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Featured Do you believe in God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Segev Moran, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Aniek

    Aniek New Member

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    "Know yourself, and you will find God."

    So, if you want to know God, you have to find Him inside you.

    I raised by religous family, went to boarding school to study religion, etc.
    But, I always doubted God all my life. Is He really exist? My family and teachers never really answer my questions about God. They said, "Ssshh, that's taboo! You just have to believe!"
    I doubted God, but I always want to know. So, i look for Him at many organization such as Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb at-Tahrir, dll. I study another religion too, but i never really interested to change my belief.

    Then, i met with this man who has smile as bright as sky. He taught me to know myself. Look inside my own heart. Listen to it.
    Deep inside our hearts, he said, we always want to know who create us.

    I am a moslem, yes. But i believe all religion taught the same because all religions from the one root. Not, not the taught of violences, please differentiate Islam and Islamism.
     
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  2. Segev Moran

    Segev Moran Well-Known Member

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    Religion:
    Wow
    Really?
    I Know my self.. probably more than a lot of theist people.
    I Think the fact that I am an Atheist proves that point ;)
    But assuming your statement is true...
    What does it mean Know yourself?
    I Know who I am.. how is this related to God?
    I Know my most secret cravings and desires... How is that relevant to the question of God?
    I know every inch of my body and I am very aware of the damages I do to it..
    How is that related to the question of God?
     
  3. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    That the fundamental constituent of existence is One (called God or Brahman by some). This 'One' is pure consciousness (no matter involved). This existence of the One is a fundamental mystery to a finite mind and as quantum physicist Max Planck has said; we can not get behind what consciousness is. Planck's thoughts are really in-line with what the masters/adepts of the eastern/Indian tradition have said.

    The universe is a play/drama of the One. The One experiences the universe through gigazillion sparks of itself experiencing through temporary finite material forms. Eventually the spark in each of these will realize the Oneness as its basis.
     
  4. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    I'm not sure I should tell the story in this thread given "God" is being defined as "an intelligent deity or force that is active in our day to day lives." But I'm going to tell a version of the story anyway, because it seems particularly important for this discussion.

    The stories you tell yourself about what "god" is - the stories you were forced to listen to because of the culture you grew up in - determine your perspective about god, and theology. So much so that we are utterly blind to things outside it. I say this as someone who has been there. Then, s
    ome years ago, there was a moment I read some words that helped me realize that all the ideas I'd had about "god" previously where things
    other people told me about god. They were maps of territory. I was prompted to throw out those assumptions, the things my culture had taught me, and avoid confusing what people say about god with gods themselves. I was asked "if you could design a god, what would it be like?" I knew what my gods were. What I didn't know is that those things could be called gods. I was able to stop mistaking the map for the territory. If your gods aren't things you already know are real, you're doing it wrong.

    Just this one's opining, of course.
     
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  5. Segev Moran

    Segev Moran Well-Known Member

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    Religion:
    Wow
    It is all sounds lovely, Yet I cannot see its impact on the universe.
    What you are saying is basically everything physical and non physical is one, yet you can't really explain to me what non physical is..
    naturally, one's thought is a part of himself.
    same goes for consciousness.
    If you are claiming there is one big consciousness that we are all apart of, how can you examine this statement?
     
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  6. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    By quieting the noisy layers of consciousness and experiencing as cosmic consciousness. Now can this be done in our first meditation session, No. But eventually I believe it is possible for a determined soul.

    An analogy might be Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Can I myself derive and understand all the physics behind it, No. But I believe the masters in that field can and I accept the theory.

    In a similar way, I believe the many masters and adepts who have experienced these higher states of consciousness, can verify the truth of ultimate Oneness. In addition, I believe non-dualism it the highest philosophical product of a wisdom tradition (eastern/Indian/Vedic) that bests explains (paranormal) human phenomena not explainable through materialistic models.
     
  7. justsomecultist

    justsomecultist New Member

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    Chaos bro here. My road to my current spiritual/religious/philosophic beliefs is kind of a complicated one. Was raised "christian" but it was never forced on me that strongly and eventually I gave it up.

    At first I was a very staunch atheist/materialist but I wasn't completely happy with it and decided to explore non-christian religions. I studied a number of them, including wicca, satanism, buddhism, and several others.

