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Featured Do you believe in God?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Segev Moran, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    Yes, I do.

    I honestly cannot believe otherwise. It is believed in some views that well designed, balanced, variant, wide and huge creation(s) including ecosystems just came to be without a creator involved, but they cannot believe a chair or a car, for example, came to be on their own. That's the main point that keeps me holding up believing in God as defined in my beliefs that includes a creator.
     
    #41 Smart_Guy, Oct 27, 2016
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  2. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    In the interest of fairness, I must point out that the expression "for anyone's good" does not have positive connotations in English and is in fact a statement of disapproval.

    I thank you for your honest reply. It is a shame that we can't really agree on much at all on these matters.
     
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  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Ecosystems - most living systems actually - are by nature self-regulating.

    You might see that as evidence of a god, of course, either by the monotheistic, deistic or pantheistic perspective.

    It is all in the eyes of the beholder, I think.
     
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  4. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    And what lead you to conclude that your prophets are more reliable than the prophets of the competition? Apart from being born in a part of the world that believes prophet X and not prophet Y. Of course.

    Bacause they got cab service to Heaven on a winged horse? Or because they could predict the future? Or because they did something that was possible only with God's help?

    If that is the case, and you have strong evidence thereof, wouldn't this marvelous happenstance be sufficient to prove that your brand of God is true, independently from causality, infinite regress or other over complicated and superflous sophisms that require a degree in philosophy in order to be understood?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #44 viole, Oct 27, 2016
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  5. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    No arguing that, my friend.

    Still, I keep looking one step further to examples I have in mind, and find the same applies. So the nature self-regulation, for example, elements had to also be put there by someone.
     
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  6. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    We believe in all prophets and their books but authentic one
    So the most important question is which of them should we follow right now?
    The answer is very simple the one that is the latest
    If we are supposed to act according to the previous one not the last so what is the purpose of God for sending him??? Especially when the last one has new book and claims I'm the last prophet

    I'm Iranian and zoroastrianism belongs to this land but it doesn't mean that I should obey this religion

    Some people don't accept causality that our life is based on so how can I show them the legitimacy of a religion by such things that u mentioned???

    The existence of god should be proved by rational and logical arguments this is the only way for everybody that is seeking the truth
     
  7. buddhist

    buddhist Well-Known Member

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    @Segev Moran , I believe that many limited deities exist. An "Almighty God" cannot exist in the way that the Abrahamic & other religions perceive of it, because if it was truly Eternal and Infinite, it could never act, because acting involves being limited within time.
     
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  8. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Yet, I still do not see the point. On pure logical grounds.

    It is like having a secret video of bigfoot, and spend time defending the existence of bigfoot by speculating about some footprints and hair in some remote valley that would fit, maybe, with an anthropomorphic hairy beast of unknown origin.

    I would say it would be much more efficient to show that video. Not only it would show that that hairy beast exists, but also that it is bigfoot.

    Anything that justifies your particular faith (for instance Islam vs. Zoorastrianism) should be based on evidence, mainly in terms of miracles and stuff, that would make abstract arguments about the existence of a generic God completely superflous.

    So, we can logically conclude that any philosophical argument for the existence of God, as used by the pious, defeats the reliability of reports of miracles and stuff, that justify the particular faith he holds.

    In other words: if there was really sufficient evidence that your prophet flew to Heaven on a winged horse, why do you need to prove God using much more indirect ways?

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #48 viole, Oct 28, 2016
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  9. ak.yonathan

    ak.yonathan Active Member

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    I'm sorry, but do you understand how onmipotence works?
     
  10. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    This is the most honest answer I have ever heard to that question. If all believers were similarly honest we wouldn't have all this friction.
     
  11. ak.yonathan

    ak.yonathan Active Member

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    How can you tell if someone is telling the truth or not? Why would you instantly assume that another answer besides this one is lying?
     
  12. Acim

    Acim Revelation all the time

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    I am a gnostic person. Belief alone doesn't capture it.

    Short version of how I got here:
    - raised religious, but not in a strict, orthodox way.
    - was pretty much agnostic by age 14 (maybe earlier) and that lasted until around age 20 (while in college)
    - read a doctrine that did strongly influence my understandings, plus had exposure to several world religions (by visiting their places of congregating/worship). Plus had been a poet from around age 16 and up, and somewhat came to understand (by age 20) that I was (at times) channeling information that I honestly did not see as being my own, more like a shared, intersubjective wisdom.
    - from around age 20 to age 23, I was believer (theist), but arguably still rather agnostic.
    - had my first genuine mystical experience. Perhaps in another post I can elaborate on this, as I have (already) elsewhere on RF. Given what I did experience, it would be very challenging after this to go back to agnostic or less. This experience lasted, in a mystical way, for around 3 months.
    - From around age 23 to 38, I was fairly strong believer, and other than the mystical experience and occasional 'glimpses' I didn't feel a viable connection to spirit. It was more theoretical, and I can explain that, but for now not seeing reason to.
    - Around age 38 (and since), I have experience/ability to connect directly with Spirit within me, to ask whatever I find necessary to ask. For a little while, that was on larger issues (i.e. how might justice work in the world from Spirit's perspective). Mostly though, it was my asking about whatever personal items I, or those close to me, were facing, to get a different, more enlightened perspective.

