1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,307
    Ratings:
    +1,174
    Religion:
    Christian
    There are millions upon millions that agree with me,
     
  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    12,334
    Ratings:
    +5,873
    Religion:
    None
    Can you see any possible flaw in that as an argument?
     
  3. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,307
    Ratings:
    +1,174
    Religion:
    Christian
    It isn´t an argument, it is a statement of fact regarding the number of believers, like me.
     
  4. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    12,334
    Ratings:
    +5,873
    Religion:
    None
    So, you just said it with no more intent than if you'd
    offered some other fact, such as that there is ice
    in Antarctica.

    Maybe it unfamiliarity with argumentum ad populum
    as worthless.*

    Maybe this is a vocab issue.

    Argument-
    1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views,

    2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others
    *As Mark Twain said about the witnesses to the
    marvellous gold books of Joseph Smith;

    "I could not be more convinced if ever single member
    of the Whitner and Smith families had signed!"

    ....... and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

    Christian Whitmer

    Jacob Whitmer

    Peter Whitmer, Jun.

    John Whitmer

    Hiram Page

    Joseph Smith, Sen.

    Hyrum Smith

    Samuel H. Smith
     
  5. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,307
    Ratings:
    +1,174
    Religion:
    Christian
     
  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    15,550
    Ratings:
    +1,673
    That does not make a myth into the reality. Please remain in the Myth-Land, if that is one's choice. Right, please?

    Regards
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,307
    Ratings:
    +1,174
    Religion:
    Christian
    Reality isn´t a myth.
     
  8. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    12,334
    Ratings:
    +5,873
    Religion:
    None
    And vice versa. Time to figure that out.
     
  9. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    6,099
    Ratings:
    +2,266
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I believe that Acts is generally considered to have been written 80 to 90 AD and is anonymous. I don't see how the writer (s) could have seen the resurrection.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Jos

    Jos Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2019
    Messages:
    706
    Ratings:
    +106
    Religion:
    Agnostic Theist
    At the end of the day, this debate won't be resolved any time soon since no one was there to see what happened and plus, each side has their own set of facts, on which they disagree with the other side... so we don't even have the proper facts to determine what happened anyway.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    12,334
    Ratings:
    +5,873
    Religion:
    None
    Same with J Smith and his gold books.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,915
    Ratings:
    +1,626
    People mentioned in Acts I find were with the living Jesus and the resurrected Jesus.
    Since Scripture is God inspired then God is given the credit as being the behind-the-scenes Author - 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
    I wonder how your arrived that Luke was anonymous ____________
    Doesn't the Muratorian Fragment attribute writership to Luke _________
    Doesn't Irenaeus of Lyons cite Luke as writer of Acts _________
    Doesn't Clemenat of Alexandria cite Luke as writer of Acts_______
    Doesn't Tertullian of Carthage cite Luke as writer of Acts ________
     
  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,915
    Ratings:
    +1,626
    Is it the facts that disagree or people disagreeing ________
    I find what is recorded in Scripture is as per 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says coming from God.
    The ' debate ' will be resolved in 'soon coming time' because we are in the last days of badness on Earth.
    People will hear the words saying, "Peace and Security..." but those words will prove to be just the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus will be the one who will establish true Peace on Earth.
    - 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
     
  14. Jos

    Jos Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2019
    Messages:
    706
    Ratings:
    +106
    Religion:
    Agnostic Theist
    Both believers and skeptics disagree on what can be constituted as factual with respect to the life of Jesus and the time period in which He lived, so yeah I guess it's people disagreeing but also the facts concerning the event seem to be unverifiable.
     
  15. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    6,099
    Ratings:
    +2,266
    Religion:
    Atheist
    The claim that anything in the bible is "god inspired" is just an unfounded assertion.

    I say that it is anonymous because it is unsigned and nobody named "Luke" claims to have written such a paper. But no matter, even if he wrote it, he was not an eyewitness to the resurrection.
     
  16. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,915
    Ratings:
    +1,626
    Sound to me as if you are implying improvable, but to me Not impossible.
    ALL the Bible's theme about the good news of God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 paints a complete word picture for us.
    Mankind has proven beyond doubt that man can't successfully govern himself.
    That is exactly the challenge or the issue of sovereignty that began in Eden.
    By breaking God's Law then Adam set up People Rule as being superior to God Rule.
    The passing of time has allowed all in heaven and earth to see that men's kingdoms or governments can't bring lasting Peace on Earth.
    Man will give it one last try by saying, " Peace and Security..." but it will prove it to only be a saying.
    - 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,915
    Ratings:
    +1,626
    What you call an unfounded assertion I find it to be founded at 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
    No one is saying Luke was an eyewitness, but the people whom he wrote about were real people.
    Both Luke's gospel account and Acts are addressed to the same person : Theophilus.- Luke 1:2-3; Acts 1:1
    Not being an eyewitness does Not mean it did Not happen.
    What is happening today is the account found in the 21st chapter of Luke.
    Even the detail adjective word ' great ' found at Luke 21:11 is for our time frame.
     
  18. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    15,550
    Ratings:
    +1,673
    "The claim that anything in the bible is "god inspired" is just an unfounded assertion."

    It will be as good to say that none of the NT-Bible is "god inspired".

    Regards
     
  19. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    15,550
    Ratings:
    +1,673
    "I say that it is anonymous"

    Not only you say that the four Gospels were anonymous documents but the Catholic-Encylopedia also affirms that these were anonymous documents. Right, please?
    The names of the Gospels do not suggest that the the accounts written were written by these disciples, their names were just assigned to give them some credulity. Right, please?
    None, emphasis none, of the Gospel writers was the eye-witness of Jesus Crucifixion. Right, please?

    Regards

    ______________
    "The first four historical books of the New Testament are supplied with titles ( Euaggelion kata Matthaion, Euaggelion kata Markon , etc.), which, however ancient, do not go back to the respective authors of those sacred writings. "
    Gospel and Gospels - Encyclopedia Volume - Catholic Encyclopedia - Catholic Online
     
    #659 paarsurrey, May 1, 2019
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  20. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    1,178
    Ratings:
    +164
    Religion:
    Christian
    Sixty-two scholars date the Book of Acts as being written, on average, 67 AD, well within the lifetimes of Paul and the many of the Apostles. Conservative scholars overwhelmingly cite Luke as the author.

    A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books
     
Loading...