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Do you believe in God?

Aniek

New Member
"Know yourself, and you will find God."

So, if you want to know God, you have to find Him inside you.

I raised by religous family, went to boarding school to study religion, etc.
But, I always doubted God all my life. Is He really exist? My family and teachers never really answer my questions about God. They said, "Ssshh, that's taboo! You just have to believe!"
I doubted God, but I always want to know. So, i look for Him at many organization such as Muslim Brotherhood, Hizb at-Tahrir, dll. I study another religion too, but i never really interested to change my belief.

Then, i met with this man who has smile as bright as sky. He taught me to know myself. Look inside my own heart. Listen to it.
Deep inside our hearts, he said, we always want to know who create us.

I am a moslem, yes. But i believe all religion taught the same because all religions from the one root. Not, not the taught of violences, please differentiate Islam and Islamism.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
"Know yourself, and you will find God."
Really?
I Know my self.. probably more than a lot of theist people.
I Think the fact that I am an Atheist proves that point ;)
But assuming your statement is true...
What does it mean Know yourself?
I Know who I am.. how is this related to God?
I Know my most secret cravings and desires... How is that relevant to the question of God?
I know every inch of my body and I am very aware of the damages I do to it..
How is that related to the question of God?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
What does Oneness means?
That the fundamental constituent of existence is One (called God or Brahman by some). This 'One' is pure consciousness (no matter involved). This existence of the One is a fundamental mystery to a finite mind and as quantum physicist Max Planck has said; we can not get behind what consciousness is. Planck's thoughts are really in-line with what the masters/adepts of the eastern/Indian tradition have said.

The universe is a play/drama of the One. The One experiences the universe through gigazillion sparks of itself experiencing through temporary finite material forms. Eventually the spark in each of these will realize the Oneness as its basis.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm not sure I should tell the story in this thread given "God" is being defined as "an intelligent deity or force that is active in our day to day lives." But I'm going to tell a version of the story anyway, because it seems particularly important for this discussion.

The stories you tell yourself about what "god" is - the stories you were forced to listen to because of the culture you grew up in - determine your perspective about god, and theology. So much so that we are utterly blind to things outside it. I say this as someone who has been there. Then, s
ome years ago, there was a moment I read some words that helped me realize that all the ideas I'd had about "god" previously where things
other people told me about god. They were maps of territory. I was prompted to throw out those assumptions, the things my culture had taught me, and avoid confusing what people say about god with gods themselves. I was asked "if you could design a god, what would it be like?" I knew what my gods were. What I didn't know is that those things could be called gods. I was able to stop mistaking the map for the territory. If your gods aren't things you already know are real, you're doing it wrong.

Just this one's opining, of course.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
That the fundamental constituent of existence is One (called God or Brahman by some). This 'One' is pure consciousness (no matter involved). This existence of the One is a fundamental mystery to a finite mind and as quantum physicist Max Planck has said; we can not get behind what consciousness is. Planck's thoughts are really in-line with what the masters/adepts of the eastern/Indian tradition have said.

The universe is a play/drama of the One. The One experiences the universe through gigazillion sparks of itself experiencing through temporary finite material forms. Eventually the spark in each of these will realize the Oneness as its basis.
It is all sounds lovely, Yet I cannot see its impact on the universe.
What you are saying is basically everything physical and non physical is one, yet you can't really explain to me what non physical is..
naturally, one's thought is a part of himself.
same goes for consciousness.
If you are claiming there is one big consciousness that we are all apart of, how can you examine this statement?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
If you are claiming there is one big consciousness that we are all apart of, how can you examine this statement?
By quieting the noisy layers of consciousness and experiencing as cosmic consciousness. Now can this be done in our first meditation session, No. But eventually I believe it is possible for a determined soul.

An analogy might be Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Can I myself derive and understand all the physics behind it, No. But I believe the masters in that field can and I accept the theory.

In a similar way, I believe the many masters and adepts who have experienced these higher states of consciousness, can verify the truth of ultimate Oneness. In addition, I believe non-dualism it the highest philosophical product of a wisdom tradition (eastern/Indian/Vedic) that bests explains (paranormal) human phenomena not explainable through materialistic models.
 

justsomecultist

New Member
Chaos bro here. My road to my current spiritual/religious/philosophic beliefs is kind of a complicated one. Was raised "christian" but it was never forced on me that strongly and eventually I gave it up.

