Do American Evangelicals and Fundamentalists Lack the Social Conscience of Jesus Christ?

[Windwalker]

The OP was too black/white for me. Insert the word "some" or even "many" and I agree. But there are evangelicals who do try to live the message of Jesus and serve the "least".

Yeah, I know. I was part of one of these groups back when I was younger. Even though I was looking for bits of corn in the pig slop to nourish my body with, the overall effect was negative and had to be broken free from.

In my experience, and it's hard to put all of that into words, there were ones which were sincere, but its hard to tell if its just saying all that rhetoric of what others said because that's what you're supposed to believe to be part of them, but in your secret heart you know it is wrong, or you're just an ******* who hides their dirt behind the name of Jesus, doing everything contrary to him and his teachings, all while praising him. These are non-spiritual people, using a tight frame of religion to hide their sins behind.

Those that have softer hearts and souls, may or may not be able to find their way free of them, so they may still be trapped in the disease of all that, which generally is reflected in the leadership. If I meet such souls, I try to encourage them to look to what their hearts tell them, and not be married to the idea you need to believe all the rest.

 

[Windwalker]

He prays for this to happen, reportedly. This prayer of his is made in John 17, but he predicts lots of things will happen and that there will be trouble. I don't think many people have obtained his social conscience, yet. We are talking about no longer living like normal people and spending all of our time focused on service. It is a high bar.

It's also an artificial bar. The only real bar is a lack of genuine compassion.

 

[sun rise]

Yeah, I know. I was part of one of these groups back when I was younger. Even though I was looking for bits of corn in the pig slop to nourish my body with, the overall effect was negative and had to be broken free from.

In my experience, and it's hard to put all of that into words, there were ones which were sincere, but its hard to tell if its just saying all that rhetoric of what others said because that's what you're supposed to believe to be part of them, but in your secret heart you know it is wrong, or you're just an ******* who hides their dirt behind the name of Jesus, doing everything contrary to him and his teachings, all while praising him. These are non-spiritual people, using a tight frame of religion to hide their sins behind.

Those that have softer hearts and souls, may or may not be able to find their way free of them, so they may still be trapped in the disease of all that, which generally is reflected in the leadership. If I meet such souls, I try to encourage them to look to what their hearts tell them, and not be married to the idea you need to believe all the rest.

I'd express what you wrote more neutrally as the difference between the exoteric and the esoteric. Many who follow the exoteric are locked into what you've written about "supposed to believe" and, as it were, falling into the Biblical "gnats" and "camels" hole.

 

[metis]

The work of Franklin Graham and Samaritan's Purse is only one example. They are right there to meet needs during every disaster, in this country and around the world.

But that's only one side of him, and the other side is quite different.

 

[metis]

Do American Evangelicals and fundamentalists lack the social conscience of Jesus Christ?

Seems that about 3/4 or so of them don't as no way should they be blindly supporting a president with Trump's audacity and lack of even the most basic morals, including saying he doesn't need God's forgiveness and that he doesn't pray. Imagine Jesus saying "Bring the little children unto me so I can have them put into cages".

 

[metis]

The seem to have completely forgotten the Sermon on the Mount.

And the Parable of the Sheep & Goats (Matt. 25).

 

[shmogie]

Absolutely.

The social conscience of Jesus, particularly his outreach and inclusiveness towards the most marginalised and discriminated members of society; his fiery denunciations of wealth hoarding at the expense of those at the bottom end of the economy and his call to subvert all hierarchies based upon dominance and privilege, are evidently some of his most distinguishing characteristics.

If you lack these, then you are missing what made Jesus Jesus as opposed to just another preacher in a succession of radical Jewish prophets harking back to Micah and Isaiah.

As I always like to quote, the Jewish scholar Geza Vermes believed that Jesus' association with people scapegoated as 'sinners' by the mainstream, orthodox religious establishment (the holiness system and ritual puritans), was the factor that differentiated him more than any other from his contemporaries and predecessors.

