Baydwin
Well-Known Member
You have a nice approach AJ, but the challenge is really aimed at those who believe in "Creation Science" and a literal interpretation of the creation story in Genesis.
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Creationist Challenge - Build the Ark
- Thread starter Baydwin
- Start date
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Well, can you take S-Word with you because you two are making no sense at all...:sarcastic
I built an ark outta gopher wood
Just like the bible said I should
But it couldn’t float, it would’ve sank
Cos them gophers came, and plank by plank
They took the wood that I stole from them
Now I’ve gonna haveta learn to swim
Yea, when I knew it wouldn’t float
I got all the animals offa the boat
Except for them monkeys what scream and shout
And them dirty penguins, wouldn’t let them out. He Hee Heee …..By S-word
Just like the bible said I should
But it couldn’t float, it would’ve sank
Cos them gophers came, and plank by plank
They took the wood that I stole from them
Now I’ve gonna haveta learn to swim
Yea, when I knew it wouldn’t float
I got all the animals offa the boat
Except for them monkeys what scream and shout
And them dirty penguins, wouldn’t let them out. He Hee Heee …..By S-word
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averageJOE
zombie
So was Noah a real person or just a made up character to fit the story?
Responding to your question: Since I was not around then, and since I have faith in God, I therefore choose to believe Noah and the ark were real.
That does not stop me from understanding the message the story brings.
Let me tell you a story with a message, though it is not real:
There was an old wise man who was intellectually challenged by two young boys.
The boys decided to present the old man with a question that would reveal the old mans wisdom, that is if, the old man was certainly wise.
The boys captured a small live bird, and proposed the question to the old wise man this question: "Old man, I have a bird in my hand behind my back, tell me, is it alive or is it dead?"
The boys thinking was that if the old wise man said "alive", the boy would crush the bird to death, and or if the old man said "dead", the boy would show it alive.
The wise old man replied, "It is as you wish"!
So, whether the story is real or not, the message is real.
God uses many such stories, whether real or not to give us a message, that only in faith can they be understood.
here is a verse that gives us a clue:Hos 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.
The bible as a whole is questionable, only by faith in God can the bible come alive.
Blessings, AJ
We are all responsible for our own actions. God only intervenes when necessary such as to save the righteous in Noah's day from being killed off by the violence in the world.
Please notice 2 Peter 3:5,7,13 'Three' heavens and earth are mentioned.
Verse 5 mentions the heavens and earth of 'old' meaning the time of Noah
Verse 7 mentions 'now' or the world we live in today
verse 13 mentions 'new' where righteousness will dwell at that future time.
When does 'righteousness dwell' on earth but at the time of Jesus 'glory'
[Matthew 25:31,32; 16:27] when Jesus places righteous ones living on earth at that time at his right hand of favor, so to speak, and they, like Noah and his family, remain alive or keep right on living on earth but now into Jesus righteous 1000-year rule over earth when Jesus ushers in Peace on Earth toward men of goodwill.
Instead of a global flood the words from Jesus mouth (Isaiah 11:4; Rev 19:15) will remove the violent off the earth. -Psalm 92:7.
What is refereed to as a "new" is not the existing one being made new, but a condition made new which is spiritual.
For God to give us the freedom of will,(Individuality) there had to be by necessity a separation from God, which equals death by separation.
That condition exists to ever soul that is born of woman.
From that condition, not a rebirth physically, but a rebirth spiritually, is the "New heavens and the new earth refereed to.
In order for God to renew the dead state of mankind, He must renew it for all time by using the seven day creation story as a new beginning for mankind at the point of Jeus' resurrection.
At that time is when the new heavens and the new earth opens its doors to the souls of mankind.
As it is done on earth, so it is done in heaven.
The rainbow contains 7 basic colors, as like the 7 day creation period, that should remind us of the ever all inclusive, unmerited, unconditional love of God us-ward.
The bible and all its contents can be looked at literally to take out verses, stories and make them seem as pure nonsense to the unbeliever.
The bible is the word of God detailing what life is in God, and that it is not of our own.
If we don't believe that, then tell me, what can we do to make this life live forever?
