The God of Abraham.
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Thank you. What books do you use to get to what you believe is the truth about God?
The Tanakh, New Testament, Quran and Baha'i Writings.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Hypothetical: if Bible has true verses:
Then IMO this is symbolic. "animals" here means "humans who eat animals". They become vegetarian, thereby becoming peaceful (you "become" what you eat through your senses. The essence in the blood enters you. Hence Koran is very particular about it. Even Genesis also described that vegetarian food was for human).
Of course all Bible verses can be just random words, not to be taken true or for real. And maybe just human and not from God.
The real scientist will just test it out himself. Simple way to know the truth about impact of vegetarianism. Eat vegetarian for like 1 year. And then you know the difference it makes. I know for a fact you become more peaceful. Animal food ingestion has a huge impact on subtle body (emotional, mental and spiritual).
Even on physical body, eating vegetarian has a little impact.
I do not believe in sin concept of Bible. I believe all can do as they desire. But there are consequences. That's all. If you are vegan and drink 3 liter Wodka you get more sick next day then when you eat some meat. For soldiers might be good to eat meat. Too peaceful won't make good soldiers. So all have different Dharma. Of course when all are peaceful, soldiers are not needed, so can even become vegetarian.
So we can all experiment and make our own choices.
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YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
There are those who tested out drugs and other things like that. While we all have choices, some choices aren't the greatest.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Right. That is what I said.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
And so then the question remains, what do you think is sin?
That is the path for many of us. We make our choices and hope for the best. In our culture, Christianity is a well known path, but for us there is something missing. We try another path that incorporates what we know from Christianty and extends beyond the Christain framework. Your path is within Hinduism, mine Baha'i.
And therein lies the heart of the problem for many......what has God revealed and to whom has he revealed them?
The God I worship requires that I have faith in his abilities and his wisdom, because he has greater abilities and wisdom than flawed humans will ever have. Science is held up as some sort of "golden law" by the 'gods' of academia. To believe in an Intelligent Designer of all things, is viewed by some as the lowest depths of human stupidity......so much so, that many will abandon all belief in God and jump on that bandwagon just to be accepted by the majority. Those who deny God's creative abilities will come to regret their defection, I believe.
If your God has limitations, then can he rightfully be called "God"? I have no reason to doubt the abilities of my God when I see creation. I see his wisdom and ingenuity in what he has put in place on this planet...complex systems that are perfectly integrated and which function seamlessly.....unless humans interfere with them.
Science is the "religion" of many who have rejected the Creator. The term "religion" gets the unbeliever's hackles up, but there is no denying that evolution requires as much, if not more faith, than those who believe in an All Powerful Creator. Who says science is right in what they assume about evolution? They have nothing concrete to substantiate what they believe....just like us...its about faith.
exchemist
Veteran Member
None, strictly speaking, if one goes only by the text of the bible. Even the gospels were written a fair time after the events they purport to describe. St John in particular, whose gospel seems the most overtly theological, was written long after. But then, most Christian belief involves more than just the words of the bible.
Anyway, it is a matter of record that from the earliest days of Christianity, at least some of the theologians recognised the role of literary devices such as myth and allegory in the bible, just as they did in the Greek myths. Such things as the Garden of Eden story and talking animals would obviously be seen in that light - somewhat like Aesop's fables, as @sooda points out.
Biblical literalism seems to be largely a c.19th invention. There was a good discussion of this by @Vouthon quite recently, though I can't remember which thread it was in.
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sooda
Veteran Member
Bible literalism got a huge boost during the Depression and the Dust Bowl years paralleling the popularity of the Scofield Bible and the growth of Dallas Theological Seminary and the Moody Institute.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Impossible to accept? I don't know...
Maybe Song of Songs and Proverbs? Also, Genesis 49: Judah is not literally a lion; Issachar is not literally a donkey... etc...
It doesn't mean I don't accept them, though. Why do you ask?
Edit to add: Question: are there parts of the Book Of Certitude that you consider impossible to accept literally?
