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Do you believe in God?

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
Yes, I do.

I honestly cannot believe otherwise. It is believed in some views that well designed, balanced, variant, wide and huge creation(s) including ecosystems just came to be without a creator involved, but they cannot believe a chair or a car, for example, came to be on their own. That's the main point that keeps me holding up believing in God as defined in my beliefs that includes a creator.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
That's completely true
In the interest of fairness, I must point out that the expression "for anyone's good" does not have positive connotations in English and is in fact a statement of disapproval.

I thank you for your honest reply. It is a shame that we can't really agree on much at all on these matters.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Yes, I do.

I honestly cannot believe otherwise. It is believed in some views that well designed, balanced, variant, wide and huge creation(s) including ecosystems just came to be without a creator involved, but they cannot believe a chair of a car, for example, came to be on their own. That's the main point that keeps me holding up believing in God as defined in my beliefs that includes a creator.
Ecosystems - most living systems actually - are by nature self-regulating.

You might see that as evidence of a god, of course, either by the monotheistic, deistic or pantheistic perspective.

It is all in the eyes of the beholder, I think.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I didn't tell that if u prove the existence of God he definitely forbids wine or homosexuality

Instead I tried to say that most of the atheists are mere slaves of their passions and unbridled desires

So they don't decide by reason rather their reasons are subordinate of their passions

These people clearly aren't seekers after the truth
I wanted to say u need to pure yourself form your passions and then decide

Do u expect a person that is rich and all his asset is by usury to embrace a religion that forbids it????

And
We don't have much time during our lives to debunk thousands of religions

None divine religions I mean human made don't need to be debunked
And By causality and infinite regress we can prove the unity and uniqueness of God and by prophets's era we can prove which one is legitimate for practice

And what lead you to conclude that your prophets are more reliable than the prophets of the competition? Apart from being born in a part of the world that believes prophet X and not prophet Y. Of course.

Bacause they got cab service to Heaven on a winged horse? Or because they could predict the future? Or because they did something that was possible only with God's help?

If that is the case, and you have strong evidence thereof, wouldn't this marvelous happenstance be sufficient to prove that your brand of God is true, independently from causality, infinite regress or other over complicated and superflous sophisms that require a degree in philosophy in order to be understood?

Ciao

- viole
 
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Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
Ecosystems - most living systems actually - are by nature self-regulating.

You might see that as evidence of a god, of course, either by the monotheistic, deistic or pantheistic perspective.

It is all in the eyes of the beholder, I think.

No arguing that, my friend.

Still, I keep looking one step further to examples I have in mind, and find the same applies. So the nature self-regulation, for example, elements had to also be put there by someone.
 

interminable

منتظر
And what lead you to conclude that your prophets are more reliable than the prophets of the competition? Apart from being born in a part of the world that believes prophet X and not prophet Y. Of course.

Bacause they got cab service to Heaven on a winged horse? Or because they could predict the future? Or because they did something that was possible only with God's help?

If that is the case, and you have strong evidence thereof, wouldn't this marvelous happenstance be sufficient to prove that your brand of God is true, independently from causality, infinite regress or other over complicated and superflous sophisms that require a degree in philosophy in order to be understood?

Ciao

- viole
We believe in all prophets and their books but authentic one
So the most important question is which of them should we follow right now?
The answer is very simple the one that is the latest
If we are supposed to act according to the previous one not the last so what is the purpose of God for sending him??? Especially when the last one has new book and claims I'm the last prophet

I'm Iranian and zoroastrianism belongs to this land but it doesn't mean that I should obey this religion

Some people don't accept causality that our life is based on so how can I show them the legitimacy of a religion by such things that u mentioned???

The existence of god should be proved by rational and logical arguments this is the only way for everybody that is seeking the truth
 

buddhist

Well-Known Member
@Segev Moran , I believe that many limited deities exist. An "Almighty God" cannot exist in the way that the Abrahamic & other religions perceive of it, because if it was truly Eternal and Infinite, it could never act, because acting involves being limited within time.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
We believe in all prophets and their books but authentic one
So the most important question is which of them should we follow right now?
The answer is very simple the one that is the latest
If we are supposed to act according to the previous one not the last so what is the purpose of God for sending him??? Especially when the last one has new book and claims I'm the last prophet

I'm Iranian and zoroastrianism belongs to this land but it doesn't mean that I should obey this religion

Some people don't accept causality that our life is based on so how can I show them the legitimacy of a religion by such things that u mentioned???

