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Featured Christians. Heaven and hell

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Jan 11, 2021.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Are you having a rough day?

    I've always had high respect of your opinions for years even though I strongly disagree with majority of them.

    One thing is... Online we have enough time to think of what we want to say, get coffee, and come back calmed. When negativity comes by knee jerk reactions, that's normal. Human.

    But if you have time to articulate sarcasm and insults, to put it bluntly, it shows more your character. I'm sure you're not like this in person when there are communication issues (I hope).

    Internet doesn't give any. one. The right to be rude if he or she doesn't do the same in person.

    But, yes. I do read everyone's posts. Whether you believe me is one thing but don't bite my head off for it. Opinions aren't facts.
     
  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    You're back for more...?

    My goodness, if I wanted to "bite your head off" I'd be a lot stronger in my tone than that. You are talking with an Aussie, so remember that 'culturally' we are poles apart. Your sensitivities are not my sensitivities. Australia is basically a secular nation, not religious at all and not bound by the same sensitivities that could lead to litigation in some countries because "I was offended". [​IMG] We are a lot more direct in our speech than you are, so please remember that. If I am to respect your culture, then surely you can respect mine? Why is this all about you?

    You see, I gave you MY disclaimer......apparently mine didn't work for you, like yours didn't work for me......sorry about that. I guess I'm just sick of the same questions a hundred times when you never seem to comprehend anything I say.....so I'll say no more about it now, and avoid your posts in the future. That will fix everything. [​IMG]
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    What does the term "mansion" mean in John 14:2?

    by Matt Slick

    John 14:2 says in the King James Version, "In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." In the NASB it says, "In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you." The word for "mansion" is μονή, monay. It means a dwelling, an abode.

    Jesus is not telling us that heaven has compartments or that we will have little places in which to live. In the ancient culture, a father's house was where the extended family lived. Rooms were often added on as the family grew through birth and marriage. What Jesus was doing was using the present day illustration of a loving, tight, family community. So, Christ is saying that He is preparing a place for us in heaven where we will dwell with God in close communion with Him and that there is room in heaven for all whom God calls to salvation.

    Please note that some commentators have alluded to the "mansions" as our future resurrected bodies that we will possess at the resurrection and accompanying our entrance into heaven. This seems possible, but the context of the verses does not necessitate that opinion.

    What does the term "mansion" mean in John 14:2 in the KJV? | carm.org
     
  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    No atheist likes my evidence yet no atheist has ever been able to tell me what constitutes “good evidence.” I could write this in my sleep.
    What is of substance is a subjective call.
    No, Baha’u’llah made no such assumptions. I have no idea where you got this idea. Baha’u’llah was not trying to convince anyone of anything. People become convinced if they look at the evidence and see it as good evidence. Obviously not all people do.
    You can appeal to God for a change but God will only change what He chooses to change. The irony is that does not matter if you believe in a God who is in charge or not, you are still in the same situation with circumstances beyond your control…
    You simply MUST accept any and all circumstances you or your loved ones, or the entire world.
    You do not have to accept it; you do not even believe in God, so why would you? For most of my life, as a believer, I refused to accept that God was in charge, but I finally gave up because I knew I had very little control over my circumstances and I finally realized why… It was then that my life began to turn around because I stopped trying to control everything. I still do what I need to do because God is not going to do it, but I realize it might not turn out as I want it to in spite of all my actions. I am facing a lot of those circumstances right now.

    The upshot is that one can deny reality but it will still be reality, kind of like Trump saying the election was stolen from him…. Eventually reality comes back to hit him in the face. So if there is a God who is in charge, denying it will only work as long as one can deny it.
     
    #124 Trailblazer, Jan 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  5. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    To whom it may apply...
    "Let your utterance be always with graciousness, seasoned...." Colossians 4:6
     
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  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Are you sure?
    Romans 5:12
     
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  7. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Why the hostility?

    If a newbie did what you're doing now they'd be cited long time ago.

    If you don't like to respect people, it's best not to be on RF because everyone is different and if you have no patience to talk with people all around the world, this forum just isn't the one for you.

    I just feel my not agreeing with you and asking clarification questions frustrates you. But if you don't want to take into account how I read posts, that's on you.

    Do what you need to do to ignore me but I had no issues with you personally. But now that you've insulted me many times I'm left to think this is part of your character and a nasty part that I've never really encounters from one of Jehovah's witnesses. At least in person. Not a good rep for jesus.
     
    #127 Unveiled Artist, Jan 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  8. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    And John 14:3 says Jesus is coming back to gather us to him so we can be with him. And where will he be when he comes back? On earth, not heaven. So he will gather us to be with him on earth. There is no verse that says we will go to heaven.
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

    When Jesus said “I will come again” He was not referring to His physical body coming again. Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world: (John 14:19, John 17:4, John 17:11).

    Since Jesus said He was no more in the world and the world would see Him no more we know that when He said "and receive you unto myself" He was not talking about His physical body, but rather He was referring to His spirit.

    I believe that the spirit of Jesus did come again, when Christ returned. Jesus promised not to leave us comfortless and then He said He would send the Comforter. The Comforter and that refers to the person who would be the return of Christ. So when Jesus said I will come again, He meant He would send His spirit in the person of the Comforter who would do what it says in John 14:26.

    18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
    19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
    20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
    25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
    26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
    27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.
    28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
    29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.


