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Featured COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    This does not make them an entirely separate law.

    So you're more concerned with what was written on physical stone than what G-d commanded and continued to command? Is it that you expect @Tumah and I to etch our arguments against you on stone tablets; would they carry more meaning to you that way? I also guess the Oral Law has no meaning to you whatsoever because it wasn't written until the common era.

    You realise that the Torah is not written in a book, yes? It's written on a scroll and it includes the ten commandments you keep talking about. Because they're part of the same Torah. I'm surprised and a bit disturbed that you seem to think laws against kidnap, rape, mistreating animals and sodomy are only 'supporting' and not really relevent in themselves.

    There is no book.

    They were spoken by G-d to Moshe, who spoke to the Israelites because they were unable to hear the vice of G-d and live. G-d is still giving commandments, but He can't give them to a group of dead people so he used Moshe as a mouthpiece as the Israelites asked him.


    Yes, I agree; I disagree that this makes them any more relevent than any of the others.

    Moshe made no laws. They were spoken to him from G-d.


    I don't care what your Christian scriptures say.

    I'm not ignoring anything.
     
  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Indeed I was saying earlier some time ago to Rival as he was not interested in a discussion of the law and the propets pointing to JESUS as the coming Messiah was like buying a plane ticket for a holiday than missing the plane which has already departed thinking the plane is late o_O

    Anyhow you can lead a horse to water...
     
  3. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    @Crosstian

    [​IMG]

    Been waiting for your list of activities since yesterday.

    So what do your people do from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset?
    Would that start at 6:00 pm?
    So what are the activities?

    Friday
    6:00 pm
    7;00 pm
    8:00 pm
    9:00 pm
    10:00 pm
    11:00 pm


    Saturday
    12:00 am
    1:00 am
    2:00 am
    3:00 am
    4:00 am
    5:00 am
    6:00 am
    7;00 am
    8:00 am
    9:00 am
    10:00 am
    11:00 am
    12:00 pm
    1:00 pm
    2:00 pm
    3:00 pm
    4:00 pm
    5:00 pm
    6:00 pm

    So how does your Sabbath look like and what do you do?
     
  4. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    I'm an ex-Christian. You won't be presenting anything to me that I haven't already rejected.
     
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  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Sure it does God commanded that they were to be separate. God wrote and made the 10 commandments on two tables of stone. Moses wrote the book of the law and God commanded them to be separated in the ark of the covenant. Ignoring Gods Word does not make it dissappear **Deuteronomy 5:22; Deuteronomy 10:5; Deuteronomy 31:26.
    Well that is not true. If you have God's Word share it. If you haven't why make up pretend arguments no one is making or have said? It seems you do not have scripture for what you believe. Does that not worry you? It should.

    Your response...
    Sure they were scrolls together they make up the books we have today right? Of Course the 10 Commandments are written in the torah because all the laws in the torah as pointed out earlier through the scriptures revolve around God's 10 Commandments which are the standard of rightouesness *Psalms 119:172 when obeyed and sin when broken. Most of the Levitical Priesthood, the sanctuary service and sin offerings revolve around God's 10 commandments right? As do all the laws from the book (scrolls) of the law written by Moses and commanded to be separated by God.
    There you go denying God's Word again. How many commandments did God speak and write on two tables of stone that nothing more was to be added and God commanded to keep separate from the book (scroll) of the law; 7; 9; 10 or 613? * Deuteronomy 10:4?
    All of God's Word is important. Although your lost in the shadow laws from the book (scroll) of shadows that pointed to the Messiah that you missed because you did not know the day of your visitation.

    God's LAW (10 commandments) are given by God alone and made by no man. They give us the knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Rightouesness and are the very standard of our duty of love to God *Deuteronomy 6:5 and our neighbore *Leviticus 19:18.

    I am surprised you do not know that this very law is the central pillar of all the ceremonial laws of the Levitical Priestood, the earthly sanctuary (temple) and all the sin offerings. They were to sit inside the ark of the covenant underneath the mercy seat while the shadow laws were placed at the side of the ark.

    You claim they are no more important than any of the shadow laws written by Moses in the book (scrolls) of the covenant. Yet it is these very laws that define sin and rightoeusness.

