Christianity and Islam, an impossible alliance?

[Limo]

You sure seem to confirm my perception of the situation, @Limo

It looks like there is no sorrowless way out of this perhaps unavoidable confrontation. Islaamic pride is simply too widespread, too blind, too irresponsible.

It is too bad that things have degenerated so much.

You create the issue and then accuse the other side with ignorance and irresponsibility.

Remember, it's you who want to wipe Quran, Islam, and Muslims.

The ignorant and irresponsible and the biggest terrorist is the side who wants to change beleif of 1.2 billion humans

 

[LuisDantas]

You create the issue and then accuse the other side with ignorance and irresponsibility.

Are you talking to me here, or to the Qur'an?

Remember, it's you who want to wipe Quran, Islam, and Muslims.

I sympathise a lot with Muslims and by no means support "wiping them out", however you might understanding that expression.

I do however expect them to learn better than to hide behind scripture and blind pride. As I do of everyone else.

The ignorant and irresponsible and the biggest terrorist is the side who wants to change beleif of 1.2 billion humans

You are not serious here.

If you were, you would stop for a moment to consider that such a claim does not put Islaam itself in a very good light.

 

[YmirGF]

You sure seem to confirm my perception of the situation, @Limo

It looks like there is no sorrowless way out of this perhaps unavoidable confrontation. Islaamic pride is simply too widespread, too blind, too irresponsible.

It is too bad that things have degenerated so much.

Hell hath no fury like Islaam scorned.

 

[YmirGF]

You create the issue and then accuse the other side with ignorance and irresponsibility.

Sounds suspiciously like the Qur'an and the Muslim narrative since Muhammad himself.

Remember, it's you who want to wipe Quran, Islam, and Muslims.

You might want to throttle back the hysteria several notches. @LuisDantas is probably one of the most peaceful and insightful posters on RF, especially when discussing Islam. I have never heard him utter a single comment even remotely suggesting a radical extermination of all things Islam. Quite the contrary, really.

The ignorant and irresponsible and the biggest terrorist is the side who wants to change beleif of 1.2 billion humans

No one wants to change your beliefs. We simply wish that all too many Muslims were not quite so alarmingly fanatical.

 

[David1967]

They simply have to stop being aggressive to each other and live peacefully.

Agree 100%. We don't need to integrate. We are two separate (although both Abrahamic) religions. Neither Islam or Christianity is going away so why not just accept that they are different in views and live together in peace like most other religions do? Seems simple enough.

 

[fiat lux]

Islam is 20% a religion and 80% a political system based on sharia law, - the proportions can be argued, but it is something like that - which wishes the rest of all religions and political systems to adapt to its mediaeval precepts and its followers are frustrated by trying to reconcile this dilemma. The great and very brave scholar, Hamad Abdel-Samad (catch him on YouTubes) speaks of "post koranic Islam" in his lectures and books, but now lives with a fatwa placed on him.
So no, I don't believe Islam can co-exist peacefully with any religion in its present state.

 

[Limo]

Are you talking to me here, or to the Qur'an?



I sympathise a lot with Muslims and by no means support "wiping them out", however you might understanding that expression.

I do however expect them to learn better than to hide behind scripture and blind pride. As I do of everyone else.


You are not serious here.

If you were, you would stop for a moment to consider that such a claim does not put Islaam itself in a very good light.

Quran is there since 16 centeries. We've lead the world for about thousand years. We've melted several civilizations and produced the best. Europe have taken it forward.

The issue is in head of people who want Muslims to change their belief.
Noway forget it.
We're different, our book hasn't been changed even a litter or a dot. Our faith is the same. It'll as is till the end date

 

[Limo]

Sounds suspiciously like the Qur'an and the Muslim narrative since Muhammad himself.

You might want to throttle back the hysteria several notches. @LuisDantas is probably one of the most peaceful and insightful posters on RF, especially when discussing Islam. I have never heard him utter a single comment even remotely suggesting a radical extermination of all things Islam. Quite the contrary, really.

No one wants to change your beliefs. We simply wish that all to many Muslims were not quite so alarmingly fanatical.

History tells that violence and wars starts by attacking the core belief of a group of people. By time the hate starts.

I see @LuisDantas really wants us to change our belief.
Also, I didn't mean him personally, I mean these ideas are turned into acts by politations and media.

