishing our assigned missions."

 

[leibowde84]

Thousands of transgendered soldiers??? I would certainly like to see some verification on that.

"Our estimates suggest that approximately 15,500 transgender individuals are serving on active duty or in the Guard or Reserve forces. We also estimate that there are an estimated 134,300 transgender individuals who are veterans or are retired from Guard or Reserve service."
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Transgender-Military-Service-May-2014.pdf

 

[BSM1]

FACT CHECK: Are 15,000 Trans People Serving In The US Military?

Did you read the article? The real estimate, according to your own article, is far less than the tweeted number.

At this time it doesn't seem like the military is going to listen to Trump's tweets. Also it seems Trump did not consult with the military's higher-ups on this.

Donald Trump transgender ban tweet blindsided US Joint Chiefs - CNNPolitics.com

He doesn't have to, he's the boss.

 

[leibowde84]

Did you read the article? The real estimate, according to your own article, is far less than the tweeted number.

Sure, but all estimates are in the thousands, right?

He doesn't have to, he's the boss.

Don't you think any decent President should (even though it isn't absolutely required)?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This also isn't just about transgender people. It's about the man who is in charge of the military giving no thought or consideration to the real high ups in the military who have had real military experience and not pretend academy "experience."
Either the president, being in charge of the military, should be expected to have military experience or someone else needs to be in charge of it and work closely with the president concerning military issues.