    You are caught up in shadows of things to come not knowing what they pointed to missing the plane you were waiting for because you did not know the time of your visitation. If what you say is true why did God write his Law alone and why did he not give them to Moses to write? We are not talking about speaking now are we...
    Keep telling yourself that but here you still are deep down inside you feel something is missing in your own life but you do not know what it is. Perhaps it is time to hear Gods Word.
     
    #285 3rdAngel, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Than Hebrews 10:26-39 is applicable to our discussion. Do you know what it means?
     
    #286 3rdAngel, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  7. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    Where does it command this? All it says is that Moshe put the tablets in the Ark. The next one says the scroll was also put in the Ark. The ten sayings are also written on the scroll(s).

    I'm not making up anything. The Torah is scripture. All of it. I'm honestly not sure where you're going with this.

    Pretty much the whole of one scroll, Vayikra/Leviticus is dedicated to Levitical precepts. A whole scroll.

    Exodus 31:1-13,
    The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: "And you, speak to the children of Israel and say: 'Only keep My Sabbaths! For it is a sign between Me and you for your generations, to know that I, the Lord, make you holy."

    Exodus 35:1,
    Moses called the whole community of the children of Israel to assemble, and he said to them: "These are the things that the Lord commanded to make.

    Leviticus 1:1-2,
    And He called to Moses, and the Lord spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting, saying,
    Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: When a man from [among] you brings a sacrifice to the Lord; from animals, from cattle or from the flock you shall bring your sacrifice.

    Leviticus 4:1-2,
    And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
    Speak to the children of Israel, saying: If a person sins unintentionally [by committing one] of all the commandments of the Lord, which may not be committed, and he commits [part] of one of them

    Leviticus 5:20-21
    And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
    If a person sins, betraying the Lord by falsely denying to his fellow concerning a deposit, or money given in hand, or an object taken by robbery, or he withheld funds from his fellow,

    Leviticus 6:1-2,
    And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
    Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: That is the burnt offering which burns on the altar all night until morning, and the fire of the altar shall burn with it.

    Leviticus 6:12-13
    And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying,
    This is the offering of Aaron and his sons, which they shall offer to the Lord, on the day when [one of them] is anointed: One tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a perpetual meal offering, half of it in the morning and half of it in the evening.

    This goes on and on.


    There are no such thing as 'shadow laws'; this is a Christian interpolation, and even then you are the only Christian I've ever heard say this. The Torah is forever; all of it, there's nothing 'shadow' about it.

    Please do not talk to me like this. This very rude. I am more than happy with my faith and you are in no position to talk to me in this arrogant way.

    I don't care what it says, must I repeat this?
     
    #287 Rival, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  8. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    The correct use of the word (THAN) in your last sentence, should have read, "Rather [THAN] continuing here, there is nothing else to discuss and I will leave that between you and God to work through

    I have noticed that in many instances throughout this thread, (As in the last sentence of your previous post) instead of using the word 'THEN', you use the word 'THAN" in the wrong context in which it should be used, as you do with the scriptures that you scatter throughout your posts in your attempt to support your erroneous beliefs, of which erroneous beliefs, is the fact that you believe that Abraham's descendants were in EGYPT for over 400 years.

    I am still waiting for you to reveal the date that you believe the Exodus occurred, in order that I might put you on the right pathway to the truth as I have done in revealing to you the future reality of the Weekly Sabbath, as revealed by Paul in Col 2: 16-17..
     
    #288 The Anointed, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  9. tгєรкเค

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    Those who say Israel's bloodline on the earth is no more, I do not believe it.

    For the scripture has said that God spared Himself at least 70, 000 people even to this days that had endured faithfully in keeping His Sabbath. One tenth of whom(7000) now serves in the heavenly tabernacle of God, and If I'm not wrong Revelation clearly states that Heavenly Israel are composed of the multitudes from among all nations and about 144,000 in them were from the bloodlines /tribes of Jacob, who will serve God as His Heavenly priests and Heavenly Kings administering unto to the whole nations of the Earth through the power of His Holy Spirit.