    The one I eventually settled into was Chaos Magic. There are a few reasons for this. Not insignificant among them was the lack of anything resembling a moral code or doctrine. My moral beliefs tend fairly strictly towards moral nihilism, and a large part of what turned me away from some other religions were the moral assertions they made.

    Another big draw to Chaos Magic for me was its compatibility with my already-held scientific views. The final straw for my first departure from christianity was my inability to reconcile my beliefs in science with conservative/fundamentalist christian ideas like young-earth creationism and denial of climate change and evolution.

    Now that I've explained how I arrived at my current spiritual views, time to answer the main question.

    Do I believe in god(s)?

    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: I don't believe in the Abrahamaic god specifically. I don't believe in any god claimed to be omnipotent, or in any definition of god which posits omnipotence as a key feature. I don't believe in any specific named god at the moment, but I do sometimes adopt a temporary belief in named deities from various religions for the purpose of ritual. In general I don't believe in any gods, but tomorrow I may well be extolling the virtues of Ninurta or Pan.
     
  8. Segev Moran

    Segev Moran Well-Known Member

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    Religion:
    Wow
    So once you achieve the ability to "become one" with this one consciousness, it means you become aware of other peoples consciousness?
    Will you then be able to experience the others consciousness?

    That's a wrong analogy...
    Einstein's theory describe how things work.
    Anyone in the universe, regardless whether he knows the theory or not, is experiencing the things the theory describes.
    I don't need to learn about gravity for it to affect me.
    What you are suggesting, is something that will only have an affect on me, when I learn how to learn it...
    Einstein's theories describe a way to understand what we are already experiencing (without exceptions), yet the theory you suggest describe things that are effecting only specific people with a specific knowledge or experience.
    Yet again, Einstein didn't experience gravity and told us how to experience it!
    We are all experiencing gravity.. Einstein Just presents a way to understand the way the forces in our universe work and how to predict them.
     
  9. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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    Yes, Brahman experiences all. However a human being has to come down from that level to be functional as an individual.
    Everyone is also Brahman whether they understand it or not.
    You don't need to understand cosmic consciousness to experience individual consciousness.
    Again, I am saying it effects you before, beginning and after understanding. (much like a detailed understanding of gravitational physics).
    Einstein gives us a way to have a more sophisticated understanding of science, not differently than masters of other fields of knowledge give us more sophisticated understandings in their fields.
     
  10. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta and Spiritualist and Pantheist
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  11. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Do you think that causality and infinite regress alone prove a God that disapproves homosexuals acts, and beer?

    Please show me how.

    If you can't, as I expect, please show me why you believe in a God that disapproves homosexual acts, and beer.

    Does that God have enough evidence, because of prophets, miracles and stuff, that would make causality and infinite regress totally superflous in order to prove Him true, anyway?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #31 viole, Oct 26, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  12. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    I didn't tell that if u prove the existence of God he definitely forbids wine or homosexuality

    Instead I tried to say that most of the atheists are mere slaves of their passions and unbridled desires

    So they don't decide by reason rather their reasons are subordinate of their passions

    These people clearly aren't seekers after the truth
    I wanted to say u need to pure yourself form your passions and then decide

    Do u expect a person that is rich and all his asset is by usury to embrace a religion that forbids it????

    And
    We don't have much time during our lives to debunk thousands of religions

    None divine religions I mean human made don't need to be debunked
    And By causality and infinite regress we can prove the unity and uniqueness of God and by prophets's era we can prove which one is legitimate for practice
     
    #32 interminable, Oct 26, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  13. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    It's interesting to know that I went to jail to preach for prisoners
    None of them believed that they were criminals all of them thought they were innocent

    See
    They didn't want to accept their faults and accused judges
    They stare at me and told big lies

    The same about lecherous people
    They say : where is god we can not see him!

    Even Richard Dawkins says universe can't be created from nothing so it must be something

    BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO ACCEPT A SPECIFIC god OR RELIGION JUST BECAUSE OF HIS PASSION
     
  14. Segev Moran

    Segev Moran Well-Known Member

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    Religion:
    Wow
    Why, Spank you ;)
     
  15. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That is not even remotely true, and the implication that atheism somehow figures into that diagnosis is... quite odd really.

    Why would one thing relate to the other? If anything, the correlation is negative if it even exists.

    Uh, sorry, that is a straight lie.

    Oh, I don't think that is remotely true either.

