Christians..... you are not the saviors of the world.

[Sunstone]

Where do you get this idea?

Probably from history books. That's where I heard of it.

 

[Sunstone]

Well, I won't comment on that, but I will say that a primitive, backwards, and barbaric tribe of people who isolate themselves from the civilized world and attack anyone who enters their area will most likely not be favored by natural selection for long.

Apparently, the natives have been on that island for 60,000 years. Natural selection sure is taking its time eliminating them.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Because the positives, such that they are, could have easily occurred without the far greater negatives

Agreed. Although it is impossible to make new laws that ban barbaric practices without first subduing the people who engage in those practices. But I agree that it would have been possible to end these practices without so much killing on the part of European nations. I'm not hand waving hte negatives. I just think that the positives are often ignored. Native cultures are often presented as being peaceful, innocent people who would never hurt anyone. This is often very inaccurate.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Apparently, the natives have been on that island for 60,000 years. Natural selection sure is taking its time eliminating them.

You do understand that 60,000 years is the blink of an eye in geological time, right?

 

[Sunstone]

You do understand that 60,000 years is the blink of an eye in geological time, right?

You do understand there's a difference between geological and evolutionary time, don't you?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

You do understand there's a difference between geological and evolutionary time, don't you?

yup. and 60K yrs is also very short in terms of evolutionary time.

 

[Sunstone]

yup. and 60K yrs is also very short in terms of evolutionary time.

Count the number of species that have gone extinct within the past 10,000 or so years, and then get back to me. If the Islanders were going to go extinct due to natural selection, they sure are taking their time.

 

[Cooky]

Count the number of species that have gone extinct within the past 10,000 or so years, and then get back to me. If the Islanders were going to go extinct due to natural selection, they sure are taking their time.

What's special about the Setinelese people is that they have wild sex orgies on the beach. This is a fact! And I'm pretty sure they're not using protection.

The full story of the sex-crazed tribe cut off from the world for 30,000 years | Daily Mail Online
they have feasted on wild pig, clams, berries and honey, engaged in energetic communal sex sessions on the beach and repelled pretty much every visitor (well-meaning or threatening) with a flurry of poison arrows and razor sharp machetes.

So it wasn’t such a surprise last weekend when John Allen Chau, a 26-year-old American Christian missionary-cum-thrill-seeking explorer who visited the island was felled by a poison arrow and then dragged round the white sand beaches by a piece of twine until he was dead.

 

[Cooky]

I'd like to learn more about the nature of these sex orgies.

 

[sealchan]

The missionary was of course stupid to jump into a tank full of piranhas and expect to come out. But this doesn't change the fact that the natives inhabiting the island are paranoid savages. They have been known to shoot at anyone who enters their island, for any reason. Why they are given special protections is beyond my understanding.

Many tribes in the US were decimated by the sharing of material goods of Europeans wirh their unknown germs and diseases. All it took were some blankets to transmit diseases that killed native Americans. If I were advising those Sentinelese to attack on sight unless approached in a sanitized full body suit in an agreed upon manner.

 

[Glaurung]

I'm really getting tired of the smug, self-righteous anti-Christianity as exhibited by the OP. On this forum and others.

Yes, the conceit of this one particular individual is easy to acknowledge. But neither he or his particular form of Christianity is at all representative of the vast majority of Christians worldwide. (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Mainline Protestant, ect). Using this incident to denounce Christians as a whole is as fallacious as using the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church to do the same.

Secondly, as idiotic as this man's actions were, he's still a human being who died a tragic and unnecessary death. If you're temped to gloat over the "stupid Christian's" death then frankly you ought to be the last to lecture anyone about hatred and bigotry.

 

[Cooky]

I'm really getting tired of the smug, self-righteous anti-Christianity as exhibited by the OP.On this forum and others.

Yes, the conceit of this one particular individual is easy to acknowledge. But neither he or his particular form of Christianity is at all representative of the vast majority of Christians worldwide. (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Mainline Protestant, ect). Using this incident to denounce Christians as a whole is as fallacious as using the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church to do the same.

Secondly, as idiotic as this man's actions were, he's still a human being who died a tragic and unnecessary death. Gloating over his death as if he "deserved" it is despicable.

It's been said that he was a very kind and good person.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm really getting tired of the smug, self-righteous anti-Christianity as exhibited by the OP. On this forum and others.

Yes, the conceit of this one particular individual is easy to acknowledge. But neither he or his particular form of Christianity is at all representative of the vast majority of Christians worldwide. (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Mainline Protestant, ect). Using this incident to denounce Christians as a whole is as fallacious as using the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church to do the same.

Secondly, as idiotic as this man's actions were, he's still a human being who died a tragic and unnecessary death. If you're temped to gloat over "stupid Christian's" death then frankly you're the last to lecture anyone about hatred and bigotry.

Unfortunately, it's the nutcases that make the news.

