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Featured COL 2:16 And The Sabbath - Are You Being Told The Truth?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 3rdAngel, Nov 1, 2019.

  1. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    What do you think is the meaning of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17?

    Many people pull up COLOSSIANS 2:16 in an attempt to cherry pick scripture without considering

    1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT

    2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT

    3. THE GREEK WORD MEANINGS OF THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT

    4. CONTEXT TO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURE WITHIN ALL SCRIPTURE

    In order to argue Sunday (first day of the week) is the new Christian Sabbath instead of God's seventh day sabbath which is God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments.

    In the days of JESUS and the Disciples their bible was the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures so everything that we have in the NEW TESTAMENT scriptures comes from the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures.

    The point being made here is that much of the NEW TESTAMENT has direct links and is directly quoting OLD TESTAMENT scripture which with a prayerful study of God's Word can help us understand the meanings and context of what is being discussed in the NEW TESTAMENT which in many cases are a fulfillment of the OLD SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

    I would like to propose an evaluation of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 using all of the above applied to COLOSSIANS 2 for chapter context and in particular COLOSSIANS 2:16 for within scripture context linking the scritures from the OLD TESTAMENT that are being discussed here.

    The reason being, many people try to simply use a single NEW TESTAMENT scripture (COLOSSIANS 2:16) which they pull out of the CHAPTER and the within SCRIPTURE CONTEXT and separate it from all the scriptures provided in God’s Word from which it is quoting to try and make it say things that it is not saying.

    This is a discussion that I hope will encourage you and challenge you to dig deep into God's WORD, praying and asking JESUS to be your guide and teacher which he promises to do to all those who ask him and seek him to answer the question...

    IS COLOSSIANS 2 SAYING THAT WE ARE NO LONGER TO KEEP GOD'S SABBATH?

    I believe you all are my brothers and sisters and that God's people are in all churches living up to all the light that God has revealed to them. The hour is coming and now is however that God is calling his people wherever they may be OUT FROM FOLLOWING THE TEACHINGS AND TRADITIONS OF MEN back to the pure words of GOD alone. God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship him in Spirit and in truth *JOHN 10:17; JOHN 4:23-24

    This thread is to discuss what the context of Colossians 2:16-17 is discussing to determine the scripture applications. What are your thoughts?

    May you receive God's WORD and be blessed.
     
  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Colossians 2:16-17
    16 So don’t let anyone make rules for you about eating and drinking or about Jewish customs (festivals, New Moon celebrations, or Sabbath days). 17 In the past these things were like a shadow that showed what was coming. But the new things that were coming are found in Christ.

    .
    Sounds pretty straightforward to me. :shrug: Stop following old Jewish customs. Instead, follow those founded on the Christian faith.

    .

    .
     
    #2 Skwim, Nov 1, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2019
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  3. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hi there Skwim nice to meet you here :)

    Possibly could seem straight forward if one pulls the scriptures out of context to the rest of the chapter and bible in order to cherry pick a single scripture to support something it is not saying. It is ok many do it to try and argue that God's 4th commandment has been abolished when this is not saying this at all, or is it even talking about God's 10 commandments.

    I will post shortly what I have been learning from the scriptures looking at the within scripture and chapter context and and greek word meaning and their connection to both the old and new testament scriptures. I was just wanting to see at the moment though if anyone can prove what this single scripture is in reference to God's 4th Commandment.

    God bless
     
  4. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    If you are not an Israelite, there is no reason for you to observe the Sabbath.
    Why observe a rule when it was specifically given to the Israelites?


    Exodus 31:13
    Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

    Exodus 31:16
    The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.

    Exodus 35:1
    [ Sabbath Regulations ] Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, “These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do:

    Leviticus 23:24
    “Say to the Israelites: ‘On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of sabbath rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts.

    Leviticus 24:8
    This bread is to be set out before the Lord regularly, Sabbath after Sabbath, on behalf of the Israelites, as a lasting covenant.

    Leviticus 25:2
    “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you, the land itself must observe a sabbath to the Lord.

    Next the proper observance of the Sabbath requires the death penalty imposed on those who do not observe the Sabbath.

    Exodus 31:14
    “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people.

    Exodus 31:15
    For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death.

    Exodus 35:2
    For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death.

    An example would be:


    Numbers 15:32-36 New International Version (NIV)
    While the Israelites were in the wilderness, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp.” So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.

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  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hope you did not mind me removing your videos as they are simply a distraction when discussing the scriptures. As posted earlier in another thread to you...

    God's 4th commandment Sabbath *Exodus 20:8-11 is indeed a sign to "ISRAEL" that they are God's people and it is God who is sancifying (saving) them. What you have ignored from the very scripture you quote the children of Israel are commanded to keep the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant (unending convenant). Let's examine this in a little more detail through the scriptures and show why your interpretation and application is in error.

    Your argument here is that God's 4th commandment Sabbath is only for Israel and you have provided scriptures showing that God's 4th commandment is to God's Israel.

    It is not really a well thought through argument if you do not mind me saying as there are 10 commandments of which God's 4th Commandment is only one of them and it is like trying to argue that everyone of God's 10 commandments are now abolished. Yet it is God's Word in the new covenant that says God's LAW (10 commandments) gives us the knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Rightesousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Jesus did not come to abolishe them *Matthew 5:17-19 and Paul says according to the new covenant which is to God's Israel that God's Law is to be fulfilled in is through faith that works by love *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 8:1-4; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31. So your interpretation of the scriptures here brother has you contradicting both JESUS and Paul in the new testament.

