Did the animals talk?

[YoursTrue]

If some of these stories are not literally true, what reason have we to believe that others are literally true, and how can we know which ones are true and which are symbolic of something the Bible writers were trying to get across?

For example, what reason do we have to believe that the Adam and Eve story is literally true?
What reason do we have to believe that the resurrection story is literally true?

One reason is that many people ponder over the question, why do we die? To the best of my knowledge, I haven't heard that animals wonder or worry about what happens when they die or why they die.

 

[Trailblazer]

It was written many years ago, and culled and put together centuries ago as well. It offers a hope that no other source can.

Of course, Christians would say that the Bible offers a hope no other source can, but a Muslim might say that the Qur'an offers a hope no other source can, and as a Baha'i, the Writings of Baha'u'llah offer me a hope that no other source can.

Still, the Bible is a source of hope for me as a Baha'i when I can understand it.

 

[Trailblazer]

One reason is that many people ponder over the question, why do we die? To the best of my knowledge, I haven't heard that animals wonder or worry about what happens when they die or why they die.

The obvious reason why we die is because we have physical bodies that were designed to live a given life span on earth. The question is answered by science. Religion is not necessary to answer that question, religion is necessary to answer the question of what happens after we die physically.

 

[Dawnofhope]

The Torah says:
Numbers 22:28
And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me three times? And Balaam said unto the donkey, Because thou hast mocked me: if there were a sword in mine hand, I would have slain thee now. And the donkey said unto Balaam, Am I not thy donkey, upon which thou hast ridden from thy youth unto this day? Was I ever in the habit of doing this to you? And he said, No.

God opened the mouth of a donkey and then she spoke? Does it mean, that animals did once talk and God closed their mouths? Does this confirm a part of the "Lesser Genesis" where it is written :
On that day all the wild animals, the cattle, the birds and everything that walks and moves fell silent;
for they had all spoken with one lip and one tongue.

And does it also confirm that the serpent in the garden of Eden was really a talking serpent?

Talking animals, isn't that incredible?

That is correct. Donkeys and serpents really do speak like humans. Moses really did part the Red Sea. The world was created in six days six thousand years ago. Adam and Eve’s son Cain managed to find a wife in the land of Nod despite his parents being the first humans ever. Not long after God decided to destroy most living beings with a world wide flood because the people He created had become so wicked. All the poor animals who were innocent were annihilated. So God preserved each species by gathering together and storing pairs of all the animals from all round the world, who miraculously were able to gather together after their long journeys and fit onto Noah’s ark. Unfortunately such mayhem and destruction didn’t deter the inhabitants of a town called Sodom and Gomorrah behaving really badly again but God soon put an end to them. However one day there will be world peace and all the animals will become vegetarians and hang out with each other peacefully (Isaiah 11:6-8).

An alternative explanation is the Bible uses metaphor, allegory and symbolism to teach moral stories and not everything you read is literally true. I prefer that explanation but if others want to read the Bible stories as being literal history that fine too.

 

[dybmh]

and all the animals will become vegetarians

You were doing so great until the whole vegetarian thing...

 

[james bond]

If a dog started talking to me in human language, I'd get really, really scared. I'd probably drop on my knees praying for help. Now the situation is that the Bible is the word of God, and men have been analyzing it and trying to understand it for centuries. It was written many years ago, and culled and put together centuries ago as well. It offers a hope that no other source can.

I suppose a parrot can talk, but it can only be trained to mimick what you teach it or what it hears. It can't reason exactly. I suppose if it's your dog, then it could be a supernatural being that is bad like what happened with the serpent. However, we haven't, at least I haven't, of some animal making contact with a human. Maybe that was old school stuff. I dunno. Have you heard any reports of this happening?

 

[Dawnofhope]

You were doing so great until the whole vegetarian thing...

It was that straw eating lion. Gets me every time.

 

[dybmh]

It was that straw eating lion. Gets me every time.

It doesn't say "only" eating straw... The idea of animals becoming vegetarian is not literal.

So that one example doesn't belong among all the other examples you brought.

 

[Deeje]

An alternative explanation is the Bible uses metaphor, allegory and symbolism to teach moral stories and not everything you read is literally true.

Or God doesn't lie, and those things took place in a way that unbelievers are blind to? Did you know that the devil has the capacity to make people spiritually blind? ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4) But he can only accomplish it with "unbelievers", many of which seem to haunt these boards....

I prefer that explanation but if others want to read the Bible stories as being literal history that fine too.

The first two words are a problem with many people. When something "seems" impossible, they naturally assume that God can't do the impossible.....I believe he can do whatever he wishes with the power he possesses.