 

[Twilight Hue]

.... Native cultures are often presented as being peaceful, innocent people who would never hurt anyone. This is often very inaccurate.

There is no doubt warfare was prevalent among the nations, but there also were Pow Wows established, where they would iron out their differences and set boundaries with a fair degree of respect and honor.

The thing is indigenous nations were for the far greater part, relatively peaceful and had kept their word as a result so conflicts, when they did happen, were not that common place overall.


A good example I think would be the well-known pressures put on the Crow from Ojibwe and Cree Nations (The Iron Confederacy) and later Cheyenne and Lakota initiating hostilities against the Crow and offers an insight as to a reason why the Crows had sided with General Custer as an example.

But if you notice the worst of it was after the Europeans arrival which apparently pretty much screwed up everything.

I would think that most if not all the nations got along prior to the Europeans arrival, with some less severe exceptions like stealing another nations horses for example admist other infractions, was far better than we might think in terms of outright hostility waged against one another.

 

[Cooky]

Unfortunately, it's the nutcases that make the news.

I'm not sure who's nuttier -the guy or the tribe.

<EDIT> I'm going to go with the tribe actually, on account of the violent penis shaking, the beach orgies and the poisoned tip arrows. Also, it's been said that they cannibalize intruders... That's just plain disgusting.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's been said that he was a very kind and good person.

Oh I wouldn't doubt it.

The troubling thing is why a very kind and good person would never consider the fact that his very presence could pose extreme danger and death to another human being.

Not to mention his personal willingness to circumvent laws of the land even with full knowledge of the biblical principles that governments were instituted by God and one should obey governments.

It kind of diminishes of what exactly good and kind is supposed to mean.

 

[Cooky]

Oh I wouldn't doubt it.

The troubling thing is why a very kind and good person would never consider the fact that his very presence could pose extreme danger and death to another human being.

Not to mention his personal willingness to circumvent laws of the land even with full knowledge of the biblical principles that governments were instituted by God and one should obey governments.

It kind of diminishes of what exactly good and kind is supposed to mean.

With careful consideration, I think it is possible to cautiously confront the tribesmen without passing on germs. However... Having decided to murder him and handling his body by tying twine around his ankles to drag him around, and whatever else they did, they may very well have done themselves in.

That would be their fault.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'm really getting tired of the smug, self-righteous anti-Christianity as exhibited by the OP. On this forum and others.

Yes, the conceit of this one particular individual is easy to acknowledge. But neither he or his particular form of Christianity is at all representative of the vast majority of Christians worldwide. (Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Mainline Protestant, ect). Using this incident to denounce Christians as a whole is as fallacious as using the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church to do the same.

Secondly, as idiotic as this man's actions were, he's still a human being who died a tragic and unnecessary death. If you're temped to gloat over "stupid Christian's" death then frankly you're the last to lecture anyone about hatred and bigotry.

If you look closely at the wording I put in my OP you will find that it's not really directed at the whole of Christianity. It's rather directed at Christianity in general terms of how it goes about spreading its "good word". Bottom line is that this alone often times makes people and groups to do things in ways that do not garner any type of praise or affection with the more egregious ones garnering public and media attention such as with Mr.Chau.

I do firmly however stand by the bullet points that are made that quite frankly encompass an aspect of Christianity of which is in itself unquestionably smug and self-righteous in its own right, for which such a view has been responsible for causing numerous individuals and groups to go out and do the types of things that they do, apparently oblivious to any actual or potential harm that they can, had, or will cause by doing so.

As far as Mr.Chau's death goes, it would be the same thing as putting a gun to your own head and pulling the trigger.

Yes his death is no doubt tragic , and yes it was unnecessary.

And no, he does not deserve sympathy in terms by he intentionally and willifuly made his own choices to go that route himself, with I am assuming full knowledge of the danger that he presented to them, and ended up dying in the way and manner that he did for something so ridiculous as dying for what amounts to an ancient mythological tale.

 

[Father Heathen]

With careful consideration, I think it is possible to cautiously confront the tribesmen without passing on germs. However... Having decided to murder him and handling his body by tying twine around his ankles to drag him around, and whatever else they did, they may very well have done themselves in.

That would be their fault.

Yeah how silly of them to have no knowledge or understanding of how diseases work.

Everyone angry with this isolated tribe assumes that they should know better, but how? On what basis could you actually fault them?

 

[Twilight Hue]

With careful consideration, I think it is possible to cautiously confront the tribesmen without passing on germs. However... Having decided to murder him and handling his body by tying twine around his ankles to drag him around, and whatever else they did, they may very well have done themselves in.

That would be their fault.

If you really look at the way nature operates in general, the amount of time that has passed for which they remained isolated, it would probably make more sense when you can put yourself in the shoes and viewpoint of the tribe living there. When you consider 60000 + years of existence as a indigenous people, it makes you really wonder what transpired over the course of time to put them in the disposition that they are now when it comes to approaching and dealing with outsiders.