    Let's look at your argument that God's law is only to Isreal in the Old covenant a little further..

    1a.
    Under both the old and new covenant, God's "ISRAEL" is only a name given by God to his people *Genesis 32:28. Gods ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. ISREAL and JEWS and Gentiles believers in the new covenant are all a part of Gods ISRAEL and this is who the NEW covenant applies to. HEBREWS 8:10-12 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" and again "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *ROMANS 2:28-29. Gentiles believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27. So as you can see here Gods' ISRAEL today are all those who believe and follow God's Word and God's 4th commandment Sabbath is still a "perpetual convenant as shown in Exodus 31:16-17.

    2a. According to JESUS he as creator and Lord of the Sabbath *Mark 2:28; John 1:1-4; 14 made the Sabbath for all mankind *Mark 2:27. The Sabbath was made for all mankind according to God's Word on the "Seventh day" of the creation week after God created all things in six days and rested on the seventh day where he "blessed the seventh day" and set it apart from all the other days of the week as a "Holy day" of rest for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3. Where your sources argument's falls down is that it claims that the Sabbath is only for God's ISRAEL. While this is true as shown above it is misleading as all those who believe and follow Gods' Word are God's ISRAEL today because this is who the new covenant is applied to. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL we have no part in the New Covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. 2b. Pay close attention here because this makes it very clear. When God made the Sabbath for mankind *Mark 2:27 there was no Israel, no Jew, no sin and mankind was in perfect harmony with God and no plan of salvation was needed and the Sabbath was created as a part of the finished work of creation *Genesis 2:1-3

    ...........

    Just out of interest in relation to the death penalty for breaking the Sabbath under the civil laws of Isreal in the Old Covenant? Nothing really changes here as the wages of sin is still death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Hebrews 10:26-39; Romans 6:23. We are in the new covenant now and vengence is mine says the Lord *ROMANS 12:17-19; REVELATION 22:12. We are not in the old covenant now under the Mosaic civil laws of Israel.

    Under the civil laws of Israel in the old covenant anyone openly breaking nearly anyone of God's 10 Commandments were put to death *Deuteronomy 13:6-18; 1 Sammuel 26:19; Deuteronomy 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; Deuteronomy 7:25-26; Leviticus 24:10-17; Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; Leviticus 20:9; Deuteronomy21:18-21; Exodus 21:17; Exodus 21:12-14; Leviticus 20; JOHN 8:5; Exodus 21:16; Deuteronomy 19:15-21. That was to teach God's people the wages of SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) is death as it does in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 6:23

    So nope nothing you have provided in your post says that God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    Did you wish you address the OP now?
     
    #5 3rdAngel, Nov 2, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Ok let's get to it and examine what Colossian 2 is really saying by adding the context back in...

    1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:11-17

    I will possibly spend some time here examining the CHAPTER CONTEXT because the chapter context will determine the “SUBJECT MATTER” and “TOPIC OD CONVERSATION being discussed and the context the scripture is being applied to. So what we are seeking to discover here is……

    1. WHAT IS THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION AND TOPIC OF COLOSSIANS 2:16?

    This will help us to understand what COLOSSIANS 2:16 is talking about. Let’s start by looking at COLOSIANS 2:11-14 which will help us to understand COLOSSIANS 2:16.

    Let's start...

    COLOSSIANS 2:11-17 CHAPTER CONTEXT
    [11], In whom also you are CIRCUMCISION with the CIRCUMCISION made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
    [12], Buried with him in baptism, in which also you are risen with him through the faith of the working of God, who has raised him from the dead.
    [13], And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, has he made alive together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    [14], BLOTTING OUT the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    [15], And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    [16], Let no man therefore judge you in FOOD AND DRINK, or in respect of a HOLY DAY [FESTIVAL], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:
    [17], Which are a SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

    CHAPTER CONTEXT OF COL 2:14 AND SUBJECT MATTER (COL 2:11-17)

    V11. Shadows of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing to CIRCUMCISION of the HEART MADE WITHOUT HANDS by the CIRCUMCISION of Christ.

    THE SHADOW LAWS FORETOLD IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES….

    DEUTERONOMY 10:16 [16] CIRCUMCISE THERFORE THE FORESKIN OF YOUR HEART, and be no more stiff-necked.

    DEUTERONOMY 30:6 [6] And the LORD your God will CIRCUMCISE YOUR HEART AND THE HEART OF YOUR DECENDENCE, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART AND WITHYOU’RE YOUR SOUL, THAT YOU MAY LIVE.

    JEREMIAH 4:4 [4] CIRCUMCISE YOURSELF TO THE LORD, AND TAKE AWAY THE FORESKINS OF YOUR HEART, you men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

    NOTE: NEW COVENANT FULFILLMENT of the SHADOWS of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION pointing the CIRCUMCISION of the HEART through faith in Christ…

    ROMANS 2:25-29 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.

    1 CORITHIANS 7:19 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

    This is the operation of GOD in the NEW COVENANT…

    HEBREWS 8:10 [10], For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND WRITE THEM IN THEIR HEARTS [NOTE: THE SHADOW OF CIRCUMCSION]: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    CONCLUSION; The CEREMONIAL ORDINANCE of CIRCUMCISION is a Shadow law from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT pointing to a NEW HEART to LOVE and OBEY GOD in the NEW COVENANT. The SHADOW laws of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION from the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant are the within CHAPTER CONTEXT BEFORE COL 2:14

    Let's continue on through the chapter...

