"Donald Trump Says Transgender People Won’t Be Allowed To Serve In Military"

[Mindmaster]

So I should compile an "Army of the Short".

I don't think there should be physical restrictions for joining the military. However, if one is unable to perform their duties due to a physical deficit, they should be removed from the military, or at least demoted depending on the nature of their deficiency. One outstanding instance where the military should discriminate in admissions based on physical criteria, could be the prohibition of those under 5'4 from becoming air force pilots as the safety restraints in the pilot's seat are too large. That does make sense.

Many of the reasons are just as simple as the one you listed, but it also goes into psychological profiling as well. I think from a team building perspective it is a complete and total distraction (not that there is anything wrong in my view of transgenders). It takes the focus away from gearing up for war to social constructs of who is called what and what is acceptable. By the time you're done figuring out if you are Sir, Ma'am, or Ze you're dead. That's why this crap doesn't work on the battlefield...

 

[Mindmaster]

But I will say this. I work with a transperson undergoing hormones. They haven't even gone under the knife yet, but it's already causing problems at work that aren't related to social stigma and bias. You're changing your body. There are bound to be some side effects, and those are bound to affect those that you're working with. In a combat situation, that's not the time for problems - either psychological or physical - to surface.

I'm not trying to bash them, I am just trying to point out some of the obvious dilemmas. Where on the battlefield do you get hormone therapy, anyway? I just think their medical needs are not properly served within the context of a field triage unit (physically and psychologically), and that is a logistical nightmare situation for acting commanders. It's the only reason I can think of them being so absolutely one-sided in that direction at this point in time - it just has to be practical. It's important to note that Trump, at least on this issue, is just following what his commanders advised.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I'm curious about this as well. I find it very hard to believe that the costs incurred by not discriminating against a group of citizens based on what is supposed to be a protected legal classification is at all significant. Especially when compared to the costs or providing mental health resources for traumatized veterans, or dealing with the illnesses cultivated by the smoking/drinking culture that I've heard pervades in the military.

I feel as if this is something Trump is doing to appeal to the Christian right-wing which I know for a fact he does not want to abandon. Granted that people like myself voted for Trump and knew for a fact he would be playing fast and loose while in office but I did not expect this action. I figured that it would be better for him to show more social progressivism in areas that are more trivial like this since it could ensure his second term.

To do this now seems like it is appeasing the wrong base and also wasting legislative time. I also forgot about the fact that Republicans are in control of the house and senate so this could be it as well but I just can't fathom Paul Ryan giving enough of a damn about matters like this.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It's important to note that Trump, at least on this issue, is just following what his commanders advised.

It's more important to note that in this matter specifically, Trump doesn't matter. What he says doesn't matter. What Mattis says and does is the important thing. Trump isn't "God-King Emperor Trump," and his word isn't law; even though some on the left are going to cling to what he claims as though it is.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

OK. How about this. A person was born male and has all the male anatomy. But he thinks of himself as female. So here are a group of female soldiers in a battlefield condition. This guy with all his male parts wants to use the female showers. Don't the true females have some rights? They do not want to shower with someone who is really a male but just thinks of himself as female. People with male anatomy should be together and people with female anatomy should be together. Why should a male force his way into a group of females or a female force her way into a group of males? Anatomy should be the deciding factor. If you want to think of yourself in a way that is different from your anatomy, that is your business but do not force it on others.

 

[Sha'irullah]

OK. How about this. A person was born male and has all the male anatomy. But he thinks of himself as female. So here are a group of female soldiers in a battlefield condition. This guy with all his male parts wants to use the female showers. Don't the true females have some rights? They do not want to shower with someone who is really a male but just thinks of himself as female. People with male anatomy should be together and people with female anatomy should be together. Why should a male force his way into a group of females or a female force her way into a group of males? Anatomy should be the deciding factor. If you want to think of yourself in a way that is different from your anatomy, that is your business but do not force it on others.

Hallelujah!
What is even more shocking than that is that I spelled "hallelujah" correct, second time included without using a dictionary . I feel so proud of myself

 

[Jeremiahcp]

OK. How about this. A person was born male and has all the male anatomy. But he thinks of himself as female. So here are a group of female soldiers in a battlefield condition. This guy with all his male parts wants to use the female showers. Don't the true females have some rights? They do not want to shower with someone who is really a male but just thinks of himself as female. People with male anatomy should be together and people with female anatomy should be together. Why should a male force his way into a group of females or a female force her way into a group of males? Anatomy should be the deciding factor. If you want to think of yourself in a way that is different from your anatomy, that is your business but do not force it on others.

Gender is a cultural identity. You think having a penis is what makes football so popular among men? Not at all, that is how they were taught to act.

Here, educate yourself: https://campus.fsu.edu/bbcswebdav/i...lities/1987 West Zimmerman - Doing Gender.pdf

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

You are completely free to have any gender identity you want. Just keep your penis out of the women's restroom and locker room. If I am 5 feet 6 inches tall but think of myself as 6 feet 8 inches that does not mean I can be a great basketball player. If you have male parts but think of yourself as female that does not mean you can be in a female restroom.

 

[Mindmaster]

It's more important to note that in this matter specifically, Trump doesn't matter. What he says doesn't matter. What Mattis says and does is the important thing. Trump isn't "God-King Emperor Trump," and his word isn't law; even though some on the left are going to cling to what he claims as though it is.

It's nice that someone realizes that Mattis and his advisers are really the ones calling the shots on this, our President certainly knows what they're doing but let's the pros run the show. I think his comment was intentionally to direct any ire to himself personally, to let the damn commanders make the right choices.