 

[LuisDantas]

Quran is there since 16 centeries. We've lead the world for about thousand years. We've melted several civilizations and produced the best. Europe have taken it forward.

That is one way of interpreting Islaam's history. Not necessarily a very accurate one, particularly when one considers what could the alternatives have been.

Myself, I don't think the demographic success of the cult of monotheism is something to celebrate, given how much harm it did on freedom of belief and on humanity as a whole. But I guess I am in the minority.

The issue is in head of people who want Muslims to change their belief.
Noway forget it.

If you say so.

In any case, there is no way out of taking responsibility for your beliefs and what they lead people to do. Even if those beliefs include the claim that you are only obeying God's will.

We're different, our book hasn't been changed even a litter or a dot. Our faith is the same. It'll as is till the end date

I am well aware of the assurance of endurance of the Qur'an.

You are welcome to believe in that if you want to. But please understand that it is your choice to believe in that. Other people have no duty to agree with you, and certainly none to run risks of life and limb on your stead in order to protect such a belief.

 

[LuisDantas]

History tells that violence and wars starts by attacking the core belief of a group of people. By time the hate starts.

Does it now? It seems to me that such is the general rule when Islaam is involved, but not at all when it is not.

Islaam, quite simply, is not representative.

If you feel that you can offer some counter-examples, by all means feel encouraged to do so.

I see @LuisDantas really wants us to change our belief.

I very much do. All people should learn better than to justify themselves on scripture.

Also, I didn't mean him personally, I mean these ideas are turned into acts by politations and media.

Thanks. But tell me, why would that criticism spare Islaam when it appears to badly need to accept it instead?

 

[David1967]

Is Christianity ready tolerant and can reconcile some of faith to comply with Islam or only Islam that need to change to accept Christianity belief ?

Fair question LIMO. Neither Christianity nor Islam should be required to "comply" with the other. They are two separate faiths. But both should be respectful and tolerant of the other. We should both adopt a policy of live and let live without the need to impose our ideals on each other. The world would be a much better and more peaceful place. Don't ya think?

 

[YmirGF]

Astronomy and astrology are irreconcilable and supremacist about the correct way to view stars and planets. astronomers are not bombing astrologers and astrologers are not assassinating astronomers.

There has to be an additional directive of "go and violently subjugate all who disagree" for this to happen.

2:190 Fight in the way of God those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. God does not like transgressors.
2:191 And kill them wherever you find them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah [Persecution] is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.
2:192 And if they cease, then indeed, God is Forgiving and Merciful.
2:193 Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah [Persecution] and [until] worship is for God. But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.
2:194 [Fighting in] the sacred month is for [aggression committed in] the sacred month, and for [all] violations is legal retribution. So whoever has assaulted you, then assault him in the same way that he has assaulted you. And fear God and know that God is with those who fear Him.
2:195 And spend in the way of God and do not throw [yourselves] with your [own] hands into destruction [by refraining]. And do good; indeed, God loves the doers of good.
<source> (Loved their explanations on that page, btw...)


Yep... no call to action here. Keep in mind these are supposedly the words of God almighty!

Is it me or is the red highlighted part a troubling passage complete with very odd ways to put things. So, in effect, war against any kind of imagined oppression (of Islam or Muslims) is a permanent feature of this Rodney Dangerfield religion.

 

[psychoslice]

On purely aesthetic grounds, I find Arabic script to be quite beautiful.


I agree with you, we don't have to agree to get along. But the fact remains that the aggression is overwhelmingly one-sided.

Have you read the Quran and the Hadith ?.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Debate is always there all over the history with People of the Books. Prophet Mohamed saaws did it several times. Some of these debates are already in Quran.
If you mean by dialogue, change of belief then forget it. Not a single inch.
Wny do you need to change somebody's belief ?

Again, you're mixing between belief conflict and followers conflict.

Then you agree, noneed for theological reconciliation.

Islamic entities are remarkable but there are these religion motivated entities in many religions.

At least you agree that it's condemned by majority.
I agree with you, Muslims who are saying these Islamic entities (Sunnies) are not really Muslims are wrong.

I was challenging these thoughts that promote as it's a global conflict between all Muslims and Christians .

Simply. no force on earth can even think to succeed to wipe Quran or Islam. No force on earth can wipe Muslims. You can't distinguish between Muslims and Quran. You might find some Muslims that are not really Muslims saying good words to make you happy.

