Christians. Heaven and hell

[URAVIP2ME]

Except that man also has a spirit. This spirit has the potential to gain eternal life if the person is willing to follow God's rules.Otherwise, it also dies.

I find a high-spirited horse has spirit.
I find a pep rally is designed to create school spirit.
So, yes man has a spirit, the spirit of life while alive.
At death man's spirit (it) goes back to God. - Ecclesiastes 12:7 B (it)
Like a foreclosed house it does Not move or go anywhere but it is simply ' returned ' back to hands of the owner.
So, man's spirit (it) is in God's safe hands until 'Resurrection Day' ( meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years )

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I was specifically talking if the verses about wickedness. There's no need to quote verses unless it's a theological conversation or your comments have higher emphases than the verses.
Also, you can just post John 3:16 (example) without the verse itself. It looks clogged. That way I'm not fishing for your comments and I have context when I look them up on biblehub. RF translation and kjv I can't understand well enough.
But the first set of verses on seperation from god, people being distroyed, wickedness, etc how does that help you grow in Christ?
Also. Stick to one set of verses. If each post has a new set of verses it looks like a diversion without comments to add.

First, please notice I am Not posting verses but merely as to where there is reference to my comments .

Because Earth is created for upright righteous people, then those who choose to be wicked would harm the upright, the righteous ones.
The wicked do Not make the world safe for anyone, Earth was created to be a safe place to live.
So, trusting that Christ reads hearts then he knows when a person has reached the point of being beyond repenting, beyond reform.
That alone helps a person feel safe and secure knowing that God will have Jesus step in to take action against the wicked.
Leaving the Earth safe and secure for the upright, righteous people to inherit the Earth forever ever and ever.

 

[BilliardsBall]

you did not really read , Romans 5:12 now did ya?

That's not an answer, at all:

Romans 5:12 - "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned".

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Adam brought a fallen condition to people, which fallen condition is they cannot eat from the removed tree of life and live eternally, they DIE)

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (In life and after death, I am judged for MY SIN, not ADAM's)

 

[BilliardsBall]

"Through one man...."

How do you explain the Bible telling us that the immediate generations of Adam's offspring, lived such long lives?
They inherited less imperfect traits from A & E, than we have. They (Seth, Methuselah, Noah) were closer to A & E genetically, closer to their perfection, than we are.

Take care, my cousin.

What does living long lives (or short lives) have to do with sin? There is only somewhat of a correlation there, for example, addicts who die of overdosing or lung disease or etc.

The Bible explains in numerous places that humans get confused when they see wicked people prosper and die in old age on their beds, for example, not understanding that judgment comes from some while alive, others after death.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The ' one' man of Romans 5:12,17,19 is Adam. Romans 3:23 says ALL have sinned
Any comments regarding Romans 5:14 ___________________

I agree. All have sinned. 5:14 verifies further that "original inherited sin" is a false doctrine.

 

[Muffled]

Children as well?

I believe they will if they have received Jesus as Lord and Savior in a previous life.

 

[Muffled]

This is PARTLY correct. There are TWO hells. The first is the grave where ALL men go at death. The second is the lake of fire where the wicked will be destroyed ( burned up) not tortured forever. This is the second death that is the punishment for sin.

I believe there are two hells because of mistranslation. A word for grave should be translated as grave not Hell.

I believe it is true that bodies are incinerated in a fire but fire can't do anything to a spirit except cause it intellectual distress.

 

[Muffled]

If a child is raised with christian parent (not indoctrinated in religion), what is his sin before the age of reason?

Only Christians are accountable. A child knows what's right or wrong by scripture through upbringing and/or environment influences. He only sins when he is taught the criteria of goodness. Many children do not have this. If sins are actions against god, without intent what is his sin?

(Kind of like judging a person based on killing another in self defense)

I believe Jesus forgave the Pharisees because they didn't know what they were doing. That means what they were doing was a sin that had to be forgiven. It is the same with a child.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I believe there are two hells because of mistranslation. A word for grave should be translated as grave not Hell.

I believe it is true that bodies are incinerated in a fire but fire can't do anything to a spirit except cause it intellectual distress.

