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Christianity and Islam, an impossible alliance?

fiat lux

Member
The Bishop of Regensburg, Germany, Rudolf Voderholzer, said on January 30 that there could be no reconciliation between Christians and Muslims. Islam is a "post-Christian phenomenon, with the claim to negate the core content of Christianity," he said. "Only those who do not know their own faith or do not take it seriously can consider a comprehensive integration of Islam as possible."
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Bishop of Regensburg, Germany, Rudolf Voderholzer, said on January 30 that there could be no reconciliation between Christians and Muslims. Islam is a "post-Christian phenomenon, with the claim to negate the core content of Christianity," he said. "Only those who do not know their own faith or do not take it seriously can consider a comprehensive integration of Islam as possible."

Should we take that to mean some in the Catholic church are contemplating an integration with Islam?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
The Bishop of Regensburg, Germany, Rudolf Voderholzer, said on January 30 that there could be no reconciliation between Christians and Muslims. Islam is a "post-Christian phenomenon, with the claim to negate the core content of Christianity," he said. "Only those who do not know their own faith or do not take it seriously can consider a comprehensive integration of Islam as possible."
The good Bishop is quite correct. Islamic theology negates the very core of Christianity and Christian dogma. One small example, is that the vast majority of Muslims see the Muslim version of Jesus as being 2nd to Muhammad, as Muhammad is viewed as the perfect example for mankind. Likewise, the differences between the two views of Jesus couldn't be much more complete. It's as if two entirely different people are being referenced. Aside from this, why would anyone, in their right mind, want to "consider a comprehensive integration of Islam as (being) possible."
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The Bishop of Regensburg, Germany, Rudolf Voderholzer, said on January 30 that there could be no reconciliation between Christians and Muslims. Islam is a "post-Christian phenomenon, with the claim to negate the core content of Christianity," he said. "Only those who do not know their own faith or do not take it seriously can consider a comprehensive integration of Islam as possible."
Christianity and Islam cannot reconcile. Why Christians and Muslims cannot reconcile is unclear. They simply have to stop being aggressive to each other and live peacefully.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Isn't it obvious that different religions can reconcile their theologies? No religion has the same teachings or theology.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Christianity and Islam cannot reconcile. Why Christians and Muslims cannot reconcile is unclear. They simply have to stop being aggressive to each other and live peacefully.
Why they cannot be reconciled is pretty far from unclear. The main problem is that Islam is a supremacist religion and all too many Muslims perceive it as being the only "true" religion. There is no happy coexistence with an ideology that seeks to replace your own.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Why they cannot be reconciled is pretty far from unclear. The main problem is that Islam is a supremacist religion and all too many Muslims perceive it as being the only "true" religion. There is no happy coexistence with an ideology that seeks to replace your own.
Astronomy and astrology are irreconcilable and supremacist about the correct way to view stars and planets. astronomers are not bombing astrologers and astrologers are not assassinating astronomers. There has to be an additional directive of "go and violently subjugate all who disagree" for this to happen.
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Islam is a disgusting believe system in my view, it has nothing going for it, it hates poetry, art, anything that is stimulating, yes it is a horrible belief system.
 

Sakeenah

Well-Known Member
The Bishop of Regensburg, Germany, Rudolf Voderholzer, said on January 30 that there could be no reconciliation between Christians and Muslims. Islam is a "post-Christian phenomenon, with the claim to negate the core content of Christianity," he said. "Only those who do not know their own faith or do not take it seriously can consider a comprehensive integration of Islam as possible."

I don't see why christians and muslims should compromise in regards to their theological beliefs. Agreeing on theological issues is in my opinion not a requirement for tolerance or respect.Muslims and christians can have a dialogue on their differences without expecting the other to compromise or abandon their beliefs. I believe it's possible and it does happen,I've posted a dialogue between a christian and muslim theologian in Islam DIR.
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Islaam is impossible to reconcile with other doctrines. That is its whole point. It expects to subsum and "correct" everything else. It is monotheism "taken to eleven", monotheism for monotheism's sake and at the expense of pretty much everything else.

Any honest reading of the Qur'an makes it patently clear that the Muslim understanding of "respect towards other faiths" translates into "being patient with their failure to readily admit that they all ought to become Muslims".

People really ought to reconsider their assumption that Islaam is so similar to Christianity that the two can interact as equals at some point. They can not. The Qur'an expressely forbids that, by name even, and with the assurance that God has made its mind on the matter and won't ever change its judgement.