In the postscript to Jesus the Jew, he described this as constituting what was special about the teaching of Jesus, saying this:

In one respect, more than any other, Jesus differed from both his contemporaries and even his prophetic predecessors. The prophets spoke on behalf of the honest poor, and defended the widows and the fatherless, those oppressed and exploited by the wicked, rich and powerful. Jesus went further. In addition to proclaiming these blessed, he actually took his stand among the pariahs of his world, those despised by the respectable. Sinners were his table-companions and the ostracised tax-collectors and prostitutes his friends.

[Jesus the Jew, Geza Vermes, 1994, p. 196]

​

Practically all historical Jesus scholars concur that this was the single most important aspect of his ministry that made him different to anyone who had come before him.

Whatever motivated this unique outlook - whether the belief in a coming great eschatological intervention by God in history, or political radicalism or subversive wisdom teachings, scholars disagree widely on this - the outlook itself and it's stark social conscience are not up for debate.

Yes, Jesus associated with the lowest and most marginalized of society, but why ? Did he just dig hanging out with them, drinking wine, because he felt sorry for them, and enjoyed their conversation ? Uh, no.

Jesus´s overriding purpose was to bring the Good News of the salvation of God first to Israel, then to the world. In this purpose he was concerned about all people, but had special concern for those who had been rejected and discarded by the society of the time.

However, in instructing his Apostles and Disciples about sharing this good news, he was clear, present your truth, if it is rejected, move on.

Accepting the Gospel has obligations beyond love and acceptance. The Christ said the word repent as many times as he said love. No doubt he used the word repent in addressing those of low station. If they would not, not doubt he followed his own advice, and moved on.

His secondary purpose was the care and aid for the poor, sick, isolated, and ill treated, the social conscience. I agree that wealth and comfort has dimmed this for many believers, and that is a failing, hat we all need to look at ourselves, and rectify.

Nevertheless, the primary purpose of All Christians is to present the Gospel to as many as possible, and itś saving Grace. It is a life or death proposition which transcends feeding the hungry, caring for the ill, protecting the abused, for without the Gospel and itś salvation, they will be lost for eternity.

Many wrap themselves in caring, and never share the Gospel, many wrap themselves in preaching the Gospel, and never care about the daily needs of those hearing, and those who haven heard,

Christians must do both, but sharing the Gospel is and always will be the great and primary commission for us.

 

[shmogie]

Seems that about 3/4 or so of them don't as no way should they be blindly supporting a president with Trump's audacity and lack of even the most basic morals, including saying he doesn't need God's forgiveness and that he doesn't pray. Imagine Jesus saying "Bring the little children unto me so I can have them put into cages".

Politics ? Ok, lets go there, if we must. JFK, whored around in the White house, ditto for Clinton, Warren G. Harding dragged White House Maids into the White House closets, FDR had his mistress/secretary in the White House office, and in the White House when Eleanor was away.

Many presidents have been seriously morally flawed, Trump is just the worst of them.

If I voted for a President based upon a candidates morality, I probably wouldn´t vote. Trump and Clinton were the two worst candidates for President this nation has ever had, and they ran against each other. Both patholological liars, both involved in all kinds of shady deals, both ruthlessly power hungry. it was really the lesser of two evils.

I vote for a President who is most likely to help enact the policyś that I support. The Trump administration has achieved a number of them.

Strict Constructionists on the Supreme Court, almost two hundred strict Constructionists on the Federal bench, a division of DOJ to protect Christian rights, since virtually every other group and faith has had someone looking out for them. A booming economy, unemployment at itś lowest in 30 years, black unemployment the lowest it has been in 60 years, Hispanic unemployment the lowest it has been in history. Half on food stamps now off of them because they are working.

I believe in the law. I believe in borders, I believe in orderly legal immigration. The taxpayer base in this country is limited, this goose that lays the golden eggs cannot lay them for then entire world, else there would be nothing for anybody. Once there are no longer dirt poor in in Appalachia, in the inner cityś, living on the streets and when a veteran gets decent medical care, I would be happy to allow the poor uneducated and unskilled of the world in to share our largesse.

Now, as to ¨children in cages¨. Trump didn´t initiate this policy, Obama did. Why ? Because the courts decided that children of illegals could only be held for twenty days, if they were held as family units, all would be released, to disappear, to join the other 15 million illegals. Blame the activist judges, not Trump or Obama.