If you keep these objectives, I warn you, You're igniting a war that it'll not be like any previous one.

I think there are some leaders in west share you the same opinion. They've started slowly under the surface. Trump is going to give it a strong push forward.

Regards

Actually there is something it came from Sumeria and it could destroy much more than just islam.

 

[Glaurung]

Have you read the Quran and the Hadith ?.

I've skimmed the Qur'an, but I have yet to give it a serious read. It is on my to do list though. But what has that got to do with what I said?

I'm talking about the script, the alphabet, (it's actually an impure abjad but semantics aside) not the content of any particular text written in it.

 

[psychoslice]

I've skimmed the Qur'an, but I have yet to give it a serious read. It is on my to do list though. But what has that got to do with what I said?

I'm talking about the script, the alphabet (it's actually an impure abjad but semantics aside) not the content of any particular text written in it.

I see, but be sure to read these books, you will see what I was getting at.

 

[danieldemol]

History tells that violence and wars starts by attacking the core belief of a group of people. By time the hate starts.

After the time you spent attacking the core beliefs of Christians as being unlike the way of Jesus etc, it seems a little hypocritical to ascribe warfare to others for criticising the core beliefs of your religion. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.

I see LuisDantas really wants us to change our belief.
Also, I didn't mean him personally, I mean these ideas are turned into acts by politations and media.

It is only wrong to desire to change the beliefs of another forcefully.
If you don't desire to change the beliefs of others at all you really shouldn't be discussing religion with anyone in case influence occurs one way or the other.

 

[Limo]

Fair question LIMO. Neither Christianity nor Islam should be required to "comply" with the other. They are two separate faiths. But both should be respectful and tolerant of the other. We should both adopt a policy of live and let live without the need to impose our ideals on each other. The world would be a much better and more peaceful place. Don't ya think?

Absolutely agree.
I'll tell you something, Islam is there since 15 centuries. It happened in tha past for all countries outside Arabic Peninsula that Muslims minority ruled the non-Muslim majority for centuries.
Still many non-Muslims exist in Muslim countries since centuries, they were not pushed to convert. In a few cases, Muslims did harm non-Muslims.

Also, since the decay of Othmanies Caliphate in the beginning of 19 century, Muslims or even secular Muslims never started a war or concurred a country.
Vice versa, since beginning of 19 century, Christian or secular Christian countries concurred, killed, theft wealth, badly influence in Muslim countries.

Making peace is easy, each side should keep his nose out of others business and belief.
Regards

 

[Limo]

After the time you spent attacking the core beliefs of Christians as being unlike the way of Jesus etc, it seems a little hypocritical to ascribe warfare to others for criticising the core beliefs of your religion. Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.


It is only wrong to desire to change the beliefs of another forcefully.
If you don't desire to change the beliefs of others at all you really shouldn't be discussing religion with anyone in case influence occurs one way or the other.

There is a big difference between debate/breach and ask someone to change his belief by force or "to live in peace among us"

We can discuss and debate with respect and peaceful.
The point here is Quran should be wiped.
Regards

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Why they cannot be reconciled is pretty far from unclear. The main problem is that Islam is a supremacist religion and all too many Muslims perceive it as being the only "true" religion. There is no happy coexistence with an ideology that seeks to replace your own.

But how is that different from Christianity?

We must forget labels to work together. It is not ultimately important who someone was biologically so long as we are all working together to make the world a better place.

People really ought to reconsider their assumption that Islaam is so similar to Christianity that the two can interact as equals at some point. They can not. The Qur'an expressely forbids that, by name even, and with the assurance that God has made its mind on the matter and won't ever change its judgement.

I agree, but the bible is filled with that too.

What about them? They seem to be on fairly good terms currently.

Just saw on my FB page from a news site that many Jewish headstones are being destroyed. Someone is not on good terms ...

I would look for anyone who cuts eye holes in their white pillowcases ...

I would be hard pressed to even recall such a group that does not consider itself Islaamic and is a significant worry as of now.

Groups led by Putin, Neti, Donald ...

I live in the US. I'm much more at risk statistically of being in danger from some redneck Christian than I am any other type of person. I still am, even though I thought moving above the Mason-Dixon line would solve that, but I think I see more CSA/Trump stuff up here in PA than I did in the actual South ...