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Christians. Heaven and hell

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I never heard of "energies" in a religious sense. Many people believe that the "soul" never dies. They it is just "separated from God". I am saying that this is not what the Bible teaches.
I find what the Bible really teaches is the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20.
Adam did Not possess a soul, Adam did Not have a soul, rather Adam was a soul. Adam became a living soul or person.
Lifeless Adam came to life only after his God breathed the ' breath of life ' into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7
At death Adam became a lifeless soul. Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. All of Adam went back to dust where he started.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
They lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. What happens after that?
We can find the answer as found at 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.
Please notice that Jesus gives back God's kingdom to his God.
God's kingdom is the government that replaces all unrighteous government as pictured at Daniel 2:44
Because ' enemy death ' will be permantely removed the need for Jesus' part will No longer be necessary for us.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Because the Bible teaches that the wicked are to be destroyed forever, then yes, destroyed people are separated from God forever - Psalms 92:7; 104:35
The Bible also teaches there is an unforgivable sin. Since it is the wicked who end up committing that sin (Matthew 12:32) they are separated from God.
Separated from life, never to see life ever again, but to be gone forever and ever with No hope of ever returning to life.
In other words, wicked people will become extinct, and never see the 'light of day' ever again.

Your belief system doesn't sound very comforting. How do you better yourself knowing the "wicked" will be seperated from god?

Do you learn anything of value from those verses?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus and the Father will be in New Jerusalem and New Jerusalem is to come down to earth out of heaven.
The scriptures tell us in very plain language that every eye will see Jesus.
Jesus says that the world will see Him no more because He was finishing His work on earth and going back to heaven. We don't see Him at the moment.
I could say the same thing when I quit a job, that my work there is finished and I am going away and they won't see me any more, but this does not mean they won't see me at the resurrection,,,,,,,,,,,,,and Jesus did not mean that they won't see Him when He returns. In fact He said that everyone would see Him when He returns.
You have to twist that around and say it means that every "eye of faith" will see Him. What?
The Watchtower does similar things with other verses by rejecting the plain ones and making up strange things about the other. eg. Jesus said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive and because the Watchtower does not agree with that they have to say "...............alive in the memory of God". What the? This is an interesting way to deny plain verses in a way that makes it look, to the faithful JWs, like they are not being denied.

We can see him with the ' mind's eye ' by what is happening around us - Please remember John14:19 that the world would behold him No more.
I find Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures for us (Rev. 1:1) so every eye seeing Jesus does Not have to be literal.
People can observe around-the-world evidences around them such as what Jesus said at Matthew 24:14; Luke 21:11 and the list at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.

New Jerusalem is heavenly Jerusalem. Jerusalem above being the seat of government - Galatians 4:26
How could the measurements of heavenly Jerusalem fit on Earth ___________

Please notice the dead people mentioned at Hebrews chapter 11 because they are all still dead people - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39-40.
This is why the 'future tense' is used in connection to the 'future resurrection' at Acts of the Apostles 24:15

www.jw.org
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Your belief system doesn't sound very comforting. How do you better yourself knowing the "wicked" will be seperated from god? Do you learn anything of value from those verses?

To me what comfort would it be to you if you were surrounded by wicked people _____________Would you feel safe and secure ____________
I find comfort in Jesus example about a neighborly good Samaritan man at Luke 10:29-37.
That Samaritan man broadened out, widened out in showing practical helpful love to even a stranger.
Also, we better oneself by having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has (John 13:34-35)
Under the old Constitution of the Mosaic Law for ancient Israel there was what is often called the Golden Rule - Leviticus 19:18
They were to love neighbor as oneself, whereas what Jesus taught was to now love neighbor MORE than self.
Thus, Christians are to take the 'good news of God's kingdom' (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14) to all peoples wicked or not.
This message gives the wicked the opportunity to repent so as Not to perish ( be destroyed ) to Not remain wicked - 2 Peter 3:9
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
To me what comfort would it be to you if you were surrounded by wicked people _____________Would you feel safe and secure ____________
I find comfort in Jesus example about a neighborly good Samaritan man at Luke 10:29-37.
That Samaritan man broadened out, widened out in showing practical helpful love to even a stranger.
Also, we better oneself by having the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has (John 13:34-35)
Under the old Constitution of the Mosaic Law for ancient Israel there was what is often called the Golden Rule - Leviticus 19:18
They were to love neighbor as oneself, whereas what Jesus taught was to now love neighbor MORE than self.
Thus, Christians are to take the 'good news of God's kingdom' (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14) to all peoples wicked or not.
This message gives the wicked the opportunity to repent so as Not to perish ( be destroyed ) to Not remain wicked - 2 Peter 3:9

Question with a question?

I'm serious. How do these verses comfort you?

Obviously, you like to quote them with each post so they have some value to you, what?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Question with a question? I'm serious. How do these verses comfort you?
Obviously, you like to quote them with each post so they have some value to you, what?

Please notice that I did Not ' quote ' them, but make reference to what I was saying about those verses, and how they can comfort you.
If a person does Not read the verses then to me there is No interest in what they say.
Was there No comfort about the good Samaritan man ___________
Was there No comfort in showing self-sacrificing love to others __________
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Please notice that I did Not ' quote ' them, but make reference to what I was saying about those verses, and how they can comfort you.
If a person does Not read the verses then to me there is No interest in what they say.
Was there No comfort about the good Samaritan man ___________
Was there No comfort in showing self-sacrificing love to others __________

I was specifically talking if the verses about wickedness. There's no need to quote verses unless it's a theological conversation or your comments have higher emphases than the verses.

