Difference Between Church and Star Trek?

[sealchan]

What are the similarities and differences between someone who faithfully attends church services and someone who religiously watches new Star Trek episodes?

Sounds silly...but I would argue this is a critical question regarding the nature of religious belief and practice. Will explain as the discussion progresses...

 

[Woberts]

One difference is that one will change your life forever, and the other one is Church.

 

[sealchan]

I don't know what my life would have been without Spock. Or Jesus. But Spock came first into my life.

 

[pearl]

What are the similarities and differences between someone who faithfully attends church services and someone who religiously watches new Star Trek episodes?

Whether by invitation, habit or obligation.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What are the similarities and differences between someone who faithfully attends church services and someone who religiously watches new Star Trek episodes?

Sounds silly...but I would argue this is a critical question regarding the nature of religious belief and practice. Will explain as the discussion progresses...

I don't see any relevant similarities - just differences.

The Star Trek watcher knows that what he is seeing and hearing is fiction, has no god belief, isn't engaging in magical thinking or believing by faith, has no scripture or holy book, doesn't pray (or if he does, it's not because of Star Trek or to it), has no rituals or significant icons (do any wear models of the Enterprise around their necks?), is generally not involved in a Star Trek community, only a few gather together (and then irregularly and rarel)

 

[Nakosis]

What are the similarities and differences between someone who faithfully attends church services and someone who religiously watches new Star Trek episodes?

Sounds silly...but I would argue this is a critical question regarding the nature of religious belief and practice. Will explain as the discussion progresses...

I remember hearing about this book. Never actually read it though. I remember many of the moral lessons taught by the show though.
"All I Really Need to Know I Learned from Watching Star Trek"
https://www.amazon.com/Really-Need-Know-Learned-Watching/dp/0517883864

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When I watch Star Trek (mostly TNG) I'm taking in the plot, dialogue, events, and consequences from a broad angle of philosophy to ponder those things covered in the episode.
Another huge difference is Kirk declared to the Olympians that we humans have outgrown god and he dared to question god, and Picard refused to become a god, refused to kneel before a god, and viewed such religious superstitions and primitive and unfortunate. Star Trek also celebrates and cherishes sex and sexuality (including homosexuals and transgenders), very much the opposite of church.

I don't see any relevant similarities - just differences.

The Star Trek watcher knows that what he is seeing and hearing is fiction, has no god belief, isn't engaging in magical thinking or believing by faith, has no scripture or holy book, doesn't pray (or if he does, it's not because of Star Trek or to it), has no rituals or significant icons (do any wear models of the Enterprise around their necks?), is generally not involved in a Star Trek community, only a few gather together (and then irregularly and rarel)

Even under Rodenberry Star Trek still got on the merchandise band wagon, and there are IDIC pins and necklaces. And it's not surprising that people would wear them, as the Vulcan philosophy seems a generalized blending of Eastern philosophy amplified by 100.

 

[sealchan]

I don't see any relevant similarities - just differences.

The Star Trek watcher knows that what he is seeing and hearing is fiction, has no god belief, isn't engaging in magical thinking or believing by faith, has no scripture or holy book, doesn't pray (or if he does, it's not because of Star Trek or to it), has no rituals or significant icons (do any wear models of the Enterprise around their necks?), is generally not involved in a Star Trek community, only a few gather together (and then irregularly and rarel)

Au contraire!

Anytime anyone engages in a fiction they are engaging in "magical thinking". We all know that time travel is not possible by the current laws of physics, that there is no sound in space and that transporter technology is anything but clearly possible. Yet we accept these technologies on faith for the sake of the enjoyment of the show.

I haven't been to any cosplay conventions but wouldn't that overwhelmingly contradict what you are saying?

Besides that is extra-curricular activity on the normal scale for what qualifies as "I participate in my religion".

Now I agree that the Star Trek fan knowingly allows themselves the momentary freedom to succomb to their imagination whereas most church goers have a literalistic attitude toward their faith...yes this is a difference of no small note.

 

[sealchan]

Now I'm not trying to equate people who watch Star Trek with church goers...but I am wanting to show that we all have certain needs and that a show like Star Trek can be understood to fill many of those needs at least on a level on par with your average weekly church goer.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I don't see any relevant similarities - just differences.

The Star Trek watcher knows that what he is seeing and hearing is fiction, has no god belief, isn't engaging in magical thinking or believing by faith, has no scripture or holy book, doesn't pray (or if he does, it's not because of Star Trek or to it), has no rituals or significant icons (do any wear models of the Enterprise around their necks?), is generally not involved in a Star Trek community, only a few gather together (and then irregularly and rarel)

You obviously have never seen or attended a Star Trek convention...

 

[JoshuaTree]

I have always enjoyed all things star trek, even voyager lol. Remember way back in star trek the motion picture when Spock renounced all emotion to embrace pure logic only to later discover that who he was was so much more than what he had become (and cried)? I think Spock's transformation parallels religion in that many people perceive religion to be an equation to be solved rather than a shared expression of their spiritual enlightenment. Spock came to the enlightened realization that the "sin" of emotion never really was and cried for his brother(s) who were unable to realize this.

Matthew 23:13-15 New International Version (NIV)
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

 

[LuisDantas]

What are the similarities and differences between someone who faithfully attends church services and someone who religiously watches new Star Trek episodes?

There may be none. Or they may be in entirely different situations.

Fiction may be taken as a simple time-passer, or it may provide symbolic content for one to project meaning into.

Church service has the very same possibilities, as well as many others of its own. It depends a lot on the person and, to a lesser extent (ideally a lot lesser) on the church.

