Criticism of Islam.

[firedragon]

Perhaps this is a good time to point out the obvious: that hatred is like a poison that consumes the one who hates.

It not only consumers the person, it also makes you worship something. Your source of knowledge becomes hatred itself.

 

[firedragon]

This is proof that disbelief in God and Mohammad (s) makes you evil.

Well. Maybe then you dont believe in God and the Qur'an.

 

[Nakosis]

Yeah. Many of the west are open minded people. But the west bombed practically most of the world, oppressed a lot of them, stole their wealth, stole them purely for slavery, killed millions of people just within decades, killed more millions 10 within 10 decades, and they will do tomorrow as well.

Not a good yardstick.

Our government unfortunately has. We presume to have a representative government , but IMO, not so much. I certainly don't agree with our governments involvement in other countries. Our Federal government has its own agenda, its own ideas about what is necessary for its survival. The citizenry is supposed to be in charge but we are manipulated by our media/political system.
There is no one else to blame but evolution has bred us to be more like sheep than shepherds.

 

[Link]

Well. Maybe then you dont believe in God and the Qur'an.

In general, people who oppose Mohammad (s) in my experience, they lack political insight and lacks sense of justice.

I'm not saying this is true of all non-Muslims, but in general, they take wicked stances and are politically not just.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Maybe you have no clue about the religion and your source of knowledge must be the TV or some website. I can put it bluntly. And I will tell you directly that in that case, Buddhism is a more terrorist religion judging by the people and what they had done, and Hinduism, Christianity, Atheism, are all terrorist putting your own standard on it.

This kind of thread will bring out a lot of people like you who put their hatred in the place of God and worship hatred. So what happens is with a lack of understanding, knowledge and shallow surfing, they will show themselves.

If your standard and source of knowledge is that, then you should know how many fingers are pointing at yourself.

Peace.

I just see what's going out there. Middle East, France, the US, among others.

It's not like Islam cannot correct the destructive course its on, the crusades with Christianity has the same thing imv. But it learned from its violent past and has gotten more docile since.

If Islam goes the same route. I can see it as a peaceful religion but not right now.

And yea. Your right. Buddhism has had its share of violence but that's a part of what is expected as with any religion.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

It not only consumers the person, it also makes you worship something. Your source of knowledge becomes hatred itself.

Interesting. Though I’d change the term “knowledge” in that sentence to “judgement”, for hatred is the result of someone’s judgement - not of their “knowledge”.

 

[Lain]

This thread is opened for the expose of Islam and Muslims. One could discuss people, the theology, men, women, hate, love, everything and anything they want. Its particularly opened because it is an avenue to discuss openly and avoid discussion of this topic in every single thread.

There are not many Muslims in this forum, but maybe one or two will respond.

Thanks and Peace.

On the thread title: I don't hate Islam personally. If anything my life has been benefitted by the study of those who assisted the Theologians (although heretics in Islam I've been told, Ibn Sina and the other one, Ibn Rushd) and the discovery that washing the inside of my nose feels insanely good.

Questions that come to my mind (books appreciated, I've been going over the Quran and life of the Prophet in some versions given to me by Muslims, and another book concerning the appearances of him and his companions for some reason they gave me that):

- Whether or not it is true that the oldest claims of Islam was that Christians and Jews hid their texts and not that the texts were corrupted?
- For what reason exactly can the prayers not been translated to be said in another language and fulfill the obligation? If that is the case or not.
- Is it true that the reason for things ceases at God in Islam, and He is not considered to be some sort of super-mind that has a reason first for all things? And if so why is this?

Others may come up and I'll ask them here.

 

[firedragon]

In general, people who oppose Mohammad (s) in my experience, they lack political insight and lacks sense of justice.

See, your experience is not Islam. And your experience is not generalised. Thats called the anecdotal fallacy.

Lakum deenukum waliaddeen.

Salam.

 

[Nakosis]

I am only showing you that your standard is double standards. I understand that its your personal view and you are only sharing your view. I am thankful that you do.

But I will show you that its not a fair standard. I hope you understand.

Sorry, I missed the "hard" in hard atheism in your question. I wouldn't accept these ideas about God from hard atheists either.

 

[firedragon]

Interesting. Though I’d change the term “knowledge” in that sentence to “judgement”, for hatred is the result of someone’s judgement - not of their “knowledge”.