    COLOSSIANS 2:14 SCRIPTURE SUBJECT MATTER AND CONTENT.

    14, Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

    14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφω exaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase> the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφον cheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLESIASTICAL LAWS> that was against us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7.

    V14
    Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT.

    The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA meaning THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant *EXODUS 24:7

    This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). Also the chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS ALONG WITH THE ORDINANCES OF v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

    ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments which is death) and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

    ECCLESIASTES 18:20 20, The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.

    ROMANS 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    DEUTERONOMY 31:26 [26] Take this Book of the Law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

    DEUTERONOMY 30:19 [19] For GOD has said, I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, BLESSINGS AND CURSES: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: [20] That thou mayest love the Lord thy God, and that thou mayest OBEY his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

    The death penalty is against us. So were all the ceremonial laws from the OLD COVENANT that were required to seek God's forgiveness *LEVITICUS 16. In the NEW COVENANT we are forgiven by FAITH through confession and repentance for our sins *1 JOHN 1:9; MATTHEW 3:2 . No more animal sacrifices required.

    (See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

    ……….

    So, what is the answer to the question we asked earlier

    1. WHAT IS THE TOPIC OF CONVERSATION AND TOPIC OF COLOSSIANS 2:16?

    ANSWER; As shown through the scriptures above in COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 linked to the OLD and NEW TESATMANT scriptures, the “CONTEXT”, “SUBJECT MATTER” and TOPIC OF CONVERSATION” of COL 2:11-14 is talking about the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the “SHADOW LAWS” from the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION in the NEW COVENANT. The “CONTEXT” and “SUBJECT MATTER” of COLOSSIANS 2:16 is not referring to ABOLISHING any one of God’s 10 Commandments.
     
  7. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:14

    In the last section we looked at the “WITHIN CHAPTER CONTEXT” of COLOSSIANS 2:16 now in this section we will look at the “WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTECT” and GREEK WORD MEANINGS of COLOSSIANS 2:14 which supports what has already been presented in the “CHAPTER CONTEXT” demonstrated through the scriptures in the previous post.

    Looking at the within scripture word meaning of and context of COLOSSIANS 2:14-16 continued..

    COLOSSIANS 2:14 [14], Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    GREEK WORD MEANINGS AND WORD USE

    14, “BLOTTING OUT” < G1813 ἐξαλείφωexaleipho (ex-a-lei'-fō) v. means to rub out, i.e. obliterate, erase>the “HANDWRITING” < G5498 χειρόγραφον cheirographon (chei-ro'-gra-fon) n. means something hand-written (“chirograph”), a manuscript specially, a legal document > of “ORDINANCES” < G1378 δόγμα dogma (d̮og'-ma) n. means ordinance; CIVIL, CEREMONIAL or ECCLIESIASTICAL laws >that was against us, WHICH WERE AGAINST , and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    The GREEK WORD meanings here in this scripture show that it follows the same CONTEXT of v11-13 is in relation to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT (i.e. shadow law of circumcision).

    So with the GREEK word meanings added for clarification the scripture context of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 reads..

    V14 Blotting out or erasing the legal MANUSCRIPT or document of ORDINANCES referred to here are those of the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT. The GREEK word for ORDIANACE is DOGMA mean ing THE CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES once again only found in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant

    What is being REPLACED in the NEW COVANANT is the CIVIL, CEREMONIAL and ECCLESIASTICAL laws and ORDINANCES not God's 10 commandments!

    This scripture cannot be referring to the abolishing of the 10 commandments of God’s LAW as God’s 10 Commandments are not ORDINANCES and they are not written in a MANUSCRIPT they are written on two tables of stone (Exodus 31:18). The chapter CONTEXT is in reference to the CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES of CIRCUMCISION once again from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT. These were all SHADOWS and ORDINANCES OF the Mosaic BOOK of the Covenant v17 pointing to Christ and the plan of SALVATION.

    ORDINANCES that were against us is referring to the also referring to the PENALTY of SIN (breaking God’s Commandments and the ORDINANCES of curses written once again in the MOSAIC BOOK of the Covenant.

    DEUTERONOMY 31 [26] TAKE THIS BOOK OF THE LAW, and put it in the side of the ark of the COVENANT of the LORD your God, that it may be there FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE.

    DEUTERONOMY 29 [21] And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, ACCORDING TO ALL THE CURSES OF THE COVENANT that are WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW.

    (See the list of ORDINACES for curses of breaking Gods’ Law in DEUTERONOMY 28:15-68)

    ………..

    WHAT IS THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT OF COLOSSIANS 2:14?

    ANSWER; The “WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT” and Greek word meaning support the scriptures provided in the “CHAPTER CONTEXT”. COL 2:14 is talking about the CIVIL CEREMONIAL AND ECCLESIASTICAL ORDINANCES written in the MOSIAC BOOK of the Covenant which are SHADOW laws pointing to Jesus and God’s plan of SALVATION. This is supported also by the within CHAPTER CONTEXT and SUBJECT matter of v16 which are all CEREMONIAL ORDINANCES written in the MOCAIC BOOK of the COVENANT and not referring to ABOLISHING God’s 10 Commandments.
     
  8. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    3. LINKING THE NEW TO THE OLD – COLOSSIANS 2:14 “ORDINANCES” CONTINUED

    COLOSSIANS 2:14 [14], Blotting out the HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross


    HEBREWS 9:1;9-10; 12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    old covenant...blood of goats.....The meat and drink offerings

    HEBREWS 10 [4] FOR IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:[6] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.[7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.[8] Above when he said, sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;[9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND.

