1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    982
    Ratings:
    +397
    Religion:
    Xian
    It is not known when Acts was written, the first attestation we have of Acts is about 270 C.E.
     
  2. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    1,156
    Ratings:
    +164
    Religion:
    Christian
  3. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    6,075
    Ratings:
    +2,259
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Few people lived well into their 60's in those days. Note also that a date of writing of 67 is an average, not a firm date. Nonetheless, I do not believe the author of Acts was a witness, unless he was at most a baby or small child.
     
  4. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    6,075
    Ratings:
    +2,259
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Yes, they are anonymous
     
  5. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    6,075
    Ratings:
    +2,259
    Religion:
    Atheist
    I know of no books at all that can be demonstrated to be god inspired, nor have I seen any sound evidence that there is a god to inspire anything.
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    24,881
    Ratings:
    +13,760
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Worse yet it even fails even on that level since no matter what one's religious beliefs are there are far more that disagree than agree with anyone.
     
  7. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    12,297
    Ratings:
    +5,850
    Religion:
    None
    Its ok, shmog agreed with me, his response was to just
    repost what I said.
     
  8. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    12,297
    Ratings:
    +5,850
    Religion:
    None
    Are you aware you just reposted my words?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,294
    Ratings:
    +1,174
    Religion:
    Christian
    Yep, so profound, a replay was required.
     
  10. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    1,156
    Ratings:
    +164
    Religion:
    Christian
    Well, the Apostle John lived to a ripe old age and I'm sure many others did also.

    Also, the average incorporated other scholars who dated it even earlier than 67 AD.

    As for the author of the Book of Acts, the following is clear:

    "In my former book, Theophilus..." Acts 1:11

    His former book was the Gospel of Luke. So the author was Luke.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    12,297
    Ratings:
    +5,850
    Religion:
    None
    You would be better off with silence than insincerity.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    24,881
    Ratings:
    +13,760
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Acts and Luke are thought to be by the same author. Luke unfortunately is anonymous too so that does not help you much. Also the Gospel of Luke openly states at the start that it is not based upon eyewitness testimony. It is based upon the local legend.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    1,156
    Ratings:
    +164
    Religion:
    Christian
    There's evidence that Luke is the author of his Gospel, and Acts. For the Gospel of Luke:

    "External evidence for Lucan authorship of both books is strong. Writing to Trypho the Jew concerning Luke 22:44 Justin Martyr (A.D. 103-165) affirms the authority of the third Gospel as well as its author being a follower of the apostles: “For in the memoirs which I say were drawn up by His apostles and those who followed them, [it is recorded] that…”(24). The 2nd century writer Irenaeus reports an early tradition stating that “Luke also, the companion of Paul, recorded in a book the Gospel preached by him.”(25) In the same work Irenaeus, concerning Luke documenting his travels with Paul in Acts, thus writing Acts, says: “But that this Luke was inseparable from Paul, and his fellow-labourer in the Gospel, he himself clearly evinces, not as a matter of boasting, but as bound to do so by the truth itself… As Luke was present at all these occurrences, he carefully noted them down in writing…”(26) In the earliest orthodox list of books dated to around A.D. 190 known as the “Muratorian Canon” we read: “The third book of the gospel is according to Luke. This Luke was a physician who Paul had taken after the ascension of Christ to be a legal expert. Yet he had not seen the Lord in the flesh. So, as far as he could, he begins his story with the birth of John.”(27). The Anti-Marcionite Prologue to Luke (A.D. 160-180) identifies Luke as the author when it says: “Luke, a Syrian of Antioch, doctor by profession… Luke, under impulse of the Holy Spirit, wrote his gospel in the region of Achaia.”(28) In his work against the heretic Marcion Tertullian (A.D. 160-220) attests to Lucan authorship: “… the evangelical Testament has apostles for its authors, to whom was assigned by the Lord Himself this office of publishing the gospel... therefore, John and Matthew first instil faith into us; while of apostolic men, Luke and Mark renew it afterwards… Now, of the authors whom we possess, Marcion seems to have singled out Luke for his mutilating process.”(29). P75 (A.D. 174-225) the oldest manuscript of the third Gospel designates Luke as the author as well. All early Lucan manuscripts we possess have the title. In his commentary on Matthew Origen (A.D. 185-254) also affirms that Luke wrote both the third Gospel and Acts when he says “And the third by Luke, the Gospel commended by Paul, and composed for Gentile converts… Luke, the author of the Gospel and the Acts, wrote it.”(30) Who Wrote the Gospels? Internal and External Arguments for Traditional Authorship
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    24,881
    Ratings:
    +13,760
    Religion:
    Atheist
    How is that evidence? He wrote that at the very least 50 years after Luke-Acts were written and probably longer. Contemporary claims or people that at least knew him would be a bit more convincing.
     
  15. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    1,156
    Ratings:
    +164
    Religion:
    Christian
    Here's when numerous scholars date the writing of Luke and Acts - well within the lifetime of Luke. The fact that he wrote it some years after the events noted doesn't matter. I can still recall vividly events from the Vietnam war and that's 50 years ago.

    Dating the New Testament, based on the opinions of several hundred New Testament scholars

    iPage
     
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    24,881
    Ratings:
    +13,760
    Religion:
    Atheist
    You can't rely on bogus Christian scholars that want to distort the facts to match their myth. And your link does not work anyway. Most put the date after 70 AD, those that do so before then only do so in an attempt to make a vague prophecy be "fulfilled". That is not a valid reason to put an early date on the book.
     
  17. Spartan

    Spartan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2019
    Messages:
    1,156
    Ratings:
    +164
    Religion:
    Christian
    You don't even know those scholars and you say they're bogus and want to distort the facts.

    Recommend you back up your claim.
     
  18. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,223
    Ratings:
    +915
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe they reported it that way because that is the way it appeared to them. However they did report correctly what happened and one wonders how they knew.
     
  19. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,223
    Ratings:
    +915
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe that is not so with me.
     
  20. Muffled

    Muffled Jesus in me

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    15,223
    Ratings:
    +915
    Religion:
    Christian
    I believe the Biblical evidence does not support that concept.
     
Loading...