 

[sealchan]

When I watch Star Trek (mostly TNG) I'm taking in the plot, dialogue, events, and consequences from a broad angle of philosophy to ponder those things covered in the episode.
Another huge difference is Kirk declared to the Olympians that we humans have outgrown god and he dared to question god, and Picard refused to become a god, refused to kneel before a god, and viewed such religious superstitions and primitive and unfortunate. Star Trek also celebrates and cherishes sex and sexuality (including homosexuals and transgenders), very much the opposite of church.

Even under Rodenberry Star Trek still got on the merchandise band wagon, and there are IDIC pins and necklaces. And it's not surprising that people would wear them, as the Vulcan philosophy seems a generalized blending of Eastern philosophy amplified by 100.

What is great about Star Trek for me is when it cares to/dares to reflect on the nature of divinity. As a Christian I DO NOT see this as any kind of threat to my belief. Nor do I see science as such. Star Trek provides us with a fantasy that allows us to reflect on our past history through the fiction of a future potential story which analygizes/allegorizes that past and current experience. It has very definite moral boundaries. It even has created one which is just now becoming relevant to our real world opportunities for action: the Prime Directive. Science News recently posted an article that immediately reminded me of my moral lessons from Star Trek:

How to keep humans from ruining the search for life on Mars

Yes and the beliefs that Star Trek espouses are also at times directly counter to those of your friendly neighborhood church. However, if we abstract the church-goer a tad and understand him or her as a religion-goer, then we may have some room to say that the moral values don't have to be similar to recognize the underlying need and motivation for the contemplation of moral values is one and the same.

 

[sealchan]

Where I may quickly go with all of this is that Star Trek and the Bible as moral epics had quite different sources and goals. But I think that where the modern churches fail to capture the experience of the modern, enlightened individual, Star Trek can succeed. Or to put it another way, Star Trek boldly goes where religion should have but has failed to tread.

 

[sealchan]

I have always enjoyed all things star trek, even voyager lol. Remember way back in star trek the motion picture when Spock renounced all emotion to embrace pure logic only to later discover that who he was was so much more than what he had become (and cried)? I think Spock's transformation parallels religion in that many people perceive religion to be an equation to be solved rather than a shared expression of their spiritual enlightenment. Spock came to the enlightened realization that the "sin" of emotion never really was and cried for his brother(s) who were unable to realize this.

Matthew 23:13-15 New International Version (NIV)
13 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.

Nice! Can't wait to review this scripture in Matthew. I'm currently studying Matthew 6.

 

[sealchan]

There may be none. Or they may be in entirely different situations.

Fiction may be taken as a simple time-passer, or it may provide symbolic content for one to project meaning into.

Church service has the very same possibilities, as well as many others of its own. It depends a lot on the person and, to a lesser extent (ideally a lot lesser) on the church.

For perhaps the vast majority of believers a literal understanding of their faith's scriptures is seen as necessary. However, this aspect of faith is becoming less and less tenable. What I call "the reality of what has actually happened in God's creation" (which takes for granted that we understand God as a creator) indicates the issue...does God want us to believe in an inspired but literally false narrative, or can be accept that humans wrote the literary masterpieces that are the world's sacred scripture and that understanding those works does in fact provide spiritual sustenance such as we need?

Given the starvation that many faiths offer the modern eye, ear and mind, might we not wonder why the movie theaters and TV producers are cranking out so much mythical and epic content? And making money hand over fist for doing so?

 

[stvdv]

What are the similarities and differences between someone who faithfully attends church services and someone who religiously watches new Star Trek episodes?

Nice finding "someone who religiously watches new Star Trek episodes"
Seems God found a way to get atheists a bit religious

Church is helping people to get aloof of worldly attachments using "God concept". Watching TV is not about getting rid of worldly attachment. Can be to escape the world.
Personally for me Church is for "connecting" with the Divine. Of course can be done everywhere, but I enjoy going to a church. Others enjoy going to the cinema.
Even when I watch movies I ask God "show me some good lessons please", but sometimes I just watch. In Church I also sometimes just watch, other times more aware

So lessons can be learned everywhere in every situation. When energy is high even drugs won't have effect on me. When energy is not high it is better to keep company as pure as possible. Work on attachments and desires and habits keeping you away from your goal in life. So Church is good when attachments are high. Star Trek is good when close to enlightenment.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some differences in the similarities....
- The Prime Directive beats the 10 Commandments.
- Spock's resurrection used loopy pseudo-science, but the Bible offered even less.
- The Bible sounds better in the original Klingon than in English.

 

[sealchan]

Some differences in the similarities....
- The Prime Directive beats the 10 Commandments.
- Spock's resurrection used loopy pseudo-science, but the Bible offered even less.
- The Bible sounds better in the original Klingon than in English.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one - Spock
Because the needs of the one... outweigh the needs of the many. - Kirk

Now this is classic spiritual stuff right here! Where the rational fits into a higher systemic reality in which both propositions are true in their respective contexts. This is how the spiritual epics should be read as well.

 

[LuisDantas]

For perhaps the vast majority of believers a literal understanding of their faith's scriptures is seen as necessary. However, this aspect of faith is becoming less and less tenable. What I call "the reality of what has actually happened in God's creation" (which takes for granted that we understand God as a creator) indicates the issue...does God want us to believe in an inspired but literally false narrative, or can be accept that humans wrote the literary masterpieces that are the world's sacred scripture and that understanding those works does in fact provide spiritual sustenance such as we need?

Given the starvation that many faiths offer the modern eye, ear and mind, might we not wonder why the movie theaters and TV producers are cranking out so much mythical and epic content? And making money hand over fist for doing so?

Myself, I still feel surprised and a bit shocked that there are people who propose a literal reading of scripture.

One reason why is what you mention: it would require the premise that we humans are consistently capable of understanding the mind of a literal divine creator of existence itself.

That is not something that I see as a good bet.