    Thus the thousand year reign of the Son of Man on earth is indeed the Sabbath day of our Lord. But the Sabbath day of our Lord Jesus, the son of man, is just the sixth day(the day also when Adam was created) in God's time. And this will conclude at the hour of the Great White Throne judgment of God(this is Shabbat of God when He rest on His throne), which is the beginning of the seventh day, the Sabbath day of our God, the Father, when His Holy Spirit rests upon the Father, Himself on His throne( on His own body).

    The Seventh day of God is also the day where His people can finally rest with God in His Presence, this is the day of Sabbath taught by Moses in His Laws and Commandments that is fulfilled by God through the kingdom of JesusChrist in the New Jerusalem, in the New Earth for eternity.

    The Sabbath of God is Holy, for it is the day the Holy Spirit of God was made, and the Shabbat day of Moses commemorates the seventh day When god made His Holy Spirit pour upon his whole creation, that is to rest and reside through His annointed ones, It is the day when God made His Spirit descend from heaven to Earth. When it descended to Jesus, He was made Lord of IT (Sabbath).

    So when we profane the Sabbath, we are profaning the Holy Spirit of God and His annointed people.

    Sabbath is not just Saturdays or Sundays, nor even Shabbat days of the week,
    Sabbath is the Day of the outpouring of The Holy Spirit.

    Please refrain from profaning the Sabbath(The Holy Spirit), for JesusChrist, the annointed Emmanuel, the God with us, the Lord of Sabbath-The Lord of the Holy Spirit even unto these days-the filioque of the Sabbath day of God even testify of the Holy Spirit come Judgment day when the Alpha and Omega are one again. Amen.
     
    #289 tгєรкเค, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  10. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I see what you're saying, but some things are just so obvious and well known, that it doesn't really need more information.

    This is equivalent to me telling you that the correct order of the English alphabet is A, B, C, T, E, F, G. Her confused kabbalistic beliefs notwithstanding, the Hebrew/Phoenecian Abjad sequence is quite well documented: it gave rise to the Greek alphabet which turned into the Latin alphabet, which eventually defined the English alphabetical order. The Book of Jeremiah uses an Atbash cipher - indicating that the Abjad sequence existed even then. So there's really no reason to take her point seriously at all.
     
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  11. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your post. I accept part of your post and ask your forgiveness as sometimes I write on the rush without checking grammer or spelling somtimes and it is something I need to work on and improve in forum posting. So I thank you for this part of your post. As to you still waiting for dates on how long the Israelites were slaves in Egypt? I posted earlier to you that this was a distraction to what I was posting and is simply off topic to the OP therefore had no interest in this discussion. In response another brother kindly addressed your claims in a detailed scripture reply in posts 248 linked and also included a post on your use of faulty references in post # 269 linked as a further help to you.

    Your claims to the Sabbath being a shadow was also shown to be in error in previous posts by proving through the scriptures alone that God's 4th commandment Sabbath has never been a shadow law as it was a part of a finished work of creation before sin and before Gods' plan of salvation which makes that claim impossible *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27; Isaiah 66:23; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14.

    I am also still waiting for you to stop going off topic and address the OP here which is on the correct application of Colossians 2:16-17 which many take out of context to try and say something which it does not say which is what the OP here is about. Can I suggest you read post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked from the OP as they prove that Colossians 2:11-17 and if you disagree please show why you disagree through the scriptures if you cannot why not believe God's Word?
     
    #291 3rdAngel, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hi tгєรкเค nice to meet you and thanks for your comments here :)

    The discussion of who God's ISRAEL is in the new covenant can be found in the linked post below...

    God's Israel in the new testament who is it *Romans 9:6-8

    For me I believe Gods' Word teaches that God's 4th commandments Sabbath according to the scriptures is the "seventh day" of the week *Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Matthew 12:8. This is the day that God set apart on the "seventh day" of the creation week, "blessed" and made as a "holy day" of rest for all mankind before the fall of mankind *Genesis 2:1-3 and commanded his people after the fall to keep as a "holy day" in God's 4th commandment (being one of God's 10 commandments) that gives us a knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20. It is impossible for God's seventh day Sabbath to be a shadow as there was not sin or plan of salvation given to man when it was made and it was a part of the finished work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3.