The existence of god should be proved by rational and logical arguments this is the only way for everybody that is seeking the truth

Yet, I still do not see the point. On pure logical grounds.

It is like having a secret video of bigfoot, and spend time defending the existence of bigfoot by speculating about some footprints and hair in some remote valley that would fit, maybe, with an anthropomorphic hairy beast of unknown origin.

I would say it would be much more efficient to show that video. Not only it would show that that hairy beast exists, but also that it is bigfoot.

Anything that justifies your particular faith (for instance Islam vs. Zoorastrianism) should be based on evidence, mainly in terms of miracles and stuff, that would make abstract arguments about the existence of a generic God completely superflous.

So, we can logically conclude that any philosophical argument for the existence of God, as used by the pious, defeats the reliability of reports of miracles and stuff, that justify the particular faith he holds.

In other words: if there was really sufficient evidence that your prophet flew to Heaven on a winged horse, why do you need to prove God using much more indirect ways?

Ciao

- viole
 
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ak.yonathan

Active Member
@Segev Moran , I believe that many limited deities exist. An "Almighty God" cannot exist in the way that the Abrahamic & other religions perceive of it, because if it was truly Eternal and Infinite, it could never act, because acting involves being limited within time.
I'm sorry, but do you understand how onmipotence works?
 
I believe in God because I want to believe that there is a Supreme Being. It makes me feel safer and implies that there is a sense in our existence.
This is the most honest answer I have ever heard to that question. If all believers were similarly honest we wouldn't have all this friction.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
So I would love to hear how you became a religious / believer person?
Was it something you grew up with?
Is it a specific event that made you believe?

I am a gnostic person. Belief alone doesn't capture it.

Short version of how I got here:
- raised religious, but not in a strict, orthodox way.
- was pretty much agnostic by age 14 (maybe earlier) and that lasted until around age 20 (while in college)
- read a doctrine that did strongly influence my understandings, plus had exposure to several world religions (by visiting their places of congregating/worship). Plus had been a poet from around age 16 and up, and somewhat came to understand (by age 20) that I was (at times) channeling information that I honestly did not see as being my own, more like a shared, intersubjective wisdom.
- from around age 20 to age 23, I was believer (theist), but arguably still rather agnostic.
- had my first genuine mystical experience. Perhaps in another post I can elaborate on this, as I have (already) elsewhere on RF. Given what I did experience, it would be very challenging after this to go back to agnostic or less. This experience lasted, in a mystical way, for around 3 months.
- From around age 23 to 38, I was fairly strong believer, and other than the mystical experience and occasional 'glimpses' I didn't feel a viable connection to spirit. It was more theoretical, and I can explain that, but for now not seeing reason to.
- Around age 38 (and since), I have experience/ability to connect directly with Spirit within me, to ask whatever I find necessary to ask. For a little while, that was on larger issues (i.e. how might justice work in the world from Spirit's perspective). Mostly though, it was my asking about whatever personal items I, or those close to me, were facing, to get a different, more enlightened perspective.

Have you questioned and tried to "fight" your beliefs?

Intellectually, for sure. I've not forgotten what it meant for me to be agnostic, and how skepticism (the real kind) can help in keeping me open minded, about my mystical experiences. But I'm also skeptical about that which I'm skeptical about. I generally don't shy away from going down 'rabbit holes.'

Now, If you really are a believer, Can you speculate what is the difference between you and I?

I can. I would say there is a rejection filter in place for you that you actively filter understandings through. Such that if we were talking about 'things in your life' (and if possible more like us talking about what you did today), I would be able to identify how it is Spirit at the helm of what you experienced, how it was received by you, in actuality. But due to the rejection filter, you would exercise what I think you think is 'healthy denial' and thus move away from what I think you think is mythical explanations. Yet, not really realizing that you are actually replacing it with another mythical explanation, which you are, in actuality, giving all the meaning it has for you, to the experience. So, even if we were BFF, you could, rather easily maintain such a position whenever we converse, but it would plausibly be discernible to me what you are up to, and how Spirit is still at the helm of that. Such that, you could maintain position of (alleged) atheism. Given that I would know you are in Good Hands, it wouldn't consistently matter to me to try and convince you intellectually of what I pretty much to fully understand to be true for you. So, I'd probably show up to you as respectful of where you are, your desire to be free from (religious) myths, and your desire to be whatever it is you are now choosing to be, in terms of physical existence.