    There are quite a lot of very good reasons to debung at least Christianity (which is nocive in many of its manifestations) and Islam (same, but worse).

    Good luck with that, because that is both pointless and unworkable.
     
  16. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    In fact we can never understand it, for who is the one who is going to understand ?.
     
  17. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    If u ask a person about his bigotry he will say no I'm impartial
    In this case we can't see our faults because we like ourselves and our actions
    Like the person that is in love with...
    He can't see her faults because love doesn't allow him
    So history is a best testimony for my claims

    Fact sometimes looks like a lie
    But in this case NOT

    I've no knowledge about Christianity
    So what did u find bad about Islam?

    Both are workable
    Just u need to contemplate

    Can ""noting "" create something??
    Can something be originated from ""noting""????

    How can u reject these obvious laws of logic???
     
    #37 interminable, Oct 27, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  18. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Religion:
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    It gives far too much weight to scripture at the expense of individual reflection, courage and initiative.

    It makes too much of an effort to encourage loyalty to the tribe at the expense of acknowledgement of the connection with humanity as a whole.

    It is entirely too reliant on belief in God for anyone's good.

    It is has far too much of a need for self-control mechanisms which it does not have.

    It is too reliant on belief in God and commits the very grave mistake of demanding everyone to have it.

    It is way too tied to a very specific, rigid and ultimately unworkable expectation of family roles that fails to acknowledge the existence and dignity of LGBTIQ sexual/social roles.

    All in all, it strikes me as not a religion at all.

    It seems all the world like a doctrine for tribal union that is badly outdated for the current population levels, and was lacking in means for encouraging religious wisdom and moral courage even when it began.


    Oh yes I can. Quite easily and effortlessly, as it turns out. Because they are neither laws nor logical.

    What you are reciting are instead arbitrary premises that do not even have a clear connection to what some call "the problem of existence".

    It is just dogma, and of a particularly blunt variety at that. Not good doctrine, and certainly not a "law of logic".

    You Muslims think of that as an argument to convince others of the need for a Creator God. But such was never and will never be the case. It is no argument and it was never necessary.

    Instead, you have been teaching each other quite arbitrarily that there is such a need and decreeing that it can only be "solved" by belief in a Creator God. But that is not true, was never true, and will never be true.

    It is an entirely unnecessary belief, and worse still, it is a belief that distracts people from badly needed true religion.
     
  19. Ana.J

    Ana.J Active Member

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    I believe in God because I want to believe that there is a Supreme Being. It makes me feel safer and implies that there is a sense in our existence.
     
  20. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    It's not true just the opposite
    there is no scared book praises and recommends science and intellectual knowledge for man as much as does the Quran
    The prophet says
    تفکر ساعة خیر من عبادة ستین سنة
    One hour contemplating is better than worshiping god 60 years
    That's not true too
    Since we don't have any special tribe and actually I've never heard of.
    Arabs in past used to live with their tribes and somehow in Iraq and Yemen there is such but it has nothing to do with Islam because they lived like that before Islam and instead Islam came to remove such things they used to battle for a century to defend their tribes
    Islam came to say defend the truth even it is against your clan
    The prophet says
    لا فضل لعربی علی عجمی و لا ابیض علی الاسود الا باالتقوی
    There is no superiority for Arabs on others and for white on black except for piousness and piety

    That's completely true
    I told before if we accept that God has created everything so his oneness should be the cornerstone of every teaching in religion
    U know what?
    God had a purpose of creation and his purpose is himself since there is nothing greater than him
    Every perfections that u see originated from him
    So he possesses them all
    God insists instead of being stuck with his creatures try to find the creator himself
    This is the ultimate goal of our life

    If something is supposed to be real it would be God
    We are all dependent and have nothing from ourselves
    That is all because Satan and our ego aren't jobless they put all their effort to distort human being from truth
    All the insistence of god on these things are because of the strength of our enemies
    Having a good society is a big help to reach spiritual goals

    They are sick they should look for remedy
    Didn't I tell we judge God and religion by our desires not any reason

    Such thing doesn't exist in animal life so how could be in human life??

    Every human being knows these are against the nature of human

    Thank u!
    How logically u responded to my claims!!!

    And never forget that u repeated several times : far too much
    Some people may say it's too far
    And some may say it's very

    So it's not a problem
    The criterion isn't our ego
     
    #40 interminable, Oct 27, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
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