    This thread though is on Colossians 2:16-17 did you read the OP and have anything to share? It is ok either way as the whole through so far has been pretty much off topic as no one seems to want to discuss the OP here for some reason.

    God bless
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    The purpose of Shabbat was to have a day of rest and to be in communion with others, thus the specific day of the week observed is less important. The Church in the 2nd century made a gradual move to having that day on "the Lord's Day", thus Sunday, since that is the day they were partaking in the "Agape Meal" that's mentioned in the "Didache".
     
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  14. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hi metis, great to meet you and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us :).

    According to God's Word the day is important. At the end of creation where God made the heavens and the earth in six days and rested on the seventh, God "blessed" and set apart the "seventh day" from all the other days of the week and "blessed the seventh day" and made the "seventh day a holy day" as a memorial and celebration of creation and God as the creator of all things in heaven and in earth *Genesis 2:1-3. After the fall God's 4th commandment states we are to remember the "seventh day" as a memorial and celebration of creation and God as th e creator *Exodus 20:8-11.

    God's people have never moved away from God's direction to keep the 4th commandment as God's 4th commandment has been kept unboken from JESUS to all the apostles to all the disciples all through time to this very present day. There is no such thing as "THE LORDS DAY" being Sunday and there is no scripture support for this teaching. It is a man made teaching and tradition that is simply not biblical as there is no scripture that says "THE LORDS DAY" is Sunday or the first day of the week. According to the scriptures alone "THE LORDS DAY" is the sabbath day *Matthew 12:8.

    Thanks for sharing metis

    God bless
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Here are the 613 Commandments as found in Torah that includes the verses as to where they're found: Judaism 101: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

    Do you observe all of them, including the kosher laws, for just one example?

    Ditto.
     
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    That was the early Church's terminology based on the fact that Jesus resurrected on that day.
     
  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Indeed although your mixing up the shadow laws from the Mosiac book of the old covenant *HEBREWS 7; HEBREWS 8; HEBREWS 9 and HEBREWS 10 that point to JESUS as the Messiah and our great sacrifice for sin and his role in the new covenant with God's eternal law (10 commandments) that give us the knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Righteousness in the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172

    According to God's Word in the new covenant if we break any one of Gods' 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Sunday as a substitution for God's 4th Commandment is a teaching and tradition of men that breaks the commandments of God which JESUS warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9.

    According to God's Word all those who knowingly practice sin will not enter the kingdom of heave because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Romans 6:23; Hebrews 10:26-39.

    God has his people in every Church *John 10:16 and knows that his people have been led astray by man made teachings and traditions that break his commandments and in times of ignorance God does not hold us accountable for sin but when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word calls all men everywhere to believe and follow him *Acts 17:30-31.

    God is calling his people out from following man made teachings and traditions *Matthew 15:3-9 back to the pure Word of God *John 4:23-24; Revelation 18:1-4

    God's Sheep hear His Voice (the Word of God) and follow him *John 10:26-27
     
  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Indeed but has no basis in scripture and is a false application to Revelation 1:10.
     
  19. Crosstian

    Crosstian Baring the Cross

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    Oh, ... that Didache, you mean that pieced together mess from varying sources?

    ".... The document is a composite work ...The contents may be divided into four parts, which most scholars agree were combined from separate sources by a later redactor ..." - Didache - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]

    Which is presently abused to make it say "Lord's day" when in fact, the Greek says,

    "... 1. Κατὰ κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου συναχθέντες κλάσατε ἄρτον καὶ εὐχαριστήσατε, προεξομολογησάμενοι τὰ παραπτώματα ὑμῶν, ὅπως καθαρὰ ἡ θυσία ὑμῶν ᾐ. ..." - The Twelve Apostles-Didache

    Where is the word for "day" (hemera)? Where is the word for "Sunday"? Where is the word "first"?

    It literally reads, "κυριακὴν δὲ κυρίου" (Lord of Lord).

    The translation to "Lord's day" here is quite imaginary. See more of that fraud here - Sunday Fraud: Church "Fathers" on the Lord's Day

    The original Greek (Didache 14:1) does not have the word for "day" anywhere in that sentence and secondly, neither is the word "Sunday" present.
     
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  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Yep the Didache is an abused document that is an outside source that is not God's Word.
     
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