Christians..... you are not the saviors of the world.

[Cooky]

If you look closely at the wording I put in my OP you will find that it's not really directed at the whole of Christianity. It's rather directed at Christianity in general terms of how it goes about spreading its "good word". Bottom line is that this alone often times makes people and groups to do things in ways that do not garner any type of praise or affection with the more egregious ones garnering public and media attention such as with Mr.Chau.

I do firmly however stand by the bullet points that are made that quite frankly encompass an aspect of Christianity of which is in itself unquestionably smug and self-righteous in its own right, for which such a view has been responsible for causing numerous individuals and groups to go out and do the types of things that they do, apparently oblivious to any actual or potential harm that they can, had, or will cause by doing so.

As far as Mr.Chau's death goes, it would be the same thing as putting a gun to your own head and pulling the trigger.

Yes his death is no doubt tragic , and yes it was unnecessary.

And no, he does not deserve sympathy in terms by he intentionally and willifuly made his own choices to go that route himself, with I am assuming full knowledge of the danger that he presented to them, and ended up dying in the way and manner that he did for something so ridiculous as dying for what amounts to an ancient mythological tale.

In my opinion, the spreading of the gospel has been completed. Anyone who does not know, probably doesn't want to know.

 

[Cooky]

Yeah how silly of them to have no knowledge or understanding of how diseases work.

Everyone angry with this isolated tribe assumes that they should know better, but how? On what basis could you actually fault them?

Ignorance is no excuse. The truth is out there, it's just that the tribe rejects it. The tribe rejects everything...

On a side note, these uncontacted people are very interesting to me. For instance, I'm curious how 30,000 years of inbreeding has not caused deformities or other problematic birth defects.

"It’s estimated that there are between just 50 and 150 Sentinelese People, according to the BBC"
An Untouched Tribe Killed the Missionary Trying to Convert Them

 

[Cooky]

If you really look at the way nature operates in general, the amount of time that has passed for which they remained isolated, it would probably make more sense when you can put yourself in the shoes and viewpoint of the tribe living there. When you consider 60000 + years of existence as a indigenous people, it makes you really wonder what transpired over the course of time to put them in the disposition that they are now when it comes to approaching and dealing with outsiders.

That's a good point. Yet at the same time, 60,000 years of doing the same thing must have a lasting effect. I wonder if it's part of who they are now.

...Because that's likely one of the longest traditions ever.

 

[Glaurung]

If you look closely at the wording I put in my OP you will find that it's not really directed at the whole of Christianity. It's rather directed at Christianity in general terms of how it goes about spreading its "good word". Bottom line is that this alone often times makes people and groups to do things in ways that do not garner any type of praise or affection with the more egregious ones garnering public and media attention such as with Mr.Chau.

Using isolated incidents like this to post your tirades about how awful "Christians" are may get you various pats on the back but that doesn't make it fair. Also, if you look beyond the US situation the overall global situation is that Christians are a persecuted minority. One of these global persecutors is officially atheist in doctrine. Yes, the Jehovah's Witness who knocks on your door on Saturday morning may be annoying, but such pales to being rounded up into "reeducation" by a Marxist governments (which will eventually extend to Christians if it hasn't already) or blown up at Easter services in Egypt. Spreading the "good news" is not an exclusively Christian behavior.

I do firmly however stand by the bullet points that are made that quite frankly encompass an aspect of Christianity of which is in itself unquestionably smug and self-righteous in its own right, for which such a view has been responsible for causing numerous individuals and groups to go out and do the types of things that they do, apparently oblivious to any actual or potential harm that they can, had, or will cause by doing so.

If disease is going to wipe out the Sentinelese, it's just as likely going to be a disease contracted from the next Hindu fisherman who gets too close. It's not as if Mr. Chau was the first and only contact they've had with outsiders. Look, I'm not defending him. It was breathtakingly arrogant to think he could convert such an isolated hunter gather tribe known for being aggressive. Heck, to my knowledge these people haven't even mastered fire. So what exactly was the plan is as beyond me as it is you.

As far as Mr.Chau's death goes, it would be the same thing as putting a gun to your own head and pulling the trigger.

No doubt that Mr. Chau was the author of his own death. He's not a victim. Nonetheless, it's almost as some people are gloating over his death which says a lot to me.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

Oh I wouldn't doubt it.

The troubling thing is why a very kind and good person would never consider the fact that his very presence could pose extreme danger and death to another human being.

Not to mention his personal willingness to circumvent laws of the land even with full knowledge of the biblical principles that governments were instituted by God and one should obey governments.

It kind of diminishes of what exactly good and kind is supposed to mean.

Probably because of his blind faith. He may have believed that something greater than himself would protect him. But reality will always trump faith.

 

[Mister Emu]

God bless John Chau. He put his life in mortal danger in the name of God. A modern shining example of Christian dedication and love for all people.