Many times i heard things like, This is what God wanted for you.. or this is all part of Gods plan... Or that is free will and of course the great promise that I will probably rot in hell for not believing in God.

Yeah, on that last one, I would stand with you in face of anyone that wishes to damn you to a hell. The other stuff, if we talked often enough, you'd possibly filter it in similar way, but I would truly do my best to honor where you are right now, but look to offer deeper insight(s).

Just to make it clear, I Have no intentions what so ever to "Believe" again.. That's not something I miss nor crave for.
I Do however will be glad to hear some of your thoughts of what "I Am doing wrong" in your POV ...
I Tried many things, I Had great beliefs, I Experimented and lived as a spiritual person for many years.

My life are great, I Have struggles and hard times, I Have ease and Successes... Nothing special for better or worse. There was no Single event I can point on and say "If that happened, There must be no God"...
Most of my years I actually believed that when **** hits the fan, It was God's way of "teaching me a lesson" about something.. Naturally, I find it absurd today...

I think when stuff hits the fan it is you (and/or ancestors) bringing it to you to help show you are now capable to get over that, whereas perhaps previously you had a rejection filter in place to say (or even experience) that you are not able to get over/around that. My understanding of God's perspective is that you are entirely Perfect as you are right now, and in essence God is patiently waiting for your realization on this, so that direct communication can once again occur.
 

interminable

منتظر
@Segev Moran , I believe that many limited deities exist. An "Almighty God" cannot exist in the way that the Abrahamic & other religions perceive of it, because if it was truly Eternal and Infinite, it could never act, because acting involves being limited within time.
He is the creator of time and space

Besides time is not an entity

An unlimited existence should be immaterial and when he hadn't created anything there wasn't any time

By creation time began
 

interminable

منتظر
Yet, I still do not see the point. On pure logical grounds.

It is like having a secret video of bigfoot, and spend time defending the existence of bigfoot by speculating about some footprints and hair in some remote valley that would fit, maybe, with an anthropomorphic hairy beast of unknown origin.

I would say it would be much more efficient to show that video. Not only it would show that that hairy beast exists, but also that it is bigfoot.

Anything that justifies your particular faith (for instance Islam vs. Zoorastrianism) should be based on evidence, mainly in terms of miracles and stuff, that would make abstract arguments about the existence of a generic God completely superflous.

So, we can logically conclude that any philosophical argument for the existence of God, as used by the pious, defeats the reliability of reports of miracles and stuff, that justify the particular faith he holds.

In other words: if there was really sufficient evidence that your prophet flew to Heaven on a winged horse, why do you need to prove God using much more indirect ways?

Ciao

- viole
Understood

But u overlooked people's capacities and their way of accepting things

Most of the people don't think carefully that's why they live with their parent's religion and nearly don't change that

Your statements somehow is true about these people and they easily accept miracles and super natural actions
But how much is it worth???
They are subject to lose their religion in every moments

Some people don't get convince so easily so they question miracles and everything u prepare for them even causality and even their existence themselves
So the only way for these that are growing is just logical and philosophical arguments

If u take a look at history infidels of mecca called the prophet wizard ,magician,poet ,insane ,liar, and...

There were not after intellectual arguments so prophet just brought them miracles and foretelling the future
Even the Holy Qur'an itself claims I'm a miracle and Noone can bring like me
And STILL NOONE COULD DO THAT


But after the prophet people began to argue about religion and had their own interpretation of religion so pious scholars prepared hundreds of logical arguments to keep the religion as it was


And now
Some say prophet was jew and his book isn't his he wasn't Iliterate and all the prophets weren't prophets they were just spiritual men ,revelation isn't proved yet and ........

Add to these problems Satan
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Understood

But u overlooked people's capacities and their way of accepting things

Most of the people don't think carefully that's why u they live with their parent's religion and nearly don't change that

Your statements somehow is true about these people and they easily accept miracles and super natural actions
But how much is it worth???
They are subject to lose their religion in every moments

Some people don't get convince so easily so they question miracles and everything u prepare for them even causality and even their existence themselves
So the only way for these that are growing is just logical and philosophical arguments

If u take a look at history infidels of mecca called the prophet wizard ,magician,poet ,insane ,liar, and...