Silly as that is, it is also a big part of its appeal. It does offer ready-made answers... even if they are worth nothing whatsoever.
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
Why they cannot be reconciled is pretty far from unclear. The main problem is that Islam is a supremacist religion and all too many Muslims perceive it as being the only "true" religion. There is no happy coexistence with an ideology that seeks to replace your own.
You could say the same about Catholicism, as demonstrated by the quotes in this thread. There’s some missing context around the quote around the very different words used like “reconciliation” and “integration” but if peaceful co-existence between faiths with significant ideological differences wasn’t possible, the Catholics and Protestants couldn’t have (eventually) stopped hating and killing each other.
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
Islam is a disgusting believe system in my view, it has nothing going for it, it hates poetry, art, anything that is stimulating, yes it is a horrible belief system.
On purely aesthetic grounds, I find Arabic script to be quite beautiful.

I don't see why christians and muslims should compromise in regards to their theological beliefs. Agreeing on theological issues is in my opinion not a requirement for tolerance or respect.Muslims and christians can have a dialogue on their differences without expecting the other to comprimise or abandon their beliefs. I believe it's possible and it does happen,I've posted a dialogue between a christian and muslim theologian in Islam DIR.
I agree with you, we don't have to agree to get along. But the fact remains that the aggression is overwhelmingly one-sided.
 
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Limo

Active Member
Conclusion from most of comments, Islam is guilty !!! It's Islam fault !!!

Is Christianity ready tolerant and can reconcile some of faith to comply with Islam or only Islam that need to change to accept Christianity belief ?

Forget that @%#^%$ religion Islam for the time being....
What about Judaism ?
Both Judaism and Christianity are using the same Old Testimony. Who is the problem in this case, Judaism and/or Christianity ?​
Judaism is monotheism and doesn't recognize Jesus-Christ as Al-Maseh

ohhhh, #%^#%^

Forget about Islam and Judaism for time being.

What about reconcile different Churches Orthodox, Romans, Protestant,,, they're all Trinitarian. What a surprise ?
Yes, and they are share the Old and New Testimony.
What about JW, Mormons, Unitarians, Evangelist,,,,
 

Limo

Active Member
We need to differentiate between to different reconciliations in religions in general not only Islam-Christianity:
  • Theological Reconciliation :
    • It's impossible and not needed. Previous trials failed. It's not needed
  • People Reconciliation :
    • It exists.It's there in everywhere
    • Except for some countries, groups, and persons
    • These countries, groups, and persons in some cases are motivated by religion
    • These religion motivated entities are there in all regions
    • These entities and incidents are condemned from majority of same beleif
So, It's a global Christians against Muslims.
People need to work for peace not to wipe Islam and Quran
 

1AOA1

Active Member
The Bishop of Regensburg, Germany, Rudolf Voderholzer, said on January 30 that there could be no reconciliation between Christians and Muslims. Islam is a "post-Christian phenomenon, with the claim to negate the core content of Christianity," he said. "Only those who do not know their own faith or do not take it seriously can consider a comprehensive integration of Islam as possible."
It depends on the lifestyles used to define Islam and Christianity. Those who have been referred to as "illegitimate sons of God" and not Jews, for example, can be given the label "Jews" elsewhere.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
There has to be an additional directive of "go and violently subjugate all who disagree" for this to happen.
Post-death rewards, strict adherence to dogma, strong sense of honor, and fear of a cosmic power/deity are typically a "base" for the recipe. After that, things such as propaganda, economic repression, and many local factors, but without three of those four "bases," I don't think you're very likely to find violent dogmatic adherents. But, I bring that up because so often what people typically think of as the dirt poor and uneducated very likely probably isn't the case, with organization leaders especially being very wealthy and even often university educated.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Conclusion from most of comments, Islam is guilty !!! It's Islam fault !!!
That its doctrine does not really allow for eye-to-eye dialog with other doctrines?

Yes, it sure seems to me that it is Islaam's responsibility that it took that choice.

Do you disagree? I am ready to listen to your arguments on why.


Is Christianity ready tolerant and can reconcile some of faith to comply with Islam or only Islam that need to change to accept Christianity belief ?
That is a fair question. In practice, it seems to me that there is a whole spectrum of answers, depending on which Christian group one is looking at.

To be fair, to a significant extent that is a result of people generally demanding more of a reasonable stance from Christianity in recent centuries.

How much of it came from voluntary choice of Christianity itself is a matter of considerable debate and may easily be impossible to answer objectively.

Forget that @%#^%$ religion Islam for the time being....
What about Judaism ?
Both Judaism and Christianity are using the same Old Testimony. Who is the problem in this case, Judaism and/or Christianity ?​
Judaism is monotheism and doesn't recognize Jesus-Christ as Al-Maseh

ohhhh, #%^#%^

What about them? They seem to be on fairly good terms currently.