    EPHESIANS 2:15-16 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

    HEBREWS 13:9-12 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

    The first covenant had ORDINANCES which stood ONLY in meat and drink offerings which were a figure. A shadow

    EZEKIEL 46:14 [14] And thou shalt prepare a meat offering for it every morning, the sixth part of an ephah, and the third part of an hin of oil, to temper with the fine flour; a MEAT OFFERING continually by a perpetual ORDINANCE unto the LORD.

    HEBREWS 10:1-4 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. [3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

    Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings).

    NUMBERS 19:2 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

    JOHN 6:55 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

    NUMBERS 18:8 [8] And the LORD spake unto Aaron, Behold, I also have given thee the charge of mine heave offerings of all the hallowed things of the children of Israel; unto thee have I given them by reason of the anointing, and to thy sons, BY AN ORDINANCE for ever.[9] This shall be thine of the most holy things, reserved from the fire: EVERY OBLATION of theirs, EVERY MEAT OFFERING of theirs, and EVERY SIN OFFERING of theirs, and every trespass offering of theirs, which they shall render unto me, shall be most holy for thee and for thy sons.The new covenant is all about the blood of Christ and God's LAW written on the heart in those who BELIEVE the WORD of GOD. Not changing the law....but fulfilling the law

    ROMANS 3:31 [31], Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

    ZECHARIAH 9:9-11 [9] Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE: HE IS JUST, AND HAVING SALVATION; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.[10] And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from river even to the ends of the earth.[11] As for thee also, BY THE BLOOD OF THY COVENANT I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water

    Verse 9 definitely prophecies of the coming Jesus. Verse 11, Jesus is called the blood of thy covenant

    HEBREWS 12:23-24 [23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[24] And to Jesus THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    New covenant... blood

    LUKE 22 [19] And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. [20] Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, THIS CUP IS THE NEW TESTAMENT IN MY BLOOD, which is shed for you.

    Where is all this leading? The NEW COVENANT of course...

    JEREMIAH 31:31-34, [31] Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:[32], NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt ; MY COVENANT WHICH THEY BROKE, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD:[33], But THIS SHALL BE MY COVENANT THAT I SHALL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISREAL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND I WILL WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE; [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    2 CORINTHIANS 3:2-3 [2], You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: [3], Since you are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, WRITTEN NOT WITH INK, BUT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN THE FLESHLY TABLES OF THE HEART. (see all of 2 COR 3)

    …………

    CONCLUSION;
    Jesus did not come to change or destroy GOD'S LAW (10 Commandments). It is through GOD's LAW that we have a KNOLWEDGE of what SIN is. The sabbath is still to be kept. He came to fulfil what was written of Him in the BOOK OF THE LAW OF ORDINANCES and to END the Mosaic law for remission of SIN and the penalty of SIN in those who BELIEVE. COLOSSIANS 2 is not talking about God’s 10 COMMANDMENTS. NO MORE ORDINANCES WRITTEN IN THE MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT Ceremonial/Levitical/Sacrificial laws and animal sacrifices and FORGIVENESS OF SIN and DELIVERANCE from the PENALTY of SIN through FAITH in CHRIST and the BLOOD of the NEW COVENANT.
     
  9. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    4. THE GREEK WORD MEANINGS OF THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT LINKING THE NEW TESTAMENT BACK TO THE OLD TESTAMENT?

    We have seen from the previous sections; looking at the “CHAPTER CONTEXT” in COLOSSIANS 2:11-14 that the “SUBJECT MATTER” and the “TOPIC OF CONVERSATION” prior to COLOSSIANS 2:16 are the “SHADOW LAWS” from the “MOSAIC BOOK OF THE COVENANT IN “ORDINANCES” (e.g. CIRCUMCISION) that point to JESUS and God’s plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT.

    What is being discussed here is NOT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS for which God’s 4th Commandment SABBATH is a part of. So the next question is;

    “WHAT IS THE GREEK WORD MEANING AND APPLICATION USED HERE FOR SABBATH and the WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT AND APPLICAION?”

    So in this section I would like to discuss the meaning of the GREEK word for “SABBATH” (SABBATON) which is different to the HEBREW Word meaning which provides a different meaning depending on it’s application and can mean;

    1. “the SABBATH (God’s 4th commandment)” or
    2. “ANY DAY OF REST OR REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK” or
    3. “A SEVEN DAY WEEK”

    Depending on the words applcaion within the scriptures, all the word definitions listed above can be applied in singular form or in plural application.

    Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries w/TVM, Strong - G4521

    σάββατον sabbaton Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

    This means ALL the ANNUAL FEAST days that were not the SEVENTH DAY but where no work was to be done are also translated as SABBATON in the Greek.

    Let’s apply this now to COLOSSIANS 2:16 asking the question which definition should be applied here; what is the meaning that COLOSSIANS 2:16 is applying?

    OK lets now look at the "within scripture context" of COLOSSIANS 2:16 linking the ORIGIN of the OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT scriptures that PAUL is referring to.

    COLOSSIANS 2:16 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY [FEASTIVALS], or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAY <plural>:

    PAUL'S within scriptures CONTEXT and use of COLOSSIANS 2:16-17 is in reference to the OLD TESTAMENT scriptures also liked here…..

    EZEKIEL 45:17 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give BURNT OFFERINGS, and MEAT OFFERINGS, and DRINK OFFERINGS, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

    NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual BURN'T OFFERING, and his DRINK OFFERING.