Mathew 10:28 says that both body and souls can be DESTROYED. I believe soul is a mistranslation that should sy spirit.

 

[Brian2]

Mathew 10:28 says that both body and souls can be DESTROYED. I believe soul is a mistranslation that should sy spirit.

It says soul, and means the spirit part of man that survives the death of the body. When the body dies the totality of man is his spirit, which is still alive and is the essence of the man and so is called the soul. This soul can re-enter the person to revive him and then the totality of the person is spirit and body and that totality is then called the soul. (1Kings 17:21,22)

 

[Brian2]

I find a high-spirited horse has spirit.
I find a pep rally is designed to create school spirit.
So, yes man has a spirit, the spirit of life while alive.
At death man's spirit (it) goes back to God. - Ecclesiastes 12:7 B (it)
Like a foreclosed house it does Not move or go anywhere but it is simply ' returned ' back to hands of the owner.
So, man's spirit (it) is in God's safe hands until 'Resurrection Day' ( meaning Jesus' Millennium-Long Day of governing over Earth for a thousand years )

How is it that the spirit of a man knows the mind of the man? (see 1Cor 2:10,11)
How is it that the soul of a man lives on after the death of the body? (Matt 10:28)
Do you think that the spirit of a man, which is our life and gives our body life and supplies consciousness to the material body of ours and which knows our mind, might be held in save keeping by God so that the same man might be resurrected and not just a copy of the man, ie a new body with the memories of the man?
Can you see that this would be just a copy of who we are and would not be us?
What do you think God does with the spirit of a man when it returns to Him at the death of the body?

 

[Brian2]

Yes, the gospel Jesus preached is the one of Luke 4:43; Luke 8:1 about God's kingdom ( thy kingdom come.... ) - Matthew 4:23.

Why does the WT say that the Kingdom is a government when it is much more and includes the people who are citizens in the Kingdom?

Jesus has returned in the sense that he is Head of the Christian congregation - Ephesians 5:23; 1Corinthians 11:3.
Returned in that he is behind his instruction to proclaim on a grand international scale the 'good news of God's kingdom' earth wide.

Jesus has always been the Head of the Christian congregation.
Has the WT changed it's teaching about Jesus having returned in 1914 as an invisible Spirit?
Is He going away to come again or what, how does that part of it happen in JW theology?

Heaven or being one of the people of Daniel 7:18 (saints/ holy ones) was Not offered to anyone who died before Jesus died - John 3:13
That heavenly calling starts with people like those of Luke 22:28-30.

Nevertheless the OT saints will be in the New Jerusalem with God and the Lamb when it comes down out of heaven to be on the earth. Is there another New Jerusalem which stays in heaven or is God staying there with the Lamb when said He wants to be on earth in Zion forever?

What are the measurements of heavenly new Jerusalem ______________________________________________________
in other words, where would it be located on Earth _____________________

It is large according to Revelation and would be located where the Old Jerusalem is I imagine. I see no problem for God to do that. The Bible does tell us that it comes down to earth from heaven, is that not true?

 

[Brian2]

We can find the answer as found at 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
Please notice that Jesus gives back God's kingdom to his God.
God's kingdom is the government that replaces all unrighteous government as pictured at Daniel 2:44
Because ' enemy death ' will be permantely removed the need for Jesus' part will No longer be necessary for us.

It sounds as if the Kingdom belongs to Jesus now and He is not subject to His Father and the Kingdom is handed back to His Father at the end when He becomes subject to His Father once more, as He was because He is the Son who is subject to His Father.
What does Jesus do then? Does He still govern forever as King?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

How is it that the spirit of a man knows the mind of the man? (see 1Cor 2:10,11)
How is it that the soul of a man lives on after the death of the body? (Matt 10:28)
Do you think that the spirit of a man, which is our life and gives our body life and supplies consciousness to the material body of ours and which knows our mind, might be held in save keeping by God so that the same man might be resurrected and not just a copy of the man, ie a new body with the memories of the man? Can you see that this would be just a copy of who we are and would not be us?
What do you think God does with the spirit of a man when it returns to Him at the death of the body?