Forget about Islam and Judaism for time being.

What about reconcile different Churches Orthodox, Romans, Protestant,,, they're all Trinitarian. What a surprise ?
Yes, and they are share the Old and New Testimony.
What about JW, Mormons, Unitarians, Evangelist,,,,

They are diverging doctrines that all claim some measure of common origin. They often disagree. But there is not really a whole lot of tension arising from that.

I have a hunch that you see that as significantly greater an issue than I do. To the best of my knowledge, the height of it comes from some Christians claiming that JW, Mormons and SDA are in some sense not really Christians.

That does not have a whole lot of consequence, nor should it.

We need to differentiate between to different reconciliations in religions in general not only Islam-Christianity:
  • Theological Reconciliation :
    • It's impossible and not needed. Previous trials failed. It's not needed
That is not always true, but I agree that it is not often needed, nor should it be necessary either.


  • People Reconciliation :
    • It exists.It's there in everywhere
    • Except for some countries, groups, and persons
    • These countries, groups, and persons in some cases are motivated by religion

And at the present time, it turns out that Islaam is very much remarkable as such a motivator.

I would be hard pressed to even recall such a group that does not consider itself Islaamic and is a significant worry as of now.

  • These religion motivated entities are there in all regions

No, not really.

  • These entities and incidents are condemned from majority of same beleif
With very significant exceptions. And also with the major complication that most Muslims seem to prefer to expect people to perceive those groups as somehow "obviously" not being Muslims...

That is definitely not helpful, either for resolving the situations nor for the overall reputation and merits of Islaam.

So, It's a global Christians against Muslims.
No, I don't think that is at all an accurate depiction of the current situation.

People need to work for peace not to wipe Islam and Quran

It would be nice to have clearer reasons and means to distinguish between the two goals.
 

Limo

Active Member
That its doctrine does not really allow for eye-to-eye dialog with other doctrines?

Yes, it sure seems to me that it is Islaam's responsibility that it took that choice.

Do you disagree? I am ready to listen to your arguments on why.
Debate is always there all over the history with People of the Books. Prophet Mohamed saaws did it several times. Some of these debates are already in Quran.
If you mean by dialogue, change of belief then forget it. Not a single inch.
Wny do you need to change somebody's belief ?
What about them? They seem to be on fairly good terms currently.
I mean the Judaism and Christian beliefs. There is neither compliance nor mutual acceptance between fath.
They are diverging doctrines that all claim some measure of common origin. They often disagree. But there is not really a whole lot of tension arising from that.

I have a hunch that you see that as significantly greater an issue than I do. To the best of my knowledge, the height of it comes from some Christians claiming that JW, Mormons and SDA are in some sense not really Christians.

That does not have a whole lot of consequence, nor should it.
Again, you're mixing between belief conflict and followers conflict.
That is not always true, but I agree that it is not often needed, nor should it be necessary either.
Then you agree, noneed for theological reconciliation.
And at the present time, it turns out that Islaam is very much remarkable as such a motivator.

I would be hard pressed to even recall such a group that does not consider itself Islaamic and is a significant worry as of now.
Islamic entities are remarkable but there are these religion motivated entities in many religions.
No, not really.
Why you're sure that there is no religious motivated groups in other religions ?
Global Christian terrorism - Wikipedia
US 10 of the Worst Terror Attacks by Extreme Christians and Far-Right White Men
With very significant exceptions. And also with the major complication that most Muslims seem to prefer to expect people to perceive those groups as somehow "obviously" not being Muslims...

That is definitely not helpful, either for resolving the situations nor for the overall reputation and merits of Islaam.
At least you agree that it's condemned by majority.
I agree with you, Muslims who are saying these Islamic entities (Sunnies) are not really Muslims are wrong.
No, I don't think that is at all an accurate depiction of the current situation.
I was challenging these thoughts that promote as it's a global conflict between all Muslims and Christians .
It would be nice to have clearer reasons and means to distinguish between the two goals.
Simply. no force on earth can even think to succeed to wipe Quran or Islam. No force on earth can wipe Muslims. You can't distinguish between Muslims and Quran. You might find some Muslims that are not really Muslims saying good words to make you happy.

If you keep these objectives, I warn you, You're igniting a war that it'll not be like any previous one.

I think there are some leaders in west share you the same opinion. They've started slowly under the surface. Trump is going to give it a strong push forward.

Regards
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
You sure seem to confirm my perception of the situation, @Limo

It looks like there is no sorrowless way out of this perhaps unavoidable confrontation. Islaamic pride is simply too widespread, too blind, too irresponsible.

It is too bad that things have degenerated so much.
 
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