At first I was a very staunch atheist/materialist but I wasn't completely happy with it and decided to explore non-christian religions. I studied a number of them, including wicca, satanism, buddhism, and several others.

The one I eventually settled into was Chaos Magic. There are a few reasons for this. Not insignificant among them was the lack of anything resembling a moral code or doctrine. My moral beliefs tend fairly strictly towards moral nihilism, and a large part of what turned me away from some other religions were the moral assertions they made.

Another big draw to Chaos Magic for me was its compatibility with my already-held scientific views. The final straw for my first departure from christianity was my inability to reconcile my beliefs in science with conservative/fundamentalist christian ideas like young-earth creationism and denial of climate change and evolution.

Now that I've explained how I arrived at my current spiritual views, time to answer the main question.

Do I believe in god(s)?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: I don't believe in the Abrahamaic god specifically. I don't believe in any god claimed to be omnipotent, or in any definition of god which posits omnipotence as a key feature. I don't believe in any specific named god at the moment, but I do sometimes adopt a temporary belief in named deities from various religions for the purpose of ritual. In general I don't believe in any gods, but tomorrow I may well be extolling the virtues of Ninurta or Pan.
 

Segev Moran

Well-Known Member
By quieting the noisy layers of consciousness and experiencing as cosmic consciousness. Now can this be done in our first meditation session, No. But eventually I believe it is possible for a determined soul.
So once you achieve the ability to "become one" with this one consciousness, it means you become aware of other peoples consciousness?
Will you then be able to experience the others consciousness?

An analogy might be Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Can I myself derive and understand all the physics behind it, No. But I believe the masters in that field can and I accept the theory.
That's a wrong analogy...
Einstein's theory describe how things work.
Anyone in the universe, regardless whether he knows the theory or not, is experiencing the things the theory describes.
I don't need to learn about gravity for it to affect me.
What you are suggesting, is something that will only have an affect on me, when I learn how to learn it...
Einstein's theories describe a way to understand what we are already experiencing (without exceptions), yet the theory you suggest describe things that are effecting only specific people with a specific knowledge or experience.
In a similar way, I believe the many masters and adepts who have experienced these higher states of consciousness, can verify the truth of ultimate Oneness.
Yet again, Einstein didn't experience gravity and told us how to experience it!
We are all experiencing gravity.. Einstein Just presents a way to understand the way the forces in our universe work and how to predict them.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
So once you achieve the ability to "become one" with this one consciousness, it means you become aware of other peoples consciousness?
Will you then be able to experience the others consciousness?
Yes, Brahman experiences all. However a human being has to come down from that level to be functional as an individual.
That's a wrong analogy...
Einstein's theory describe how things work.
Anyone in the universe, regardless whether he knows the theory or not, is experiencing the things the theory describes.
Everyone is also Brahman whether they understand it or not.
I don't need to learn about gravity for it to affect me.
You don't need to understand cosmic consciousness to experience individual consciousness.
What you are suggesting, is something that will only have an affect on me, when I learn how to learn it...
Again, I am saying it effects you before, beginning and after understanding. (much like a detailed understanding of gravitational physics).
Einstein's theories describe a way to understand what we are already experiencing (without exceptions), yet the theory you suggest describe things that are effecting only specific people with a specific knowledge or experience.

Yet again, Einstein didn't experience gravity and told us how to experience it!
We are all experiencing gravity.. Einstein Just presents a way to understand the way the forces in our universe work and how to predict them.
Einstein gives us a way to have a more sophisticated understanding of science, not differently than masters of other fields of knowledge give us more sophisticated understandings in their fields.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
If u contemplate about this question and u don't believe that science is just physics and chemistry and logic is science too
I like to say that for proving the existence of god causality and infinite regress are enough

I can explain how but still I need to know your thoughts about that question

Do you think that causality and infinite regress alone prove a God that disapproves homosexuals acts, and beer?

Please show me how.

If you can't, as I expect, please show me why you believe in a God that disapproves homosexual acts, and beer.

Does that God have enough evidence, because of prophets, miracles and stuff, that would make causality and infinite regress totally superflous in order to prove Him true, anyway?