My comprehension of Matthew 10:28 is that we should fear him who can 'destroy' BOTH 'body and soul' in Gehenna ( KJV hell fire )
So, I can't see where it says the soul lives on after the death of the body, but like Adam: mortal and destructible.- Acts of the Apostles 3:23
Since the wicked are 'destroyed forever' (Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35) then they are Not living on anywhere.

Yes, agree man's spirit is a neuter 'it' and 'it' returns to God in the same way a foreclosed house 'returns' to the owner.
The house does Not move or go anywhere but any future for that house now lies in the hands of the owner.
So, one's spirit (it) is now in God's safe hands, and any future life ( Resurrection - Acts of the Apostles 24:15 ) now lies in God's hands.

At 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 I see it mentions God's spirit in connection to John 14:26 which helps us.
For our day or time frame Daniel 12:3-4 sees fulfillment that biblical knowledge would become abundant.
What was 'sealed up' (Daniel 12:9) would now become known to us through the help of God's spirit.
This help is a reason why we are to pray asking for holy spirit - Luke 11:13
Because of holy spirit, study and meeting together would serve as survival classes for us - Hebrews 10:24-26; Revelation 2:29

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It sounds as if the Kingdom belongs to Jesus now and He is not subject to His Father and the Kingdom is handed back to His Father at the end when He becomes subject to His Father once more, as He was because He is the Son who is subject to His Father.
What does Jesus do then? Does He still govern forever as King?

An inquiring mind wants to know, and the answer to ' do then ' is still future.
Since Jesus as Messiah fulfills his role, then there is No longer a need for Jesus to be king of God's kingdom - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
What Jesus will be doing will be revealed after the end of the thousand years.
In other words, as with Adam originally, we will then have a one-on-one basis with God.
Jesus' role as Mediator will No longer be necessary - 1 Timothy 2:5
So, it would be a good idea to try to be classed as one of those figurative humble ' sheep ' at the coming time of Matthew 25:31-33,37
This way we can be around to see what Jesus will be up to after the thousand years.

 

[cataway]

I believe Jesus forgave the Pharisees because they didn't know what they were doing. That means what they were doing was a sin that had to be forgiven. It is the same with a child.

i see it far more likely Jesus was speaking of the soldiers that were nailing him to the stake

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why does the WT say that the Kingdom is a government when it is much more and includes the people who are citizens in the Kingdom?
Jesus has always been the Head of the Christian congregation.
Has the WT changed it's teaching about Jesus having returned in 1914 as an invisible Spirit?
Is He going away to come again or what, how does that part of it happen in JW theology?
Nevertheless the OT saints will be in the New Jerusalem with God and the Lamb when it comes down out of heaven to be on the earth. Is there another New Jerusalem which stays in heaven or is God staying there with the Lamb when said He wants to be on earth in Zion forever?
It is large according to Revelation and would be located where the Old Jerusalem is I imagine. I see no problem for God to do that. The Bible does tell us that it comes down to earth from heaven, is that not true?

I find every kingdom / government has citizens and God's kingdom has citizens or subjects as found at Psalms 72:8 ( citizens from sea to sea - earth wide )

www.jw.org has Not changed about Jesus' return being an invisible spirit person.
Yes, Jesus went away, and John 14:19 says the world would see Jesus No more.
So, Jesus' return (Luke 19:11-15) would be invisible, only perceived seen by the mind's eye.

I don't think you calculated the measurements about New Jerusalem as found at Revelation 21:15-17 ____________________
That city is a perfect 4 square cube shape 12,000 furlongs or about 1,380 miles in perimeter surrounded by a wall 210 feet high.
The city would end up towering 350 miles into outer space.
And what about the building materials as per Revelation 21:18-21________
New Jerusalem's broad way is pure gold like glass, and its each of its 12 gates (openings) have one pearl for each gate ( imaging the size of that oyster ! )
So, how could such a city come down to rest where old Jerusalem is. This city would cover territory 14 times as large as modern Israel.

Revelation 1 itself informs us that Revelation is written in signs, very-vivid word pictures or 16 visions, so a lot of Revelation is Not literal.