Thats not what I said.

Hatred becomes the "source of knowledge". The source of knowledge should be study. When you put on the shades of hatred, hatred itself becomes the source of knowledge.

 

[England my lionheart]

Wrong understanding. I mean so far apart, its probably an understanding of an absolute alien to theology or maybe an understanding of a very layman type Muslim who shouts on the internet.

Ok let’s try another route,followers of Islam in the west are not regarded as true followers of Islam by isis Taliban deobandi Salafi etc because they live under secular law and not your god of Islams law,thus one man’s follower of Islam is not another’s.

 

[firedragon]

Sorry, I missed the "hard" in hard atheism in your question. I wouldn't accept these ideas about God from hard atheists either.

Its not about not accepting something. Its about hating something.

 

[Link]

See, your experience is not Islam. And your experience is not generalised. Thats called the anecdotal fallacy.

Lakum deenukum waliaddeen.

Salam.

The Quran has shown time and time again, believers were oppressed by disbelievers and God saved the believers from the oppressors by destroying the oppressors. Do you think this has changed?

 

[firedragon]

Ok let’s try another route,followers of Islam in the west are not regarded as true followers of Islam by isis Taliban deobandi Salafi etc because they live under secular law and not your god of Islams law,thus one man’s follower of Islam is not another’s.

Oh God. ISIS and the Taliban. ISIS and the Taliban. ISIS and the Taliban. ISIS and the Taliban.

I asked if you knew the meaning the word Kaafir and you bring out ISIS and the Taliban. ISIS and the Taliban. ISIS and the Taliban. ISIS and the Taliban. I keep seeing the same thing a 1000 times a day. In this very forum. See how many blinkers have been put out by the media that people are drunk with it.

No problem. Let me ask you something.

ISIS leader was Baghdadi right? When and where did you hear him say this exact same thing you are asserting? Let me test your source of knowledge.

 

[firedragon]

The Quran has shown time and time again, believers were oppressed by disbelievers and God saved the believers from the oppressors by destroying the oppressors. Do you think this has changed?

Yeah, but also the Quran says over and over again not to mock a "people", and not to generalise your hatred, and it keeps telling you that "their faith is for them, yours is for yours", and it also keeps telling you that you are not god.

And can you show me the "number of verses" you say "God saved the believers from the oppressors by destroying the oppressors"? You said "time and time again" so can you show me the number of verses that says this?

 

[firedragon]

Our government unfortunately has. We presume to have a representative government , but IMO, not so much. I certainly don't agree with our governments involvement in other countries. Our Federal government has its own agenda, its own ideas about what is necessary for its survival. The citizenry is supposed to be in charge but we are manipulated by our media/political system.
There is no one else to blame but evolution has bred us to be more like sheep than shepherds.

I am not blaming the public brother. I am only giving back one generalisation to one generalisation so that the person would understand and face reality.

 

[stevecanuck]

As a theology of an institutionalised Islam, yes, Islam is absolutely more similar to Judaism than Christianity.

I agree, at least in terms of internal matters. When it comes to dealings with the "other", then Islam steps forward with a sword in its hand.

 

[stevecanuck]

But I am not gonna sit and say I hate atheism.

Your god hates atheism. Literally hundreds of verses make that extremely clear. One of my "favorites" is 2:98 - "Allah Ado al kafarina" (God is the enemy of unbelievers").

Hope you understand.

 

[stevecanuck]

The verses about fighting are all conditional that you are at war with certain people but not through you being the instigator, and that permission is given because people are oppressed and the situation is right for fighting.

God teaches fighting and it's noble, but where the situation is right and people are on defending themselves.

He never allows it as a means of oppressing others.

This is the number one lie that apologists tell about Islam.

Please explain why Mohamed was trying to start a war with the Byzantines by marching an army two weeks across the desert to Tabuk. Please explain why a Muslim army had to march to France (all the time conquering its way across north Africa) to defend itself in 732. Then tell about India.

 

[stevecanuck]

Yeah. Many of the west are open minded people. But the west bombed practically most of the world, oppressed a lot of them, stole their wealth, stole them purely for slavery, killed millions of people just within decades, killed more millions 10 within 10 decades, and they will do tomorrow as well.

Not a good yardstick.

Attack. Conquer. Enslave. Oppress.

For a minute there I thought you were talking about Islam's early history.