It is appointed for all man once...... to die. Do we have the power to change that?
Blessings, AJ
For God to give us the freedom of will,(Individuality) there had to be by necessity a separation from God, which equals death by separation.
That condition exists to ever soul that is born of woman.
From that condition, not a rebirth physically, but a rebirth spiritually, is the "New heavens and the new earth refereed to.
In order for God to renew the dead state of mankind, He must renew it for all time by using the seven day creation story as a new beginning for mankind at the point of Jeus' resurrection.
At that time is when the new heavens and the new earth opens its doors to the souls of mankind.
As it is done on earth, so it is done in heaven.
The rainbow contains 7 basic colors, as like the 7 day creation period, that should remind us of the ever all inclusive, unmerited, unconditional love of God us-ward.
The bible and all its contents can be looked at literally to take out verses, stories and make them seem as pure nonsense to the unbeliever.
The bible is the word of God detailing what life is in God, and that it is not of our own.
If we don't believe that, then tell me, what can we do to make this life live forever?
It is appointed for all man once...... to die. Do we have the power to change that?
Blessings, AJ
When Jesus who was declared high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, who, girded and clothed with fire, serves God before the body of Adam into all eternity, was made dead in the flesh but alive in spirit he went and preached the Good News to the dead also. From the body of Noah, he preached to those who were disobedient in the days before the flood. The indwelling spirit in Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives, were all the descendents of Enoch, as all 8 souls were descended from Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion and Giadad.
From a "Fragment of the Book of Noah." “Methuselah took a wife for his son Lamech, and she became pregnant by him and bore a son and his body was as white as snow and as red as the blooming of a rose, and the hair on his head and his long locks were white as wool, and his eyes beautiful. And when he opened his eyes, he lighted up the whole house like the sun, and the whole house was very bright. And thereupon he (Who had pre-existed as the man Jesus of Nazareth) arose in the hands of the midwife, opened his mouth, and conversed with the Lord of righteousness. And his father Lamech was afraid of him, (Just as Eve was terrified when she first saw Cain the shinning one and thought to kill him) and Lamech fled and ran to his father Methuselah. And he said to him: “I have begotten a strange son, diverse from and unlike man, and resembling the sons of the God of heaven; and his nature is different, and he is not like us, and his eyes are as the rays of the sun, and his countenance is glorious. And it seems that he is not sprung from me, but from the angels. And I fear that in his days, a wonder may be wrought on the earth.
Jesus who inherited the throne of the indwelling spirit in the body of Post-flood mankind, Is now our indwelling ancestral spirit who is gathering to himself all the spirits of Good people who fall asleep in righteousness, and is the chosen cornerstone to the resurrected simulacrum, who descended and gave to us, his immortal body.
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darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Believers in this thread of an existance of the ark:
Please tell me how:
(1) it would float
(2) it would survive waters which were not completely still
(3) it would survive debree impact which would be unavoidable
(4) where all the water went from the event causing the flood
(5) where the water came from that flooded as high as mount Eribus
Just a few concerns i'd love to see justified.
Please tell me how:
(1) it would float
(2) it would survive waters which were not completely still
(3) it would survive debree impact which would be unavoidable
(4) where all the water went from the event causing the flood
(5) where the water came from that flooded as high as mount Eribus
Just a few concerns i'd love to see justified.
Where do you suppose that the waters during the cretaceous age, when the sea levels were 80 feet higher than they are today, have gone to?
Perhaps if I repeat here post 65, you might just get some idea of the cause of the flood.
I believe that most people take the Bible much too literally, I suppose that they believe also, that the bible states this universal body was created in six literal twenty four hour days.
When Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, the two daughters of Lot believed that all humans in the world had been annihilated, and they got their Father drunk and raped him at different intervals in order to become pregnant and to preserve the human race.
Around 2350 B.C. the time of the flood, the shores around the Mediterranean was the known civilised world that according to the Bible was inundated when the springs of the deep broke forth and it rained for forty days and forty nights and the fact that some major events such as a close encounter with a comet that may have affected the tidal rises of the oceans, plus other events that are said to have taken place around that time, is well documented.