On what basis could you actually fault them?

It doesn't take high thought or complex and developed philosophy to not be murderous savages; I fully fault them on that basis.

Further, if they were not murderous savages, they would be capable of receiving the fruits of millennia of advancement that would allow them to make more informed decisions on their tribal direction.

 

[Father Heathen]

Ignorance is no excuse. The truth is out there, it's just that the tribe rejects it. The tribe rejects everything...

Sure it is. What other reaction could you realistically expect? Let's be real. Let's say that they had inexplicably lowered their guard and simply allowed some strange man to wonder into their territory, how was he going to teach them the gospel despite the language barrier? Via a game of charades?

On a side note, these uncontacted people are very interesting to me. For instance, I'm curious how 30,000 years of inbreeding has not caused deformities or other problematic birth defects.

It may very well have.

 

[Father Heathen]

God bless John Chau. He put his life in mortal danger in the name of God. A modern shining example of Christian dedication and love for all people.

Historically, it tends not to end well for indigenous people when contacted by Christians.

It doesn't take high thought or complex and developed philosophy to not be murderous savages; I fully fault them on that basis.

I thought conservatives were all about defending oneself, one's family, and one's territory. They had no way of knowing his intentions. They were likely frightened and saw him as a potential threat.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Probably because of his blind faith. He may have believed that something greater than himself would protect him. But reality will always trump faith.

That's what woke me up from the religious stupor I used to be in. It does cause me to wonder what his last thoughts were, if any.

Either way I'm sure reality struck him as hard as the arrows did. It's a hell of a way to learn the truth of the matter.

From what they disclosed of his personal writings at the time, I think he over romanticized this particular "adventure" that he was on coupled with that element of thrill-seeking and putting that coveted notch under your belt.

 

[Glaurung]

Historically, it tends not to end well for indigenous people when contacted by Christians.

Historically, land belonged to those with the will and means to take it. The new world wasn't conquered and colonized because of Christianity. It was conquered and colonized by Christians because Christians were the first to develop transatlantic transport. Eurasian conquest of the new world was a technological inevitability, not a defect of Christianity.

 

[Mister Emu]

I thought conservatives were all about defending oneself, one's family, and one's territory.

Meanwhile, I thought liberals were against cultures that systematically murder those different from them.

They had no way of knowing his intentions.

If they weren't murderous savages we could learn to communicate with each other.

 

[Shiranui117]

Givin the recent threads regarding John Chau's willful disregard for laws that had protected the safety and health concerns of the Setinelese nation and its people for a considerable time.

This is what has been going on since his death.

First, a look at John's stupidity and his spirit of disregard in spite of warnings and concerns that I'm reasonably sure were given to him prior to all this, and the consequences as what has come about from all this so far....

Seven people arrested for helping missionary John Chau before his death

A number of Christians also have the sheer gall to demand this after the fact....

Christian group invites ridicule with demand of murder charges against Sentinelese - Times of India


I think it's time to send a message and reminder to Christians and any other religion that follows a similar path.

In light of recent events surrounding Chau's actions, basically the message needs to be reaffirmed to (hopefully) get it through a number of Christians heads that....

POINT

* You are not the saviors of the world.

*You are not the salt of the earth.

*You are not a beacon of light into the darkness.

I don't know what it takes to drive the message home. Maybe it will take the modern age deaths of an entire group of an ancient indigenous people spanning tens of thousands of years for starters who simply want to be left alone. God forbid. Right?

1: What Jesus calls us to be vs. what we actually are is something I'm happy to discuss, but I'mma just leave you with your opinion.
2: Literally every single Christian I've talked to about this issue agrees that the guy was an absolute idiot who got exactly what he should have expected to happen. So I really don't get why you think we all think like the fundies you linked to in that article. Maybe you should actually talk to us and get to know our thoughts and opinions on things before you go lumping us in with some insignificant fringe group?

 

[Shiranui117]

The missionary was of course stupid to jump into a tank full of piranhas and expect to come out. But this doesn't change the fact that the natives inhabiting the island are paranoid savages. They have been known to shoot at anyone who enters their island, for any reason. Why they are given special protections is beyond my understanding.

Given that the last two times people tried contacting them, it ended with several of their tribal elders basically kidnapped and taken to England, followed by an accidental outbreak of disease on the island that these people had absolutely no immunity to, and the fact that they see people speeding across the water in these weird boats made out of unknown hard substances that make lots of noise and don't even need oars to move, along with the occasional loud flying thing that could very well be a dragon or some sort of malevolent entity, on top of all these strange people not understanding a word of what we're trying to tell them or vice-versa, yeah, I'd be kinda done too.

A bit harsh in your judgement here, no? I don't think the actions of the late Mr. Chau speak for all Christians.

