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Featured Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by whirlingmerc, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    It appears all the apostle were willing to hold that belief till death

    Watergate had only a matter of 5 weeks or so before the whole lot of em were singing like canaries or incriminated various ways
     
  2. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    The thing is God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

    Acts 2:24; Acts 3:15; Acts 4:10; Acts 5:30; Acts 13:30

    Acts 10:39-43 New International Version (NIV)
    “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

    upload_2019-4-21_23-14-34.jpeg
     
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  3. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

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    How do you know that is true?
     
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  4. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?
    The answer depends entirely on ones indoctrination, or lack thereof.
     
    #4 lukethethird, Apr 21, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2019
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  5. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    It appears it was a vision similar to the one the disciples had on Mount Tabor.

    And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only. And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead." (Matthew 17:1–9, KJV)

    Thou didst ask as to the transfiguration of Jesus, with Moses and Elias and the Heavenly Father on Mount Tabor, as referred to in the Bible. This occurrence was perceived by the disciples with their inner eye, wherefore it was a secret hidden away, and was a spiritual discovery of theirs. Otherwise, if the intent be that they witnessed physical forms, that is, witnessed that transfiguration with their outward eyes, then there were many others at hand on that plain and mountain, and why did they fail to behold it? And why did the Lord charge them that they should tell no man? It is clear that this was a spiritual vision and a scene of the Kingdom. Wherefore did the Messiah bid them to keep this hidden, ‘till the Son of Man were risen from the dead,’ 1 —that is, until the Cause of God should be exalted, and the Word of God prevail, and the reality of Christ rise up.(Baha’i Writings)

    I believe the resurrection was a spiritual vision also.
     
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  6. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    How do you know it isn´t ? We have significant evidence that it is true. Do you have evidence it isn¨t true ?
     
  7. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    There's no significant evidence.

    Besides dead people don't come back to life. Ever.
     
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  8. Bethsheba Ashe

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    I may have evidence both for and against this proposition.
    Jesus Christ in Greek is: Ιησου Χριστου , which has the Isopsephy value of 719.
    This is significant because every twelve hours the hour hand and seconds hands of an analog clock align exactly 719 times and in John 11:9 it says: Jesus answered, 'Are there not twelve hours of daylight? If ‎anyone walks in the daytime, he will not stumble, because ‎he sees by the light of this world.'

    Have you noticed the New Testament is obsessed with time? More specifically the hours if the day? If Jesus was the personification of the light of day, then you would expect him to die once a year and rise the morning afterwards like they believed the Sun did. If so then he's been "risen" for the past 2,000 years.
     
  9. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

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    I don't have to disprove something that is fantastical. You have to prove it.

    What is your evidence?
     
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  10. nightshadetwine

    nightshadetwine New Member

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    I think there's something to this. Notice Jesus has twelve disciples. In ancient Egyptian religion the sun god would go through the twelve hours of the night in the underworld and the twelve hours of the day in the sky. While the sun god was in the underworld he would go through a baptism, transfiguration, death, and resurrection.

    I think the Gospels and the Egyptian myths are telling the same story.

    The Search for God in Ancient Egypt By Jan Assmann:
    Becoming Divine: An Introduction to Deification in Western Culture By M. David Litwa:
    Conceptions of God in Ancient Egypt: The One and the Many by Erik Hornung:
    The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt by Richard H. Wilkinson:
    Death and the Afterlife in Ancient Egypt By John H. Taylor:
    The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Book of Going Forth by Day edited by Eva Von Dassow:
    Following Osiris by Mark Smith:
     
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  11. Bethsheba Ashe

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    Thank you for posting all of that. Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of, except in an Israelite context. The many apocryphal tales of Jesus may have began as stories about the sunlight and the day, just as the stories of Jacob and Esau are about the Summer and the Winter. Jesus would never have been central to Judaism because sun worship was idolatry, but nevertheless he may have been an important component to the wider cultural beliefs of the Jews at that time.
     
  12. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    I bet it's written down somewhere.
     
  13. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Active Member

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  14. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    ????
    This hardly amounts to evidence much less proof.


    .
     
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  15. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    Yes, we have evidence that it is not true, The New Testament, it is a book of theology/mythology and the source of your beliefs.
     
  16. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    Actually, The Bible is a form of evidence, just not the kind that supports what believers believe.
     
  17. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    To me the answer lies on one's knowledge or education about what the Bible really teaches.
    From the Bible we learn that Jesus did die, and his God resurrected the dead Jesus from the grave.
     
  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    well if THAT Guy failed.....and He is dead

    so are the rest of us

    and Man upon this planet is a complete mystery
    without resolve

    and without hope

    extinction the only fate awaiting
     
  19. Bethsheba Ashe

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    I'm sorry you feel like that at the moment, but God is not dead and we have not killed him, so that is something to be hopeful about, surely?
     
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  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    A yearly death would be taking back Jesus' ransom sacrifice for us.
    This is why Hebrews 9:27-28 informs us 'appointed to die once'.....
    In other words, Jesus sacrifice for us was better than any animal sacrifice could be - Hebrew 9:23-25.

    In the Greek I do Not find the word 'daylight' at John 11:9-10, but just 12 hours of the day. Day as in 1/2 of 24 hours.
     
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