    ISAIAH 1:10-14 [10] Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.[11] To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I AM FULL OF THE BURNT OFFERINGS of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.[12] When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?[13] BRING NO MORE VAIN OBLATIONS; incense is an abomination unto me; THE NEW MOONS AND SABBATHS, THE CALLING OF ASSEMBLIES (annual festivals), I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.[14] Your NEW MOONS and your APPOINTED FEASTS my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

    LEVITICUS 23:4 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

    HOSEA 2:11 [11], I will also cause all her mirth to CEASE, HER [ISRAEL'S] FEAST DAYS, her NEW MOONS, and HER SABBATHS, and all HER [ISRAELS] SOLEMN FEASTS.

    wait for it back to the NEW...

    HEBREWS 9:1-12 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSO, ORDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.... [9] WHICH WAS A FIGURE for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

    HEBREWS 10:1-9
    [1], FOR THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW OF GOOD THINGS TO COME, AND NOT THE VERY IMAGE OF THE THINGS, CAN NEVER WITH THOSE SACRIFICES which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
    [2], For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
    [3], But in those SACRIFICES there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
    [4], For it is not possible that THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND GOATS should take away sins.
    [5], Why when he comes into the world, he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS YOU WOULD NOT BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME:
    [6], IN BURN'T OFFERINGS AND SACRIFICES FOR SIN YOU HAVE HAD NO PLEASURE.
    [7], Then said I, See, I come in the VOLUME OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME, to do your will, O God.
    [8], Above when he said, SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU WOULD NOT, neither had pleasure therein; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW;
    [9], Then said he, See, I come to do your will, O God. He takes away the first, that he may establish the second.

    NOTE; the LAW in reference here is NOT God's 10 Commandments but the law of sin offereings from the SHADOW laws of the MOSAIC BOOK of the LAW *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26 from the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 (Please look at the attached scriptures)

    CONCLUSION: COL 2:16 is not in reference to God's 10 Commandments. They are in reference to the ceremonial laws in ORDINANCES connected to feast days and the annual sabbaths that are directly connected to feasts that can fall on any day of the week and not God's "SEVENTH DAY" weekly Sabbath that is outside of the JEWISH annual festivals that is a part of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20

    The GREEK word meaing and application of SABBATHS; SABBATH DAYS from COLOSSIANS 2:16 as shown in the CHAPTER CONTEXT and WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT is to the application of the GREEK word meaning to “ANY DAY OF REST OR REPOSE FROM SECULAR WORK” which is a reference to the HOLY CONVOCATIONS (calling out to public meetings) and the annual sabbaths in festivals that can fall on any day of the week.

    Next lets look at there "speacial sabbaths connected to the feast days"?
     
  10. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    5. SABBATON (SABBATH DAYS) IN COLOSSIANS 2:16 WHAT IS IT POINTING TO?

    The CONTEXT of LEVITICUS 23 here are the appointed times of the ANNUAL FESTIVALS. These ANNUAL FESTIVALS are once a year events and includes days of HOLY CONVOCATION. A HOLY CONVOCATION in Hebrew means;

    HOLY קדשׁ ; qôdesh From H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstractly sanctity: - consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (X most) holy (X day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.

    CONVOCATION מקרא; miqrâ'; From H7121; something called out, that is, a public meeting (the act, the persons, or the palce); also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading.

    So CONTEXT of LEVITICUS 23 is lising all the days of HOLY CONVOCATION for the ANNUAL FEASTIVALS. That are SACRED PUBLIC MEETINGS for the YEARLY FEAST DAYS.

    God's 4th Commandments is a part of the ANNUAL FEAST days because many FEASTS were longer then 7 days or the FEASTS could start on any day depending on the YEARLY CYCLE.

    This is different to the "special annual sabbath" that are connected directly to the feast days that could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle. So we are not discussing the same thing here.

    God's 4th Commandment which is one of God's 10 commandment that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's 4th commandment is not one of the "special" annual sabbaths strictly linked to the feastivals like those listed in LEVITICUS 23

    These "special" sabbaths linked directly to certain festivals can fall on any day of the week and are only used in the annual Jewish festivals of

    1. Feasts of Trumpets (Lev 23:24) or
    2. Day of Atonement (Lev 23:32 or
    3. Feast of Booths (Lev 23:39)

    Unlike God's 4th commandment SABBATH which is striclty every SEVENTH DAY of the week required outside of the feasts days and are a part of God's 10 Commandments.

    SO dig deeper my brothers and sisters.

    Receive God's WORD and be blessed.
     
  11. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Sure the covenant made with God and the Israelites is indeed everlasting.
    That covenant has Moses and the Levite priests, as its mediators.
    But it is between the Israelites,
    Definitely not with Americans, not Filipinos, not Canadians, not Mexicans, not with Europeans, not with Africans.
    It is between God and the Israelites.
    Even Israelis don't count as Israelites.
    And by the way, no one living today is an Israelite.
    And their salvation is based on their observance of that everlasting covenant.


    upload_2019-11-2_18-9-32.jpeg

    And as a Filipino, I do not have a single drop of Middle Eastern, Semitic, Jewish blood in my veins.
    Now if a person claims to be an Israelite, well I say he has to prove it through DNA examination
    There is nothing in the Bible that automatically makes all people of the world, Israelites
    No one would stop a person if he thinks highly of himself, believing he is an Israelite
    when in fact he isn't. Remember a guy in the 1930s who believed his nation is a pure Aryan race?

