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Christianity a Pagan religion

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
My point:

@A Greased Scotsman

The concept of a saviour deity can be traced back to Pagan cults like Mithraism & Orphic worship of Dionysus, the Pope holds an originally Pagan title: Pontifex Maximus,

That may be but it does not mean Christianity accepts what they believe.

It may be, of course. You are right. Even if it is, we are talking about history not the message christians believe in.

For example, Lukumi and christianity both sacrifice. This is a pagan Practice. Its been done in history for yeeaars.

Christianity message is different. Like "you said" they dont accept what others do. I agree.

The message between each religion is different.

The history, in parts, is not.

How can you disagree with history?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
There is nothing wrong with an older religion being part of a newer religion's history. That has nothing to do with what each religion distinctively teaches in message.

If christians dont believe in religion and its history, why are you guys as a whole upset when we say in facts that your Religion has paganism in it and not your message?

If christianity as a Religion is bad, (how some say Christiondom), why is it wrong to say this religion is in part have pagan elements in it?

Not christ's messsge.
Not the creator
Not he holy spirit

Just the religion.

How can you bypass history as if the history is equal to the message? Or is it?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Usually I express my opinion, but any theology class will show old religions mix with new.

:rolleyes: Im serious. Can any mainstream christian prove that christian history has no mix with religions prior and surrounding the apostles immediate environment?

This will be messin with me all mornin
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I accept wha tthe one tgrfue God says---I AM God and ther is no others.

How doo you know the gods of other religions are real?

I don't know the gods of other faiths (including yours) are real but, being a polytheist, I'm open to the possibility. That doesn't mean I'd worship them though.


That may be but it does not mean Christianity accepts what they believe.

Doesn't matter if you believe it's about a different god - the concept of a saviour deity is originally a Pagan one.


All religions have the idea of a savior somewhere in them.

This is blatantly untrue as even a brief summary of many faiths will tell you.


I am not Catholic and do not accept the idea of a pope. If there is paganism in Catholicism, that is not my problem.

But since Catholicism is a Christian denomination (whether you consider it to be one or not) my point is pertinent.


The doctrine of the Trinity starts in theh first verse in the Bible. That precedes any other cultural beliefs.

Apart from Celtic deities like Brighid, the Morrigan, Ériu, Fódla and Banba; Greek deities like Hekate, Artemis etc. In fact, here's a basic list of triple deities from pre-Christian religious systems - plenty of whom are Greek & Roman and thus would have had an influence on Christianity.


The Christian celebration of Easter and Christmas have nothing to do with pagan celebration of those events, I have never been to a church service celebrating halloween.

Easter & Christmas were more than likely placed over Pagan dates (the festivals of Eostre and the birth of Mithras respectively). Indeed, Christmas is the latest in a line of 'light amidst the darkness' festivals like Yule. Ever wonder where the Christmas trees, Easter bunny, eggs & chicks all come from? Symbols of life & fertility! That's where the roots of Christmas & Easter lie. You can deny that Christianity has Pagan aspects or origins embedded in it but the real world show's you're wrong.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
@omega2xx There is nothing wrong with what you believe in. But your knowledge of history and what paganism is is completely wrong. Anyone can believe anything. That's their problem (if you like). But facts do not change regardless of who believes what is true or false. You not you, can either deny the facts, ignore it, accept it, or use it and move on. It's up to them.

But the first part of the process is to acknowledge what is fact and what isn't. What you believe has nothing to do with what has fact.

:leafwind: Whether you believe this or not, is not the point. The message of your faith has nothing to do with the facts it's based on. Remember: You said history is less important than message.

Christianity is a new religion. It's not ancient. If it was, it would be considered pagan. It is not.

How old is Christianity? When did it stop being a Jewish sect and become its own religion? As reported in “Crossing the Holy Land” in the September/October 2011 issue of Biblical Archaeology Review, new archaeological discoveries of churches are crucial to helping answer those questions. But when did Christians begin to build these churches? Early Christian gathering places are difficult to identify because at first Christians met together mostly in private homes. Even as Christian populations grew, distrust and persecution by their Roman rulers forced the early church to stay out of the public eye.

The situation changed in 313 A.D. when the emperor Constantine made Christianity a licit religion of the Roman Empire. With this acceptance came the construction of large public buildings, or churches, to serve the worship needs of Christians. Remains of these churches are now turning up in Biblical archaeology findings around the world, helping to answer the questions: How old is Christianity in places like Turkey and Egypt? And when did Christianity begin to spread beyond Israel throughout the Roman Empire?​
The Bible History Daily

Christianity is part Roman tradition. The message you are talking about is supposed to be that of the Jews before Christianity took over. However, since Judaism and Christianity are separate faiths, you'd have to be interested in the roots (Judaism) of your belief before defending the product of it (Christianity).

On that point, and I know Christians will hate me on this :confused: but Christianity started with The Church. The Church Eastern and Western before the split. So, in my opinion if one is to say they are Christian, they have to acknowledge being part of The Church.