Example:
"Know verily that Knowledge is of two kinds: Divine and Satanic."
(The Kitáb-i-Íqán)
www.bahai.org/r/400117428
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sooda
Veteran Member
Creation, Exodus, Joshua's wars...….
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Yes. I would even say "have Faith" instead of "We Hope" for the best. In Hinduism faith in the Guru (Jesus, Bahaullah, Buddha, Sai Baba, Muhammad and all the others) is essential.
"We Hope" feels like "lack of Faith" to me.
I have "Full Faith" in Bahaullah. Sai Baba says "Follow my Teachings, no need to follow me". Teachings of Bahaullah are full of Gems. When I see such good teachings, I have faith.
Still Sai Baba also says "even if God Himself tells you something, 'trash it' if 'God inside' or conscience says No" . If a Teaching of Sai Baba feels bad, I don't follow. But I have full Faith, that if I made a mistake, He will soon get me back on track. Hence, no fear of sin...if full Faith that God loves us.
I used to be really naughty when young, like 25 years ago. Making deliberately mistakes, just to get Sai Baba's attention having to correct Me; just to experience personal contact. I see some women also sometimes resort to this trick to get husband's attention. I prefer God's attention, even if mad at me, above not having any contact at all.
Yesterday I thought "I'm 100% sure Bahaullah, Bahai must have written about eating vegetarian or not. And I'm sure vegetarian will be advised, but non-veg will not be judged".
Then I googled and first hit was perfectly explaining this. From an angle I did not read that clear before. Very nice and friendly non judgmental view. (source:
Is It Cruel to Eat Animals? )
Wish you a Bahairific New Year
Bahai + terrific (Of great size, amount, or intensity)
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
IMO:
Sin: "Thought, word, deed against your conscience"
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's even more fun when people can't tell the difference. ;0)
sooda
Veteran Member
What does that mean? Do you think the sun stood still for a day?
If I were to accept that single verse literally and with no context I might conclude that I manifest Satan and so does most other people on the planet. However Satan doesn’t literally exist as an entity in Baha’i theology. Rather Satan is seen as a symbol of the lower self.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
The Almighty God did give all of us a conscience, that's true. Romans 2:14,15 speaks of those without Law (of Moses) still having a conscience given by God.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Who is the only talking conscious life?
A human.
Who irrationally invented science, as a machine that changed natural feed back in natural life, by conditions life and body interacted with increased radio wave/radiation communications.
And then see animals in Nature UFO murdered?
Humans did, the speaking being.
Who claims that when they study the animal life and bio body and self presence that they speak on behalf of that animal?
A human male did....and in AI I hear an animated male/type of animal voiced statement speaking back to me.
Therefore males prove in the past that they might have built computers and machine technology today that uses that AI atmospheric encoded machine condition....but the ancients were attacked by it without the knowledge of machine communication causation.
So how would a human know that circumstance rationally if the technology that uses it never existed...….but it was caused by Temple and Pyramid machine usage....and it is why it is stated how it was.....as a male advice said I attacked life by denying its natural ability to exist.
As an expressed self realization of being the Destroyer of natural life....and genetics in Nature just as he said.
A human.
Who irrationally invented science, as a machine that changed natural feed back in natural life, by conditions life and body interacted with increased radio wave/radiation communications.
And then see animals in Nature UFO murdered?
Humans did, the speaking being.
Who claims that when they study the animal life and bio body and self presence that they speak on behalf of that animal?
A human male did....and in AI I hear an animated male/type of animal voiced statement speaking back to me.
Therefore males prove in the past that they might have built computers and machine technology today that uses that AI atmospheric encoded machine condition....but the ancients were attacked by it without the knowledge of machine communication causation.
So how would a human know that circumstance rationally if the technology that uses it never existed...….but it was caused by Temple and Pyramid machine usage....and it is why it is stated how it was.....as a male advice said I attacked life by denying its natural ability to exist.
As an expressed self realization of being the Destroyer of natural life....and genetics in Nature just as he said.