    What agreement exist between God and the people today?
    It is the new covenant which Christ Jesus is the mediator.

    From the Bible:


    Hebrews 8 New International Version (NIV)

    Now the main point of what we are saying is this: We do have such a high priest, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, and who serves in the sanctuary, the true tabernacle set up by the Lord, not by a mere human being.

    Every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices, and so it was necessary for this one also to have something to offer. If he were on earth, he would not be a priest, for there are already priests who offer the gifts prescribed by the law. They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

    For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said:

    The days are coming, declares the Lord,
    when I will make a new covenant
    with the people of Israel
    and with the people of Judah.
    It will not be like the covenant
    I made with their ancestors

    when I took them by the hand
    to lead them out of Egypt,
    because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
    and I turned away from them,
    declares the Lord.
    This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
    after that time, declares the Lord.
    I will put my laws in their minds
    and write them on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest.
    For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”

    By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.


    Jeremiah 31:31-34 was fulfilled during the time of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the Lord of the Sabbath
     
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  12. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Your response...
    Well I guess you have have tried to address one line of the post # 5 which is not the OP but to your claims about the sabbath only being to the nation of Israel so even though it is a little off topic happy to address this post although you seem to have ignored the rest of the linked post above that really already addresses this post. Your really only repeating yourself here brother.

    As shown in the previous post that you did not quote in post # 5, God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. ISREAL and JEWS and Gentiles believers in the new covenant are all a part of Gods ISRAEL and this is who the NEW covenant applies to. HEBREWS 8:10-12 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" and again "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *ROMANS 2:28-29. Gentiles believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27. So as you can see here Gods' ISRAEL today are all those who believe and follow God's Word and God's 4th commandment Sabbath is still a "perpetual convenant as shown in Exodus 31:16-17.

    The shodow laws are fulfilled in the new. The earlthy Sanctuary and Levitical priesthood brother was only a pattern and shodow of the Heavenly *HEBREWS 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-28; Hebrews 10:1-18. This is why we are talking a perpetual covenant. The old is fulfilled in the new and is ongoing from the earthly to the heavenly.

    God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word (ongoing perpetual)

    GOD'S ISRAEL ARE ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD (The Church)

    There is no such thing as Jew or Greek anymore. All who believe and follow God's Word are one in Christ. Israel in the OLD COVENANT were those from the seed of Abraham. In the NEW COVENANT, if you are in Christ then you are Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise...

    EPHESIANS 2:11-13 [11], Why remember, that you being in TIME PAST Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

    [12], That AT THAT TIME [in the Past] YOU WERE WITHOUT CHRIST, BEING ALIENS FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF ISRAEL, STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANT OF PROMISE, HAVING NO HOPE, AND WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD: [13], BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS, YOU WHO WERE FAR OFF ARE MADE NEAR BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.

    GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

    God's true ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are not by name only but all those in Christ. Those of the FLESH (sinful human nature) are not Abrahams seed but those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God in Christ are God's ISRAEL...

    ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

    God's ISRAEL are all those in CHRIST that have been given a NEW HEART according to the NEW COVENANT promise...

    ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    In the NEW COVENANT all those in Christ are are God's ISRAEL...

    COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

    ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

    The New Covenant is for God's Israel...

    EZEKIEL 36:26-27 [26], A NEW HEART WILL I GIVE YOU, AND A NEW SPIRIT WILL I PUT WITHIN YOU; AND I WILL TAKE AWAY THE STONY HEART OUT OF YOUR FLESH, AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH. [27], AND I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT WITHIN YOU, AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES AND YOU SHALL KEEP MY JUDGEMENTS AND DO THEM.

    and again...

    JEREMIAH 31:33-34 [33], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS,AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

    Paul proclaims it here...

    HEBREWS 8:10-12 [10], BUT THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, says the LORD, I WILL PUT MY LAW IN THEIR INWARD PARTS, AND WRITE IT IN THEIR HEARTS; and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: [11], And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [12], For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

    The NEW COVENANT is for GOD'S ISRAEL which represent those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God’s WORD.

    If you are not part of GOD'S ISRAEL then you are not a part of the NEW COVENANT (Hebrews 8:10-12).

    ............

    God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. GENTILES are now grafted in. If you are not a part of the God's ISRAEL then you have no part in the NEW COVENANT.

    Now let's look at the meaning of the name that God gave to his people. The name "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" God gave this name to his people and it means that they shall rule with God. Take a look at the following scriptures from REVELATION speaking of God's people.

    REVELATION 1:5-6
    [5], And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. To him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, [6], And HAS MADE US KINGS AND PRIESTS TO GOD AND HIS FATHER; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    and again...

    REVELATION 5:10 And HAVE MADE US TO OUR GOD KINGS AND PRIESTS; AND WE SHALL REIGN ON THE EARTH.

    Peter speaking of God's people says it this way...

    1 PETER 2:9-10
    [9], But you [God's people] are a chosen generation, A ROYAL PRIESTHOOD [KINGS AND PRIESTS], an holy nation, a peculiar people; that you should show forth the praises of him who has called you out of darkness into his marvelous light; [10], Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

    Sound familar? "ISRAEL" ישׂראל; yiśrâ'êl means; "HE WILL RULE WITH GOD" WHY?

    JESUS is our great HIGH PRIEST ministering on our behalf in the HEVENLY SANCTUARY *HEBREWS 4:14. JESUS is the KING of KINGS *REVELATIONS 17:14; 19:16

    HE WILL RULE WITH GOD WHICH IS THE MEANING OF "ISRAEL" is the name given to all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD because JESUS will make them to rule with him as PRIESTS and KINGS.