Marie-Agnes Courtys archaeological investigations in the assessment of natural catastrophes around this area at that time including floods and the creation of new lakes (as the springs of the deep broke forth) indicated a combination of a burnt surface horizon air blast, consistent with a Tunguska-like fireball as occurred in Russia, and also the 2350 B.C. major volcanic explosion of Hekla 4 in Iceland that spewed out massive amount of Larva, which is believed to have been a major issue in the inundation of Ireland around 2350 B.C., which left it waste for thirty years, or so the story goes. But you can read it your self, Just Google up Hekla 4. 2350 B.C. and go to News Report on Second SIS Cambridge Conference.
Add to all this the inundation of the Black Sea at the base of the Ararat mountain range, in that same time period when the rapidly rising waters of the Mediterranean Sea broke through the mountain gorge. Perhaps the Ark had been built on high ground forcing the animal population which were the livestock around the area that was being flooded, which were attempting to escape the rising waters, forcing them into Noahs traps, and the ark was washed out to sea, to eventually be washed into the Black Sea and hung up on the Ararat range somewhere.
The only scriptural evidence I can provide to support the theory that it was only the known civilised world of that day from Egypt and all around the coast of the Mediterranean, is from the Book of Jubilees 4: 23; And he (Enoch) was taken from amongst the children of men, and we (The Angels) conducted him into the Garden of Eden in majesty and honour, and behold there he writes down the condemnation and judgement of the world, and all the wickedness of the children of men. And on account of it (The God Hide Thyself) brought the waters of the flood upon all the land of Eden.
The earthly Eden is not the entire earth, but in ancient religious writtings it generally refers to the areas around Egypt.
As to the sea worthiness and durability of the Ark, I watched a program where some ship builders looked at the design of the ark, and they were convined of its total seaworthiness, strength and duribility. she was a bonza boat matey.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
my appologies for coming in late into the discussion but i too have a challenge back.
i challenge all evolutionists to make a magical poof in the sky resulting in a new universe with new planets and life also. if you can do this then i will not call myself a creationist anymore.
i challenge all evolutionists to make a magical poof in the sky resulting in a new universe with new planets and life also. if you can do this then i will not call myself a creationist anymore.
tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Your challenge is meaningless for many reasons.
- Biological Evolution has nothing to do with Physical Cosmology.
- Physical Cosmology does not rely on magic.
- The "poof" or Big Bang you are referring to did not occur in the "sky"
- I doubt you would be able to survive 4.5 billion years to see the results of such an occurrence.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
The cretaceous period was 65 - 145 million years ago. The point you make is so irellevant. Serious amount of uplift happened during and after that period meaning the earth was by far more low-lying than it is today. I love it when people refer to this time, it really is quite amusing.
Guhhh..... heard it all before. I love creationists, they can never really ever agree on what the story actually is and thats the only thing keeping their story alive.
Yes but if you lookhow much ship building advanced since then. I mean come on, look aat the ships Carthage and Rome build, they would not withstand turbulent waters.
Also, how says you on the point i made about debree?
In terms of size, there is no way it could survive. It would have to almost titanic sized.
I can't believe people cling to such possibilities, its more than absurd.
ragordon168
Active Member
if we're using fiction as evidence im going with 'atlantis' by david gibbins. atlantis is where the black sea is now with the bosphorous keeping the mediterainian out. then the med floods and atlantis drowns, most die but some build boats and float away to safety with their animals.
there we go tied two myths together and as they say 2 is better than 1
there we go tied two myths together and as they say 2 is better than 1
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
just as i thought, thnks for poving me right.
johnhanks
Well-Known Member
As your challenge bore no relation to any cosmological theory (let alone to biological evolution), your triumphalism is to say the least misplaced.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
who siad anything about limiting it to biological evolution?
my challenge was very clear, create a new universe collide a positron and neutron or what ever like the scientists are trying to do in europe and make life exist in it. i am not setting out any rules you speead up the proces or what ever to see the changes surely you can do that, i mean our universe didn't have an intelligent human to watch over it. so it took time you should not have a problem in doing this right? right?