Ciao

- viole
 
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interminable

منتظر
Do you think that causality and infinite regress alone prove a God that disapproves homosexuals acts, and beer?

Please show me how.

If you can't, as I expect, please show me why you believe in a God that disapproves homosexual acts, and beer.

Does that God have enough evidence, because of prophets, miracles and stuff, that would make causality and infinite regress totally superflous in order to prove Him true, anyway?

Ciao

- viole
I didn't tell that if u prove the existence of God he definitely forbids wine or homosexuality

Instead I tried to say that most of the atheists are mere slaves of their passions and unbridled desires

So they don't decide by reason rather their reasons are subordinate of their passions

These people clearly aren't seekers after the truth
I wanted to say u need to pure yourself form your passions and then decide

Do u expect a person that is rich and all his asset is by usury to embrace a religion that forbids it????

And
We don't have much time during our lives to debunk thousands of religions

None divine religions I mean human made don't need to be debunked
And By causality and infinite regress we can prove the unity and uniqueness of God and by prophets's era we can prove which one is legitimate for practice
 
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interminable

منتظر
It's interesting to know that I went to jail to preach for prisoners
None of them believed that they were criminals all of them thought they were innocent

See
They didn't want to accept their faults and accused judges
They stare at me and told big lies

The same about lecherous people
They say : where is god we can not see him!

Even Richard Dawkins says universe can't be created from nothing so it must be something

BUT HE DOESN'T WANT TO ACCEPT A SPECIFIC god OR RELIGION JUST BECAUSE OF HIS PASSION
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Instead I tried to say that most of the atheists are mere slaves of their passions and unbridled desires

So they don't decide by reason rather their reasons are subordinate of their passions

That is not even remotely true, and the implication that atheism somehow figures into that diagnosis is... quite odd really.

Why would one thing relate to the other? If anything, the correlation is negative if it even exists.

These people clearly aren't seekers after the truth
Uh, sorry, that is a straight lie.

I wanted to say u need to pure yourself form your passions and then decide

Do u expect a person that is rich and all his asset is by usury to embrace a religion that forbids it????

And
We don't have much time during our lives to debunk thousands of religions

None divine religions don't need to be debunked
Oh, I don't think that is remotely true either.

There are quite a lot of very good reasons to debung at least Christianity (which is nocive in many of its manifestations) and Islam (same, but worse).

And By causality and infinite regress we can prove the unity and uniqueness of God and by prophets's era we can prove which one is legitimate for practice

Good luck with that, because that is both pointless and unworkable.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
No, it is the spark of divine consciousness in all living things. (consciousness is not a physical thing in this view; also 'Force' is not really a correct term). As, I said it takes time to understand what this non-dual view is really saying.
In fact we can never understand it, for who is the one who is going to understand ?.
 

interminable

منتظر
That is not even remotely true, and the implication that atheism somehow figures into that diagnosis is... quite odd really.

Why would one thing relate to the other? If anything, the correlation is negative if it even exists.

If u ask a person about his bigotry he will say no I'm impartial
In this case we can't see our faults because we like ourselves and our actions
Like the person that is in love with...
He can't see her faults because love doesn't allow him
So history is a best testimony for my claims

Uh, sorry, that is a straight lie.

Fact sometimes looks like a lie
But in this case NOT

Oh, I don't think that is remotely true either.

There are quite a lot of very good reasons to debung at least Christianity (which is nocive in many of its manifestations) and Islam (same, but worse).
I've no knowledge about Christianity
So what did u find bad about Islam?

Good luck with that, because that is both pointless and unworkable.

Both are workable
Just u need to contemplate

Can ""noting "" create something??
Can something be originated from ""noting""????

How can u reject these obvious laws of logic???
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I've no knowledge about Christianity
So what did u find bad about Islam?
It gives far too much weight to scripture at the expense of individual reflection, courage and initiative.

It makes too much of an effort to encourage loyalty to the tribe at the expense of acknowledgement of the connection with humanity as a whole.

It is entirely too reliant on belief in God for anyone's good.

It is has far too much of a need for self-control mechanisms which it does not have.

It is too reliant on belief in God and commits the very grave mistake of demanding everyone to have it.

It is way too tied to a very specific, rigid and ultimately unworkable expectation of family roles that fails to acknowledge the existence and dignity of LGBTIQ sexual/social roles.