Also, you can just post john 3:16 (example) without the verse itself. It looks clogged. That way I'm not fishing for your comments and I have context when I look them up on biblehub. RF translation and kjv I can't understand well enough.

But the first set of verses on seperation from god, people being distroyed, wickedness, etc how does that help you grow in Christ?

Also. Stick to one set of verses. If each post has a new set of verses it looks like a diversion without comments to add.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I find what the Bible really teaches is the soul that sins dies - Ezekiel 18:4,20.
Adam did Not possess a soul, Adam did Not have a soul, rather Adam was a soul. Adam became a living soul or person.
Lifeless Adam came to life only after his God breathed the ' breath of life ' into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7
At death Adam became a lifeless soul. Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before. All of Adam went back to dust where he started.
Except that man also has a spirit. This spirit has the potential to gain eternal life if the person is willing to follow God's rules.Otherwise, it also dies.
 

Brian2

Veteran Member
We can see him with the ' mind's eye ' by what is happening around us - Please remember John14:19 that the world would behold him No more.
I find Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures for us (Rev. 1:1) so every eye seeing Jesus does Not have to be literal.
People can observe around-the-world evidences around them such as what Jesus said at Matthew 24:14; Luke 21:11 and the list at 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.

Matt 24:30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
Matthew is not Revelation.
The scriptures you gave are about the signs of Jesus coming. You believe Jesus has returned already, so why do you give those scriptures?
I also noticed in one of the scriptures that it says "this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached", it does not say another gospel shall be preached. The JW gospel is another gospel that was not preached in the first century and Jesus mentioned nothing about it. For Jesus all needed to be born again and were promised the Holy Spirit to become God's children and all were to be in the Covenant and in the Body of Christ etc.
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

New Jerusalem is heavenly Jerusalem. Jerusalem above being the seat of government - Galatians 4:26
How could the measurements of heavenly Jerusalem fit on Earth ___________

As the scriptures tell us, the heavenly Jerusalem is going to come down to earth and God will dwell there. It is no doubt the right size for the ones who will dwell there. That is where God said He wanted to dwell forever. God will fill this city, because God is everywhere and neither the heavens nor the heaven of the heavens can contain God. (1Kings 8:27
Rev 3:12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
Rev 21:1 Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.

Please notice the dead people mentioned at Hebrews chapter 11 because they are all still dead people - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39-40.
This is why the 'future tense' is used in connection to the 'future resurrection' at Acts of the Apostles 24:15
www.jw.org

The future tense is used at Acts 24:15 because the resurrection was and still is in the future,,,,,,,,,both resurrections. The Old Testament saints are not amongst the "wicked" mentioned in Acts 24:15. If you want to put yourself amongst the wicked in the 2nd resurrection, that is up to you. The blood of Jesus has cleansed us and made us righteous however. Even the great crowd (Rev 7:14) have had their robes
cleansed by the blood of the Lamb.
Yes the OT saints of Heb 11 have not been resurrected yet and nobody has.
They do end up in the New Jerusalem however which comes down out of heaven and in the Kingdom of God.
Heb 11:13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
Matt 8:11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”…
Luke 13:28 There shall be the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves cast out.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes, the gospel Jesus preached is the one of Luke 4:43; Luke 8:1 about God's kingdom ( thy kingdom come.... ) - Matthew 4:23.
Jesus has returned in the sense that he is Head of the Christian congregation - Ephesians 5:23; 1Corinthians 11:3.
Returned in that he is behind his instruction to proclaim on a grand international scale the 'good news of God's kingdom' earth wide.
Heaven or being one of the people of Daniel 7:18 (saints/ holy ones) was Not offered to anyone who died before Jesus died - John 3:13
That heavenly calling starts with people like those of Luke 22:28-30.

What are the measurements of heavenly new Jerusalem ______________________________________________________
in other words, where would it be located on Earth _____________________
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Yes, Romans 5:12 says death spread to all because ALL sinned, not because "Adam sinned".
"Through one man...."

How do you explain the Bible telling us that the immediate generations of Adam's offspring, lived such long lives?
They inherited less imperfect traits from A & E, than we have. They (Seth, Methuselah, Noah) were closer to A & E genetically, closer to their perfection, than we are.

Take care, my cousin.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Could you explain your point. I see that sin entered the world by one man but ALL have sinned. We are guilty of our own sin, not Adam's sin.

Unlike Adam, we can sin by mistake, sin unintentionally, sin by accident and this is because Adam had children only after he sinned.
Thus, adamic death was passed down to us from fallen father Adam.
So, No matter how hard we try we can't stop sinning.
Because we can't stop sinning is why we die.
Since we can't resurrect oneself or another person is why we need a savior and Jesus is the one who can and will resurrect the dead.- Rev. 1:18
So, yes we are Not guilty of Adam's deliberate sin, but guilty for our own sins, sin do to inherited imperfection from fallen father Adam.
- Romans 5:19,15; Romans 4:24
 
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