    Intellectually, for sure. I've not forgotten what it meant for me to be agnostic, and how skepticism (the real kind) can help in keeping me open minded, about my mystical experiences. But I'm also skeptical about that which I'm skeptical about. I generally don't shy away from going down 'rabbit holes.'

    I can. I would say there is a rejection filter in place for you that you actively filter understandings through. Such that if we were talking about 'things in your life' (and if possible more like us talking about what you did today), I would be able to identify how it is Spirit at the helm of what you experienced, how it was received by you, in actuality. But due to the rejection filter, you would exercise what I think you think is 'healthy denial' and thus move away from what I think you think is mythical explanations. Yet, not really realizing that you are actually replacing it with another mythical explanation, which you are, in actuality, giving all the meaning it has for you, to the experience. So, even if we were BFF, you could, rather easily maintain such a position whenever we converse, but it would plausibly be discernible to me what you are up to, and how Spirit is still at the helm of that. Such that, you could maintain position of (alleged) atheism. Given that I would know you are in Good Hands, it wouldn't consistently matter to me to try and convince you intellectually of what I pretty much to fully understand to be true for you. So, I'd probably show up to you as respectful of where you are, your desire to be free from (religious) myths, and your desire to be whatever it is you are now choosing to be, in terms of physical existence.

    Yeah, on that last one, I would stand with you in face of anyone that wishes to damn you to a hell. The other stuff, if we talked often enough, you'd possibly filter it in similar way, but I would truly do my best to honor where you are right now, but look to offer deeper insight(s).

    I think when stuff hits the fan it is you (and/or ancestors) bringing it to you to help show you are now capable to get over that, whereas perhaps previously you had a rejection filter in place to say (or even experience) that you are not able to get over/around that. My understanding of God's perspective is that you are entirely Perfect as you are right now, and in essence God is patiently waiting for your realization on this, so that direct communication can once again occur.
     
  13. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    He is the creator of time and space

    Besides time is not an entity

    An unlimited existence should be immaterial and when he hadn't created anything there wasn't any time

    By creation time began
     
  14. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    Understood

    But u overlooked people's capacities and their way of accepting things

    Most of the people don't think carefully that's why they live with their parent's religion and nearly don't change that

    Your statements somehow is true about these people and they easily accept miracles and super natural actions
    But how much is it worth???
    They are subject to lose their religion in every moments

    Some people don't get convince so easily so they question miracles and everything u prepare for them even causality and even their existence themselves
    So the only way for these that are growing is just logical and philosophical arguments

    If u take a look at history infidels of mecca called the prophet wizard ,magician,poet ,insane ,liar, and...

    There were not after intellectual arguments so prophet just brought them miracles and foretelling the future
    Even the Holy Qur'an itself claims I'm a miracle and Noone can bring like me
    And STILL NOONE COULD DO THAT


    But after the prophet people began to argue about religion and had their own interpretation of religion so pious scholars prepared hundreds of logical arguments to keep the religion as it was


    And now
    Some say prophet was jew and his book isn't his he wasn't Iliterate and all the prophets weren't prophets they were just spiritual men ,revelation isn't proved yet and ........

    Add to these problems Satan
     
    #54 interminable, Oct 28, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
  15. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, if I knew there was Satan, I would still not need Kalam in ordr to prove God, I think.

    So, it all boils down to the main question: why do you believe in Allah? Why don't you believe in Christianity, for instance?

    I already know why, but I would like to read what you think.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  16. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    If we already knew there is god and Satan and ....FAITH WAS COMPLETELY SENSELESS

    By faith we will grow and reach an unlimited beauty and perfection that is called God

    This reward is given to those who put their trust in God

    And Christians have some versions of bible so it shows they are written by human not god
     
  17. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    So, not sure about those trips on a winged horse, are we?

    Does that apply to children who die of cancer, too?

    My Hindu friend says the same. My Christian friend, too. About their gods. Should I believe them? If not, why should I believe you? Do you have certified miracles that make it obvious that your god exists?

    The fact that there is only one version of a book, does not entail that it has been written by God. There is only one version of the Odyssey, I believe, that does not entail that Zeus exists.

    In the same way, different versions of a book do not entail that the Christian God is false. It just entails that someone messed up the original.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  18. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    We will earn certainty when become gnostic
    So it's natural
    Can u sleep in a grave with a dead body beside u???
    Most of the people even don't think to do that why?
    They know he is dead but still can't believe
    Just a gnostic worships god truly
    We don't know about their capacities and their fate so just leave it to god
    I just told u the holy Quran is the eternal miracle of prophet muhammad pbuh

    Besides truth is truth I didn't tell that they were completely wrong we believe in their books and prophets
    If that book claims I'm miracle and Noone can bring like me and till now nobody could do that it does entail
    It shows at least that they aren't valid for practice and last prophet's teaching should be practiced
     
  19. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    i don't know. I never tried.

    Well, you do have a certified miracle. Even an eternal one. So, why are you still using Kalam? Do you need additional assurance?

    I am not sure they will return the courtesy.

    It is always the same. The one coming last is forced to accept something of what came first, but not the other way round.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  20. interminable

    interminable منتظر

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    Disclaimer!!!
    Do it by your own risk [emoji48] [emoji1] [emoji12] [emoji33]
    I just told u in my previous posts
    We believe to the original books and prophets not these that are in people's hands

    There are lots of verses in holy quran that reprimand Jews and Christians
     
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