    Notice also in REVELATION 7:3-8 just before the judgements of God are poured out on the world God's people are sealed with God's Spirit and 144,000 come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

    REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of ISRAEL. [5], Of the tribe of JUDAH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of REUBEN were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of GAD were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of ASHER were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of MANESSAH were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of SIMEONwere sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of LEVI were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of ZEBULON were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of JOSEPH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of BENJAMIN were sealed twelve thousand.

    It seems you are mixing up the the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant with God's eternal laws (10 commandments) in the new.

    Did you have anything to share in relation to the OP now?

    Blessings
     
  13. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Lots and lots of verses.
    It would be nice to have 2 or 3.
    How does it feel like if you have a table full of spaghetti?
    So what tribe of ISRAEL are you?
    Do you consider yourself an Israelite?
    What passport do you carry?
    You really observe the Sabbath?
    Are you willing to kill people who do not observe the Sabbath?
    It is a command to kill such people.
    It is in the Bible.

    Exodus 31:14 New International Version (NIV)
    “‘Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Dave Watchman

    Dave Watchman Member

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    Hello 3rdAngel,

    I'm not SDA, just an independent Sabbatarian.

    I think it's because they don't want to do the Sabbath. They never did. They think that it's too hard. They think that they'll be giving up a day. They never even wanted to do it back in the Old Israel days when the King had to lock the gates of the city during Sabbath.

    "When evening shadows fell on the gates of Jerusalem before the Sabbath, I ordered the doors to be shut and not opened until the Sabbath was over. I stationed some of my own men at the gates so that no load could be brought in on the Sabbath day. - Nehemiah 13:19
    So I think you have an uphill fight on your hands Brother, locking the gates of the city at a time when the composite beast is in charge. I'm, disappointed that you couldn't find more friends here. But no worries. We will just shine a little bit brighter than the rest when we get to New Jerusalem.

    This:

    This is what I think it is. We just KNOW, that Paul CAN NOT be telling the early Church in Colossai NOT to be keeping God's Law. This was around 50AD, not 538 when the Pope was in charge.

    So it HAS to be something else.

    I read it as these early Colossian Christians WERE keeping the Seventh Day Sabbath, and the Holy Feast Days and abstaining from pork. But they were surrounded by others who were not. They were amoungst a people who were claiming a: "deceptive philosophy" in verse 8, "worshiping angels" in verse 18, and a people who had: "lost connection with the head" in verse 19.

    "Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.​

    These people were probably the forerunners to Gnosticism. They had a list of human rules, human commands and teachings: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings.

    The Gnostics were big on denying the flesh from enjoyment, fasting and claiming all matter is evil. So they caused flack to the early Christians when they saw them enjoying themselves in celebration and eating on a Feast Day and resting on the Sabbath.

    Paul is telling these early Christian not to let the people in that region judge them when they ARE keeping the Sabbath and ARE eating on the Feast days.

    Notice also the reference in verse 8:

    "See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces a of this world rather than on Christ.
    What could Paul be talking about?

    Deceptive philosophy?

    Elemental spiritual forces?

    This is specific just to the Christian Church which is surrounded by Gnostics, rather than a go to verse to be used by people who don't want to keep the Sabbath.

    Try a google on "Gnosticism".

    Gnosticism - Wikipedia

    "This divine spark could be liberated by gnosis,
    spiritual knowledge acquired through direct experience.
    Paul is addressing a heresy that the Colossians needed to confront, not about keeping God's Commandments.

    This is not about abolishing God's Commandments, it's about not letting themselves be judged by a group of people who are advocating the worship of angels.

    A group of people who apparently are claiming special knowledge of the elemental spiritual forces of this world, and putting their own human tradition above that of Christ.

    "Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.​

    Peaceful Sabbath.
     
    #14 Dave Watchman, Nov 2, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  15. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Well brother there is a lot of scripture in support of what I am sharing wit hyou. In this post you are only repeating yourself when it has already been addressed in post with scripture in the very post you are quoting from please read post # 12.

    Here is the short version so you can read it. The scriptures posted here to you (not the OP) shows your argument is in error as

    1. God's Israel in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow God's Word as gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. If we are not a part of God's Israel we have no part in the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 and

    2. The wages of sin is still death to those who continue in known unrepentant sin and reject the gift of Gods dear son *Romans 6:23.

    ............

    1a. God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. ISREAL and JEWS and Gentiles believers in the new covenant are all a part of Gods ISRAEL and this is who the NEW covenant applies to. HEBREWS 8:10-12 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" and again "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God *ROMANS 2:28-29. Gentiles believers are now grafted in to God's ISRAEL *Romans 11:13-27.

    ............

    2a. As posted earlier in relation to the death penalty under the civil laws of Israel in the old covenant for God's Sabbath? The same penalty applied for nearly everyone of God's 10 commandments to those who openly broke them.

    Nothing really changes here as the wages of sin is still death to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *Hebrews 10:26-39; Romans 6:23. We are in the new covenant now and vengence is mine says the Lord *ROMANS 12:17-19; REVELATION 22:12. We are not in the old covenant now under the Mosaic civil laws of Israel.

    Under the civil laws of Israel in the old covenant anyone openly breaking nearly anyone of God's 10 Commandments were put to death *Deuteronomy 13:6-18; 1 Sammuel 26:19; Deuteronomy 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; Deuteronomy 7:25-26; Leviticus 24:10-17; Exodus 31:14-15; 35:2; Leviticus 20:9; Deuteronomy21:18-21; Exodus 21:17; Exodus 21:12-14; Leviticus 20; JOHN 8:5; Exodus 21:16; Deuteronomy 19:15-21. That was to teach God's people the wages of SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) is death as it does in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 6:23

    Hope this helps.
     