Paul, in Romans 13 made it clear that Christians were to follow the civil law, not encourage and make excuses for those breaking them.

Any other politics that you would like to discuss in the context of this thread ?

 

[Dell]

Do American Evangelicals and fundamentalists lack the social conscience of Jesus Christ?

If and when Jesus has a second coming, the church no doubt will have a hard to believing it... Expecially if and when he makes claim to the the wealth, position, and control of the church, and rules all nations with an iron rod as prophesied.

 

[David T]

Sooo...we should disavow any scripture that doesn't fit our worldview?

Isnt that a rul£?.

 

[David T]

Do American Evangelicals and fundamentalists lack the social conscience of Jesus Christ?

The Rorschach test is a psychological test in which subjects' perceptions of inkblots are recorded and then analyzed using psychological interpretation, complex algorithms, or both. Some psychologists use this test to examine a person's personality characteristics and emotional functioning. It has been employed to detect underlying thought disorder, especially in cases where patients are reluctant to describe their thinking processes openly.[4] The test is named after its creator, Swiss psychologist Hermann Rorschach. In the 1960s, the Rorschach was the most widely used.

 

[74x12]

Do American Evangelicals and fundamentalists lack the social conscience of Jesus Christ?

Everyone is lacking. However I must point out that in terms of charitable donations to the poor. Americans are number one in the world.

 

[Sunstone]

Everyone is lacking. However I must point out that in terms of charitable donations to the poor. Americans are number one in the world.

That's truly interesting given how much time Americans spend demonizing the poor. I guess reality is often more complex than fiction.

 

[74x12]

That's truly interesting given how much time Americans spend demonizing the poor. I guess reality is often more complex than fiction.

This does happen. You're right about that.

 

[74x12]

That's truly interesting given how much time Americans spend demonizing the poor. I guess reality is often more complex than fiction.

What do you think? Maybe this has to do with American culture. We rejected the concept of nobility or aristocracy. In Europe at the time; the idea was that you were good or decent because you were born into a "good" family. Whether poor or rich the person born into a good family was considered good.

But Americans rejected these ideas in favor of enlightenment era ideas about all men being created equal. However, it may have back fired a little bit on us because we see people with wealth as "successful" and therefore worthy of admiration. Whereas the poor we saw as "lazy" because clearly they should have worked harder. But of course the real world is not so simple. A society that glorifies the rich just for being rich and shames the poor for being poor is definitely flawed.

 

[Valjean]

A good Christian, of course, is indifferent to wealth, meek, loves her (worldwide) neighbors -- including enemies. s/he welcomes strangers, helps the poor and sick, turns the other cheek, returns good for evil. A good Christian does not discriminate by nationality, religion or sex -- all must be treated as brothers in Christ. A good Christian eschews tribalism and patriotism, and abhors all things military.

 

[blü 2]

Then why did he whip the money-changers instead of just forgiving them?

Perhaps he'd been drinking.

Nobody's perfect.

 

[Vouthon]

A good Christian, of course, is indifferent to wealth, meek, loves her (worldwide) neighbors -- including enemies. s/he welcomes strangers, helps the poor and sick, turns the other cheek, returns good for evil. A good Christian does not discriminate by nationality, religion or sex -- all must be treated as brothers in Christ. A good Christian eschews tribalism and patriotism, and abhors all things military.

You know, that's about the best and most succinct description I've read in a long time. Many thanks!

 

[BSM1]

Isnt that a rul£?.

Seems to be with most 'religious' folks I've encountered.

 

[BSM1]

A good Christian, of course, is indifferent to wealth, meek, loves her (worldwide) neighbors -- including enemies. s/he welcomes strangers, helps the poor and sick, turns the other cheek, returns good for evil. A good Christian does not discriminate by nationality, religion or sex -- all must be treated as brothers in Christ. A good Christian eschews tribalism and patriotism, and abhors all things military.

Doesn't mean a 'good Christian' has to become a door mat for the world (nor become stupid). Even Jesus told his disciples to sell their packs and buy a sword.