Sorry, but whenever and article begins with, "A US fundamentalist Christian group..." nothing that follows really surprises me. And I think it would take a fundie to venture illegally onto a remote tribal island and proselytize Christianity to the natives.

How can you proselytize when you don't know the language of the people you're trying to preach to? And I'm 99.99% sure this guy didn't have the Holy Spirit enabling him to speak their language.

 

[Shiranui117]

Smallpox doesn't exist anymore, bud.

It sure did when the Europeans colonized Native America. 90% of the native population died. Entire civilizations collapses due to whooping cough, smallpox, measles, scarlet fever, the plague, you name it.

 

[Shiranui117]

What kind of sick, demented culture assassinates all people not within their group? These people are worse than the blood thirsty Aztecs. Their culture is pure trash.

The kind of people who have had prior experiences with Europeans, which resulted in several of their tribal elders basically being kidnapped and dying en route to Europe, and outbreaks of disease on their island? Plus the fact that they speak a language that nobody else on the planet knows because they've been cut off from the outside world for about 60,000 years?

 

[Father Heathen]

Meanwhile, I thought liberals were against cultures that systematically murder those different from them.

Yes, primitives shooting arrows at some random dumdum encroaching upon their island is "systematic murder". If they were leaving their island to randomly attack people unprovoked then you might've had a point.

If they weren't murderous savages we could learn to communicate with each other.

Of course communication is easier when people are less hostile, but we already knew that they were hostile, so the result shouldn't have came as a surprise.

 

[Truly Enlightened]

That's what woke me up from the religious stupor I used to be in. It does cause me to wonder what his last thoughts were, if any.

Either way I'm sure reality struck him as hard as the arrows did. It's a hell of a way to learn the truth of the matter.

From what they disclosed of his personal writings at the time, I think he over romanticized this particular "adventure" that he was on coupled with that element of thrill-seeking and putting that coveted notch under your belt.

Not sure what you mean by, "putting that coveted notch under your belt". But I am certainly not being insensitive. I think that it is a sad, and a tragic waste of human resources. I think that it may have been his faith, that caused him to ignore all the warning advice and history. He may have really believe, that he would be protected by something greater than himself. Just how many children have met their fate, because their parents believed that they were the Devil, or needed to go to heaven? Just how many adults have met their fate, because they believed that death was not the end, but the beginning of something else? And, just how many people live their lives only in the preparation for their death? To me it is just truly sad. Here is another human who puts his belief to the test. What do you think his final outcome will be?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The idea has been around for a long time, but as with any history, whether or not it's reliable, I don't know. I don't think anyone does. Here's a short paper on it. http://www.historynet.com/smallpox-in-the-blankets.htm

It's certainly reliable for Canada, as evidenced by letters between General Amherst and his officers:

One of the most infamous and well documented issues during Pontiac's War was the use of biological warfare against the Native Americans. The suggestion was posed by Amherst himself in letters to Colonel Henry Bouquet.[24] Amherst, having learned that smallpox had broken out among the garrison at Fort Pitt, and after learning of the loss of his forts at Venango, Le Boeuf and Presqu'Isle, wrote to Colonel Bouquet:[25]

"Could it not be contrived to send the small pox among the disaffected tribes of Indians? We must on this occasion use every stratagem in our power to reduce them."
Bouquet, who was already marching to relieve Fort Pitt, agreed with this suggestion in a postscript when he responded to Amherst just days later on 13 July 1763:[1]

"P.S. I will try to inocculate [sic] the Indians by means of Blankets that may fall in their hands, taking care however not to get the disease myself. As it is pity to oppose good men against them, I wish we could make use of the Spaniard's Method, and hunt them with English Dogs. Supported by Rangers, and some Light Horse, who would I think effectively extirpate or remove that Vermine."
In response, also in a postscript, Amherst replied:[1]

"P.S. You will Do well to try to Innoculate [sic] the Indians by means of Blankets, as well as to try Every other method that can serve to Extirpate this Execrable Race. I should be very glad your Scheme for Hunting them Down by Dogs could take Effect, but England is at too great a Distance to think of that at present."
Historians Elizabeth Fenn and Benedict Kiernan have shown, "Fort Pitt had anticipated these orders. Reporting on parleys with Delaware chiefs on June 24, a trader [William Trent] wrote: '[We] gave them two Blankets and an Handkerchief out of the Small Pox Hospital. I hope it will have the desired effect.'

Jeffery Amherst, 1st Baron Amherst - Wikipedia

 

[Jumi]

*You are not a bacon of light into the darkness.

I must've read too many of @Revoltingest posts.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

What kind of sick, demented culture assassinates all people not within their group? These people are worse than the blood thirsty Aztecs. Their culture is pure trash.

I posted "funny" because there is no "Irony" icon...

The irony of the above post, considering the religion of the poster...