What makes you think he can't? Is your God lacking in the sort of power that can create the Universe? Mine isn't. In fact he has no limitations at all.

BTW, did you know that during the war, when meat was in short supply, I was told that they fed the lions straw to supplement their diet? I was also told that the first thing predatory animals eat when they kill for food is the stomach and intestines, because they are full of vegetation. Their prey are usually vegetarians.

My dog eats grass and I give her vegetables with a little raw meat...she loves it.

I don't believe that there were any predatory animals in the beginning. The only meat eaters would have been the carrion creatures that cleaned up dead animals and other creatures.
We are not living in the world that God created....we are living in the mess that man created.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The Torah says:
Numbers 22:28
And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me three times? And Balaam said unto the donkey, Because thou hast mocked me: if there were a sword in mine hand, I would have slain thee now. And the donkey said unto Balaam, Am I not thy donkey, upon which thou hast ridden from thy youth unto this day? Was I ever in the habit of doing this to you? And he said, No.

God opened the mouth of a donkey and then she spoke? Does it mean, that animals did once talk and God closed their mouths? Does this confirm a part of the "Lesser Genesis" where it is written :
On that day all the wild animals, the cattle, the birds and everything that walks and moves fell silent;
for they had all spoken with one lip and one tongue.

And does it also confirm that the serpent in the garden of Eden was really a talking serpent?

Talking animals, isn't that incredible?

Indeed, it's not credible in the least.

 

[stvdv]

And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said unto Balaam

Hypothetical: there is some truth to be found:
So, the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey is claimed. Normally a donkey is perfectly capable to open her own mouth. So this part might be symbolism. It could have been 'Donkey opened mouth and God spoke through her to Balaam'. But it's not.

Balaam said unto the donkey, Because thou hast mocked me

Here Balaam claims donkey mocked him.
Can donkeys mock humans?
1)If not, did Balaam go crazy? If so, should we take the part' God opened mouth' serious?
2)If yes, how did donkey mock?

Did donkey mock verbal? Or draw a Balaam cartoon or even did donkey do

The puzzle to solve is 'donkey:To speak or not to speak'. So for simplicity I assume mocking was also verbal.
1)If verbal, was it also God? Or could Balaam hear donkey always? If it was God, it should be written in Bible (mothers always record first words). If it is not in Bible then it was not God. So, then it was Balaam able to hear voice donkey all along. But then it makes no sense to say 'God opened mouth of donkey' to start with

I tried open mouth of my cat. Boy oh boy, she did not like that. She told me "don't do that ever again or I bite you; I can do it myself" (okay last part I made up)

And the donkey said unto Balaam, Am I not thy donkey, upon which thou hast ridden from thy youth unto this day? Was I ever in the habit of doing this to you? And he said, No.

Donkey seems quite chatty, or was it the chatty mind of Balaam?

Donkey debated well, because Balaam admitted straight away "No". No counter argument at all. Normally on RF people hate to admit when wrong, and keep mouth shut, hoping others forget quick. Not Balaam. He admits. So outsmarted by donkey.

That must be proof enough it's all true. Normal people don't admit. But admit losing debate from donkey is huge. Then it must be true, or he lost it completely

Anyway. The final 'No' is a bit strange. Balaam accuses donkey for mocking him. Donkey said "was I ever in habit doing this". Balaam said "No".

So that means it was only in his mind (mocking part).

But then "God opening mouth donkey" might as well been only in his mind.

Maybe I should have read more context, but I was not in the mood.

I could believe animals can "talk" if God exist and is omnipotent. But this story does not seem coherent.

 

[whirlingmerc]

There are lots of stories of talking animals, even donkeys...

I see all of them as just that...stories.

In the normal course of events, no.

but

God made the mouth to speak and if he could do it for man he can do it for other for such times as it pleases him.

A miracle is when God mirculously acts and nothing is too difficult for Him.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It doesn't say "only" eating straw... The idea of animals becoming vegetarian is not literal.

So that one example doesn't belong among all the other examples you brought.

You are quite correct. Do you as a Torah observing Jew believe all the other events happened literally as recorded in Genesis?

 

[YoursTrue]

Of course, Christians would say that the Bible offers a hope no other source can, but a Muslim might say that the Qur'an offers a hope no other source can, and as a Baha'i, the Writings of Baha'u'llah offer me a hope that no other source can.

Still, the Bible is a source of hope for me as a Baha'i when I can understand it.