 

[Mindmaster]

Gender is a cultural identity. You think having a penis is what makes football so popular among men? Not at all, that is how they were taught to act.

Here, educate yourself: https://campus.fsu.edu/bbcswebdav/institution/academic/social_sciences/sociology/Reading Lists/Social Psych Prelim Readings/IV. Structures and Inequalities/1987 West Zimmerman - Doing Gender.pdf

No, football players are a product of Darwinism - big beefy black dudes who are tall and weigh 200-300 pounds of muscle are genetically superior at playing the sport if skill is equal. The average white woman would get destroyed by one of these perfectly grown warriors - blood, guts, and paralysis are bad for ratings... especially if it was a woman...

It's not about being a bigot, biased, or anything else... It's about avoiding putting murder on Monday Night Football...

 

[Deidre]

If someone identifies as a particular gender, why is it necessary to know if he/she was born a biological female/male before enlisting in the military? Why is it relevant? It's like we have come so far in so many ways, but then we're back in the dark ages again, when it comes to treating EVERYONE with dignity, and without discrimination. I fail to see what difference it makes if someone is transgender, as to their competency in the military.

 

[Yerda]

I wonder what he's attempting to distract the American people from this time?

 

[Mindmaster]

If someone identifies as a particular gender, why is it necessary to know if he/she was born a biological female/male before enlisting in the military? Why is it relevant? It's like we have come so far in so many ways, but then we're back in the dark ages again, when it comes to treating EVERYONE with dignity, and without discrimination. I fail to see what difference it makes if someone is transgender, as to their competency in the military.

Heh, I didn't even read your post, but re-read the one before yours. The short of it is that men are anatomically superior for combat, millions of years of the The Most Exalted Chuckie Darwin's theory at work... Women are superior at rearing families, feeding babies, and comforting children. These aren't "gender roles" they're biological imperatives when you are competing against nature to survive. We have it easier now, but that doesn't change the fact that we are made a certain way.

 

[Deidre]

Heh, I didn't even read your post, but re-read the one before yours. The short of it is that men are anatomically superior for combat, millions of years of the The Most Exalted Chuckie Darwin's theory at work... Women are superior at rearing families, feeding babies, and comforting children. These aren't "gender roles" they're biological imperatives when you are competing against nature to survive. We have it easier now, but that doesn't change the fact that we are made a certain way.

I don't disagree that biologically, on average, we are different in terms of strength, etc. But, if a woman is competent to pass all of the military training tests, not watered down tests, but the same tests that the men pass, then she should be permitted to serve. And you should be grateful for her service.

 

[idav]

Heh, I didn't even read your post, but re-read the one before yours. The short of it is that men are anatomically superior for combat, millions of years of the The Most Exalted Chuckie Darwin's theory at work... Women are superior at rearing families, feeding babies, and comforting children. These aren't "gender roles" they're biological imperatives when you are competing against nature to survive. We have it easier now, but that doesn't change the fact that we are made a certain way.

The real issue is people in the military get free health care which does not mean a person should get free gender reassignment or free liposuction depending on the mental issue of the day. People are all born differently with all sorts of anomalies that we need to be able to deal with but opens a can a worms when healthcare is provided for.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Here's another perspective. It's from Twitter, so I can't edit out the language, so view the spoilers at your own risk:

Spoiler

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Here's another perspective. It's from Twitter, so I can't edit out the language, so view the spoilers at your own risk:

Spoiler

View attachment 18425 View attachment 18426 View attachment 18427 View attachment 18428 View attachment 18429

That idiot assumes that trans people can't have it together, as if we haven't been in the military all along.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

OK. How about this. A person was born male and has all the male anatomy. But he thinks of himself as female. So here are a group of female soldiers in a battlefield condition. This guy with all his male parts wants to use the female showers. Don't the true females have some rights? They do not want to shower with someone who is really a male but just thinks of himself as female. People with male anatomy should be together and people with female anatomy should be together. Why should a male force his way into a group of females or a female force her way into a group of males? Anatomy should be the deciding factor. If you want to think of yourself in a way that is different from your anatomy, that is your business but do not force it on others.

Yeah, because my burly bearded self should be showering with the females. Thanks, dude.

Stupid comment.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That idiot assumes that trans people can't have it together, as if we haven't been in the military all along.

I don't think he's saying that at all. Rather that military life is not what most people assume it is, and that special exceptions can be deadly. I've no doubt that there are transpeople who have it together, and can handle the extreme stress. There are others who - like any other demographic - don't. That is something that needs to be taken into consideration as to how it's handled; the fact that special treatment and handling cannot be afforded the individuals at risk of the unit. In our society, honestly that's a bit of a PR nightmare.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Many of the reasons are just as simple as the one you listed, but it also goes into psychological profiling as well. I think from a team building perspective it is a complete and total distraction (not that there is anything wrong in my view of transgenders). It takes the focus away from gearing up for war to social constructs of who is called what and what is acceptable. By the time you're done figuring out if you are Sir, Ma'am, or Ze you're dead. That's why this crap doesn't work on the battlefield...

They tried to use similar arguments for other groups, all with the idea that these outsiders are going to break group cohesion. And while Conservatives have long been the ones opposing an integrated military and insisting it will be bad for the military, so many actual military just do not care. Of course I've never been in the military, but I have strong suspicions the bonds people form in the military run so deep that such things really aren't a concern for more, as knowing they have your back as you have theirs takes top priority. And when push comes to shove, does anything else honestly even matter?