  16. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone show any one verse that says we should throw out the Old Testament and only follow the new? God says he never changes and his laws never change. God worked six days and made the seventh day holy. Only God can make something holy. People who call themselves Christian want to be so different from the Jews that they change everything just to be different. But God does not change. The seventh day is holy and no human can change it.
     
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  17. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Dave nice to meet you :). Thanks for sharing with us. I have just provided some comments below for your consideration. I appreciate your thoughts and view in trying to keep to the OP here.
    For me brother it does not really matter what we are or are not. I believe God's people are in every church who believe and follow his Word living up to all the knowledge God has revealed to them and by doing so are his people where ever they may be. The scriptures provided here are for all God's people and are only God's Word evaluating 1. THE CHAPTER CONTEXT; 2. THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT; 3. THE GREEK WORD MEANINGS OF THE WITHIN SCRIPTURE CONTEXT and the 4. CONTEXT TO THE REST OF THE SCRIPTURE WITHIN ALL SCRIPTURE of Gods Word showing that Colossians 2 is not in reference to anyone of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment (7th day sabbath) *scriptures provided in post # 6; posts # 7; posts # 8; posts # 9 and posts # 10 linked. God's sheep are all those who hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him *John 10:26-27.
    Thanks Dave, I appreciate your post and believe many things that you share here. For me, he must increase and I must decrease. I only point all to the Word of God because it is there we find the one who loves us that we may love him. I know him and am known by him. All that he shows me I see and must show to all because I am blind. He tells me it is those that say they see that do not see. These are they that have once known him or do not know him. There is only life in the living Word. These are his Words and not my own. Freely I give because freely I have received. I must speak in the light and what I hear preach in the housetops. Many will not hear because they do not know Him. He is the Word of God and those that believe him are those that he has chosen. They follow him because they love him and are loved by him. Many are called but few are chosen brother.
    Yes Dave good points. I also beleve the same as you that some parts Colossians 2 are in reference to those practicing gnosticism. The main focus of this thread though is to the immediate context of Colossians 2:16-17 from Colossians 2:11-17 which is discussing the shadow laws in ordinances from the Mosaic book of the old covenant.
    For me brother I believe all the feast days are shadows pointing to Jesus and the coming of the Messiah as well as God's plan of salvation under the new covenant and God's 2nd coming. Some have been directly fulfilled in JESUS and others not yet fulfilled (day of atonement and the feast of booths). I have some friends in the past that keep the feasts days but for me Colossians 2:11-17 the context is the shadow laws from the Mosaic book of the old covenant which include the new moons, meat and drink offerings and feast days and the annual sabbaths connected to these feasts. I think it is wonderful you keep them in honor of Jesus and I do not judge you and you should not let others do so. We agree that Colossians 2 is in no way talking about any one of God's 10 commandments including God's 4th commandment that in the new covenant give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. That interpretation would be contradicting the rest of God's Word.

    Thanks for sharing brother. I enjoyed reading your post here.
     
    #17 3rdAngel, Nov 2, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
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  18. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Hi lostwanderingsoul nice to meet you here and welcome :)
    You are absolutely correct! In fact in the days of JESUS and the disciples their bible was the "old testament" scriptures. Everything that we have today in the new testament scriptures comes from the old testament and together they make up the Word of God. You have said the truth God does not change. The only difference between the old and new covenants is that in the old covenant God's people looked forward to the coming of the Messiah while in the new covenant we look back. Our salvation according to God's Word is conditional on believing and following what God says. Thanks for sharing brother great post and points.

    God bless
     
  19. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Most people are so brainwashed by the garbage they hear in most churches that they blindly follow whatever they are told. Even Jesus said "keep the commandments" but about 99% of Christians think Jesus did away with the commandments. Maybe we should start our own church based on the actual things Jesus said and not the things people interpret him to have said. I have often asked people if they could show one single verse in the Bible that even suggests that we should honor Sunday instead of Saturday. No one has ever been able to do it but they keep saying it is true because that is all the churches tell them. Good luck to you.
     
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  20. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Well-Known Member

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    Funny that you say that LWS. I was just talking about this in another thread just now. You know that today according to a Christian church consensus there are over 40,000 different church denominations? All professing they have the truth of God's Word.

    So if we do not know What God's truth is to begin with how are we ever going to find it?

    For me though I just see this as a fulfillment of the prophecies fortold in God's Word and by JESUS as one of the signs that take place just prior to the 2nd coming *Matthew 24:24.

    We cannot know or understand God's Word if God is not our teacher and guide. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned *1 Corinthians 2:14 and as the heavens are higher than the earth so are God's way from ours *Isaiah 55:6-9.

    God however promises to be our guide and teacher if we prayerfully ask him to guide us and teach us his word *John 14:26; John 16:13; John 17:17; John 7:17; John 8:31-36; 1 John 2:27 and Hebrews 8:11.

    What your seeing here is a fulfillment of the scriptures that say in the last days there will be many false teachers *Matthre 24:24. That is why this thread is questioning why many churches are teaching us to follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9 and lead us away from the pure Word of God.

    You may be interested in this thread which has only recently been started called..

    Man made traditions from the Church or the Word of God - Who do you believe and follow?

    May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.
     
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