I'm happy to hear that it is a source of hope when you can understand it. (And I might add that not everything is easy to understand. Every Christian must have faith and keep strengthening it.)
Are you familiar with the following account in the book of Acts, chapter 8:30,31 about the Ethiopian court official who went to Jerusalem to worship? Philip the evangelizer was motivated by God's spirit to approach the official.
"So Philip ran up and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked. “How can I,” he said, “unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him."

 

[dybmh]

You are quite correct. Do you as a Torah observing Jew believe all the other events happened literally as recorded in Genesis?

FWIW, I'm not exactly a Torah Observing Jew yet. I'm somewhat observant. The commandments I observe, I try to do correctly.

That said: I think it's possible but not probable that the events in Genesis occurred literally as described.

 

[YoursTrue]

I suppose a parrot can talk, but it can only be trained to mimick what you teach it or what it hears. It can't reason exactly. I suppose if it's your dog, then it could be a supernatural being that is bad like what happened with the serpent. However, we haven't, at least I haven't, of some animal making contact with a human. Maybe that was old school stuff. I dunno. Have you heard any reports of this happening?

However it happened in the Bible, I believe that God used the situation to explain things to Balaam. And then have the event recorded for all to read. Amidst the historical account, there are miraculous and astounding accounts recorded also because the Bible deals with God's relationship with those who want to know Him. Since God is God and I am not, I accept what the Bible says, and understand it as best as I can. Not everything is easy to understand in the Bible, therefore help is needed.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Or God doesn't lie, and those things took place in a way that unbelievers are blind to? Did you know that the devil has the capacity to make people spiritually blind? ( 2 Corinthians 4:3-4) But he can only accomplish it with "unbelievers", many of which seem to haunt these boards....



The first two words are a problem with many people. When something "seems" impossible, they naturally assume that God can't do the impossible.....I believe he can do whatever he wishes with the power he possesses.

What makes you think he can't? Is your God lacking in the sort of power that can create the Universe? Mine isn't. In fact he has no limitations at all.

BTW, did you know that during the war, when meat was in short supply, I was told that they fed the lions straw to supplement their diet? I was also told that the first thing predatory animals eat when they kill for food is the stomach and intestines, because they are full of vegetation. Their prey are usually vegetarians.

My dog eats grass and I give her vegetables with a little raw meat...she loves it.

I don't believe that there were any predatory animals in the beginning. The only meat eaters would have been the carrion creatures that cleaned up dead animals and other creatures.
We are not living in the world that God created....we are living in the mess that man created.

If the standard of faith is unquestioningly accepting that which is highly implausible at best and disproved by science then your faith is greater than mine. The God I have faith in requires I use wisdom and reason when considering that which He has Revealed through His Prophets.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is correct. Donkeys and serpents really do speak like humans. Moses really did part the Red Sea. The world was created in six days six thousand years ago. Adam and Eve’s son Cain managed to find a wife in the land of Nod despite his parents being the first humans ever. Not long after God decided to destroy most living beings with a world wide flood because the people He created had become so wicked. All the poor animals who were innocent were annihilated. So God preserved each species by gathering together and storing pairs of all the animals from all round the world, who miraculously were able to gather together after their long journeys and fit onto Noah’s ark. Unfortunately such mayhem and destruction didn’t deter the inhabitants of a town called Sodom and Gomorrah behaving really badly again but God soon put an end to them. However one day there will be world peace and all the animals will become vegetarians and hang out with each other peacefully (Isaiah 11:6-8).

An alternative explanation is the Bible uses metaphor, allegory and symbolism to teach moral stories and not everything you read is literally true. I prefer that explanation but if others want to read the Bible stories as being literal history that fine too.

Donkeys and serpents usually do not speak like humans. Actually, they can't speak like humans, as if they were using human reasoning.
Exodus 14:21 shows that God parted the Red Sea, not Moses. Just to help along with your comments there.
"Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and all that night the LORD drove the sea back with a strong east wind and turned it into dry land. The waters were divided,"

 

[Dawnofhope]

FWIW, I'm not exactly a Torah Observing Jew yet. I'm somewhat observant. The commandments I observe, I try to do correctly.

That’s good to know.

That said: I think it's possible but not probable that the events in Genesis occurred literally as described.

Is there anything written in the Tanakh you would consider impossible to accept literally?

 

[YoursTrue]

If the standard of faith is unquestioningly accepting that which is highly implausible at best and disproved by science then your faith is greater than mine. The God I have faith in requires I use wisdom and reason when considering that which He has Revealed through His Prophets.

I don't know too much about the Bahai religion. Therefore I would like to ask you which God is it that you have faith in, as you say above?