There were not after intellectual arguments so prophet just brought them miracles and foretelling the future
Even the Holy Qur'an itself claims I'm a miracle and Noone can bring like me
And STILL NOONE COULD DO THAT


But after the prophet people began to argue about religion and had their own interpretation of religion so pious scholars prepared hundreds of logical arguments to keep the religion as it was


And now
Some say prophet was jew and his book isn't his he wasn't Iliterate and all the prophets weren't prophets they were just spiritual men ,revelation isn't proved yet and ........

Add to these problems Satan

Well, if I knew there was Satan, I would still not need Kalam in ordr to prove God, I think.

So, it all boils down to the main question: why do you believe in Allah? Why don't you believe in Christianity, for instance?

I already know why, but I would like to read what you think.

Ciao

- viole
 

interminable

منتظر
Well, if I knew there was Satan, I would still not need Kalam in ordr to prove God, I think.

So, it all boils down to the main question: why do you believe in Allah? Why don't you believe in Christianity, for instance?

I already know why, but I would like to read what you think.

Ciao

- viole
If we already knew there is god and Satan and ....FAITH WAS COMPLETELY SENSELESS

By faith we will grow and reach an unlimited beauty and perfection that is called God

This reward is given to those who put their trust in God

And Christians have some versions of bible so it shows they are written by human not god
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
If we already knew there is god and Satan and ....FAITH WAS COMPLETELY SENSELESS

So, not sure about those trips on a winged horse, are we?

By faith we will grow and reach an unlimited beauty and perfection that is called God

Does that apply to children who die of cancer, too?

This reward is given to those who put their trust in God

My Hindu friend says the same. My Christian friend, too. About their gods. Should I believe them? If not, why should I believe you? Do you have certified miracles that make it obvious that your god exists?

And Christians have some versions of bible so it shows they are written by human not god

The fact that there is only one version of a book, does not entail that it has been written by God. There is only one version of the Odyssey, I believe, that does not entail that Zeus exists.

In the same way, different versions of a book do not entail that the Christian God is false. It just entails that someone messed up the original.

Ciao

- viole
 

interminable

منتظر
So, not sure about those trips on a winged horse, are we?
We will earn certainty when become gnostic
So it's natural
Can u sleep in a grave with a dead body beside u???
Most of the people even don't think to do that why?
They know he is dead but still can't believe
Just a gnostic worships god truly
Does that apply to children who die of cancer, too?
We don't know about their capacities and their fate so just leave it to god
My Hindu friend says the same. My Christian friend, too. About their gods. Should I believe them? If not, why should I believe you? Do you have certified miracles that make it obvious that your god exists?
I just told u the holy Quran is the eternal miracle of prophet muhammad pbuh

Besides truth is truth I didn't tell that they were completely wrong we believe in their books and prophets
The fact that there is only one version of a book, does not entail that it has been written by God. There is only one version of the Odyssey, I believe, that does not entail that Zeus exists.
If that book claims I'm miracle and Noone can bring like me and till now nobody could do that it does entail
In the same way, different versions of a book do not entail that the Christian God is false. It just entails that someone messed up the original.
It shows at least that they aren't valid for practice and last prophet's teaching should be practiced
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Can u sleep in a grave with a dead body beside u???

i don't know. I never tried.

I just told u the holy Quran is the eternal miracle of prophet muhammad pbuh

Well, you do have a certified miracle. Even an eternal one. So, why are you still using Kalam? Do you need additional assurance?

Besides truth is truth I didn't tell that they were completely wrong we believe in their books and prophets

I am not sure they will return the courtesy.

It is always the same. The one coming last is forced to accept something of what came first, but not the other way round.

Ciao

- viole
 

interminable

منتظر
i don't know. I never tried.
Disclaimer!!!
Do it by your own risk [emoji48] [emoji1] [emoji12] [emoji33]
Well, you do have a certified miracle. Even an eternal one. So, why are you still using Kalam? Do you need additional assurance?
I just told u in my previous posts
I am not sure they will return the courtesy.

It is always the same. The one coming last is forced to accept something of what came first, but not the other way round.

Ciao

- viole
We believe to the original books and prophets not these that are in people's hands

There are lots of verses in holy quran that reprimand Jews and Christians
 
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