All in all, it strikes me as not a religion at all.

It seems all the world like a doctrine for tribal union that is badly outdated for the current population levels, and was lacking in means for encouraging religious wisdom and moral courage even when it began.


Both are workable
Just u need to contemplate

Can ""noting "" create something??
Can something be originated from ""noting""????

How can u reject these obvious laws of logic???

Oh yes I can. Quite easily and effortlessly, as it turns out. Because they are neither laws nor logical.

What you are reciting are instead arbitrary premises that do not even have a clear connection to what some call "the problem of existence".

It is just dogma, and of a particularly blunt variety at that. Not good doctrine, and certainly not a "law of logic".

You Muslims think of that as an argument to convince others of the need for a Creator God. But such was never and will never be the case. It is no argument and it was never necessary.

Instead, you have been teaching each other quite arbitrarily that there is such a need and decreeing that it can only be "solved" by belief in a Creator God. But that is not true, was never true, and will never be true.

It is an entirely unnecessary belief, and worse still, it is a belief that distracts people from badly needed true religion.
 

Ana.J

Active Member
I believe in God because I want to believe that there is a Supreme Being. It makes me feel safer and implies that there is a sense in our existence.
 

interminable

منتظر
It gives far too much weight to scripture at the expense of individual reflection, courage and initiative.

It's not true just the opposite
there is no scared book praises and recommends science and intellectual knowledge for man as much as does the Quran
The prophet says
تفکر ساعة خیر من عبادة ستین سنة
One hour contemplating is better than worshiping god 60 years
It makes too much of an effort to encourage loyalty to the tribe at the expense of acknowledgement of the connection with humanity as a whole.
That's not true too
Since we don't have any special tribe and actually I've never heard of.
Arabs in past used to live with their tribes and somehow in Iraq and Yemen there is such but it has nothing to do with Islam because they lived like that before Islam and instead Islam came to remove such things they used to battle for a century to defend their tribes
Islam came to say defend the truth even it is against your clan
The prophet says
لا فضل لعربی علی عجمی و لا ابیض علی الاسود الا باالتقوی
There is no superiority for Arabs on others and for white on black except for piousness and piety

It is entirely too reliant on belief in God for anyone's good.

That's completely true
I told before if we accept that God has created everything so his oneness should be the cornerstone of every teaching in religion
U know what?
God had a purpose of creation and his purpose is himself since there is nothing greater than him
Every perfections that u see originated from him
So he possesses them all
God insists instead of being stuck with his creatures try to find the creator himself
This is the ultimate goal of our life

If something is supposed to be real it would be God
We are all dependent and have nothing from ourselves
It is has far too much of a need for self-control mechanisms which it does not have.
It is too reliant on belief in God and commits the very grave mistake of demanding everyone to have it.

That is all because Satan and our ego aren't jobless they put all their effort to distort human being from truth
All the insistence of god on these things are because of the strength of our enemies
Having a good society is a big help to reach spiritual goals

It is way too tied to a very specific, rigid and ultimately unworkable expectation of family roles that fails to acknowledge the existence and dignity of LGBTIQ sexual/social roles.

All in all, it strikes me as not a religion at all.
They are sick they should look for remedy
Didn't I tell we judge God and religion by our desires not any reason

Such thing doesn't exist in animal life so how could be in human life??

Every human being knows these are against the nature of human

Oh yes I can. Quite easily and effortlessly, as it turns out. Because they are neither laws nor logical.

What you are reciting are instead arbitrary premises that do not even have a clear connection to what some call "the problem of existence".

It is just dogma, and of a particularly blunt variety at that. Not good doctrine, and certainly not a "law of logic".

You Muslims think of that as an argument to convince others of the need for a Creator God. But such was never and will never be the case. It is no argument and it was never necessary.

Instead, you have been teaching each other quite arbitrarily that there is such a need and decreeing that it can only be "solved" by belief in a Creator God. But that is not true, was never true, and will never be true.

It is an entirely unnecessary belief, and worse still, it is a belief that distracts people from badly needed true religion.
Thank u!
How logically u responded to my claims!!!

And never forget that u repeated several times : far too much
Some people may say it's too far
And some may say it's very

So it's not a problem
The criterion isn't our ego
 
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