    "and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” is referring to heaven, not earth, because Jesus was going to heaven to prepare a place in heaven, not on earth. Jesus was preparing a place in heaven so they could be with him in heaven.

    John 14:3 is one of the most misunderstood verses in the New Testament so it is no wonder the Bible commentaries do not agree on what it means.
     
    #129 Trailblazer, Jan 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find biblical hell is the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead (John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
    Yes, because of Adam we are ' separated ', so to speak, because we inherited human imperfection from fallen father Adam.
    Remember: John 3:13 because No one who died before Jesus was offered heavenly life but through Jesus an earthly physical resurrection.
    Because of Jesus a resurrection back to happy-and-healthy physical life will be possible during Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth. - Acts 24:15
    This means: children can be resurrected with parents and the opportunity to gain 'everlasting life on Earth' as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.
    Since DEATH stamps the total price tag of sin as Paid In Full, then dead parents can have a resurrection which includes their dead kids.- Romans 6:23,7
    Only God knows the point of No repenting, No reforming this is why Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be: destroyed forever - Psalms 104:35
    Un-repenting wicked people will Not be part of the humble meek who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised - Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11
    So, at the soon coming ' time of separating ' on Earth for living people, the figurative ' goats ' will Not have salvation - Matthew 25:31-33.
    We are all free to act responsibly toward God to choose to be a figurative ' sheep or goat '.
    - www.jw.org
     
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  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    If we continue reading down to John 14:19 it does inform us that the world will see Jesus No more.
    Originally, No one was called to Heaven, but to gain 'everlasting life' right here on a beautiful paradisical Earth as Eden was a sample.
    We don't have to see Jesus in order for Jesus to be here to govern over Earth, govern with people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18
    Those called to holy ones (saints) will reign with Christ according to Revelation 20:6. They have that first or earlier resurrection.
    (Revelation 20:4) Their thrones are in Heaven, just as Jesus' throne is located in Heaven - Revelation 3:21.
     
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  12. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Do you believe people can be seperated from god for eternity?

    The nature of the word hell is irrelevant as the context is seperation from god. I'm not familiar with everyone's opinion of what he'll means noneless Paul and John's.
     
  13. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. What happens after that?
     
  14. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    If someone you know dies, could you say that person was separated from you forever? You can never see or hear or touch him again. Not because he moved to another city but because he is dead.
     
  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Their body die, yes, but not their energies.

    I'm not sure what youre getting at.
     
    #135 Unveiled Artist, Jan 16, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  16. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus and the Father will be in New Jerusalem and New Jerusalem is to come down to earth out of heaven.

    The scriptures tell us in very plain language that every eye will see Jesus.
    Jesus says that the world will see Him no more because He was finishing His work on earth and going back to heaven. We don't see Him at the moment.
    I could say the same thing when I quit a job, that my work there is finished and I am going away and they won't see me any more, but this does not mean they won't see me at the resurrection,,,,,,,,,,,,,and Jesus did not mean that they won't see Him when He returns. In fact He said that everyone would see Him when He returns.
    You have to twist that around and say it means that every "eye of faith" will see Him. What?
    The Watchtower does similar things with other verses by rejecting the plain ones and making up strange things about the other. eg. Jesus said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive and because the Watchtower does not agree with that they have to say "...............alive in the memory of God". What the? This is an interesting way to deny plain verses in a way that makes it look, to the faithful JWs, like they are not being denied.
     
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  17. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    If the two of you Christians are not adequate proof, there will never be better proof of what I have been saying for eons of time....

    The Bible can be made to say anything you want it to say so you can believe what you want to believe.
    The obvious logical problem is that all the Christians are reading the same text so how can you all be right, and if you are not all right, who is to day which one of you is right, and how so we know any one of you is right in your interpretations.

    Only if Jesus actually showed up the way you believe he will show up could it be proven that you were correct, but I wouldn't hold my breath while I wait if I were you. Apparently Jesus got caught up in the thick clouds.
     
  18. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    I never heard of "energies" in a religious sense. Many people believe that the "soul" never dies. They it is just "separated from God". I am saying that this is not what the Bible teaches.
     
  19. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Yeah. I wasn't taught about a soul. The closest I came after reading is ones identity and sense of self existing apart from the physical body. I don't know if it's a cultural thing, but I do believe you can feel/experience our loved ones by signs, some people have dreams though I've not had them, and prayer or meditation. I've had a direct experience years ago after my grandmother passed.

    With that, I've always believed people's energies or maybe their aura (lack of better words) are attached to what they've owned. Mother and I set food out because of that connection. She's seen spirits but I havent.

    Biblically, it would be called nemocracy. Though I don't agree that one talks to a dead spirit and don't agree just because one is spirit it means they're demons or so have you.

    Closest I can think of is when you experience someone is behind you but dont see them. The heat from their body and so forth made your body sense them before your mind caught up. Physiologically, it has a cause. I believe that cause is in a spiritual sense not just physiological.

    (Thank you for not "demonizing" my comment)
     
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  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Because the Bible teaches that the wicked are to be destroyed forever, then yes, destroyed people are separated from God forever - Psalms 92:7; 104:35
    The Bible also teaches there is an unforgivable sin. Since it is the wicked who end up committing that sin (Matthew 12:32) they are separated from God.
    Separated from life, never to see life ever again, but to be gone forever and ever with No hope of ever returning to life.
    In other words, wicked people will become extinct, and never see the 'light of day' ever again.
     
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