:leafwind:

Given you are not Catholic, you are a protestant. As a protestant (any protestant), you are not part of the original Church. Your "roots" broke off from original Christianity and formed their own interpretation of scripture. People go off of these interpretations and "only bible" doctrine and forget that the people who made up the bible was the Church. The Church dictated what was inspired and what was not.

The 39 books of the Old Testament form the Bible of Judaism, while the Christian Bible includes those books and also the 27 books of the New Testament. This list of books included in the Bible is known as the canon. That is, the canon refers to the books regarded as inspired by God and authoritative for faith and life. No church created the canon, but the churches and councils gradually accepted the list of books recognized by believers everywhere as inspired.

It was actually not until 367 AD that the church father Athanasius first provided the complete listing of the 66 books belonging to the canon.
  • He distinguished those from other books that were widely circulated and he noted that those 66 books were the ones, and the only ones, universally accepted.
  • The point is that the formation of the canon did not come all at once like a thunderbolt, but was the product of centuries of reflection
How were the books of the bible chosen

In other words, according to the original people who thought which books should be accepted, protestants aren't Christian. They haven't taken all of the sacraments of The Church (Orthodox or Roman). If that is false (Catholics) then every single Christian should be able to take the Eucharist even if it's just Christmas and Easter. They cannot. If there was no split in relationship with Christ, both Roman and Orthodox should be able to take Eucharist all times of the year not just twice. They do not.

The apostles went to many lands to spread the gospel. You cannot ignore the fact that wherever they went, the religions of these different lands influenced their teachings over time.

Also, Christianity wasn't "Christianity" before the apostles spread the word after they receive the holy spirit from the Pentecost.

If you say you are following Jesus' teachings not the apostles and Church teachings, you are not Christian. Nothing wrong with not "being Christian." Jesus still died for you. The whole nine yards. Just to be associated with the Christian faith is to acknowledge that to be Christian, you have to be part of The Church. People argue between which Church Rome or Orthodox, but that's besides the point.

And because Christianity is part of the Church and originated by decisions of the Church body and government, it will and does have pagan (pre-christian) elements in it.

It does not change the meaning it just means the history says you're wrong.

Nothing immorally wrong about that. Just by fact, you're, I'll say, incorrect.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
The thing of it is with all the talk from Christians denying that Paganism is a part of your religion, there another point.


Christianity is a new religion nd a made up one,I saw a video on you tube with someone who says they believe in Iesus the savior but has the true King James bible and claim s your bible as false too. Hes got the real bible.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Watch this it will freak you out and I believe it.

This says the Illuminati the Free Mason are in control of what goes in the bible.


 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
The section starting at 5:20-7:42 is really more than enough, and is all anybody really needs and could use some bibliographical information. The rest of the video is far too long and ought to be in separate videos.

A criticism I have of this video is that it is shallow when discussing how ancient people viewed the constellations. It suggests that anthropomorphizing the sun is done out of respect and appreciation for light as if that is the whole story, leaving this documentary pasty and weak. People love their children, and I think that it should be obvious that teaching the children is a major human compulsion shaping any such treatment of constellations. They taught the children the constellations for parental reasons, so what were those reaons? The documentary leaves that out, making it feel very surreal. There is no humanity or warmth in it. People probably used the constellations to teach basic truths to their children, because what would constellations represent if not eternal truths. Yes, Horus life is a set of 'Allegorical Myths', but those myths have a purpose which the documentary leaves out. If they are real people, then the reasons for their myths are important not just the myths. Overall the documentary does a good job revealing similarities and facts but a bad job discussing what it is all about, leaving it all as inexplicable as if these people are doing these things with no reason. Its a mistake.

I enjoyed some of the images. I did not enjoy the voiceover, which was slightly annoying and would have been better with a female voice or at least with weaker letter 'S'. :mad: The whistling S is almost enough to make me want to throw chairs at the screen. Maybe that is just me though. :rolleyes:

The documentary says that the battle of good versus evil is one of the most common theological dualities but leaves out the obvious psychological underpinnings for that.

Very potent conversations about constellations and comment about Bethlehem representing the constellation Virgo. He loses me a little at the part talking about changing of ages from Aries to Pisces etc., but I understand the suggestion that 'The man bearing a pitcher' could be a reference to a constellation. So he is saying that discussions of the end of the age in the NT are alluding to changes from Zodiacal ages.

I give the video a B-, because with all of that great material the video could be a lot more appealing.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
How about this: Edit the video down to 5:20-7:42 and title it "Proof that the Egyptians also believed in Jesus Christ"
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
I don't know the gods of other faiths (including yours) are real but, being a polytheist, I'm open to the possibility. That doesn't mean I'd worship them though.

If you are converted to Christianity you will and will be happy to do so.


Doesn't matter if you believe it's about a different god - the concept of a saviour deity is originally a Pagan one.

What pagan religion was that and when did it start?

This is blatantly untrue as even a brief summary of many faiths will tell you.

How do you know those faith have true doctrines?


But since Catholicism is a Christian denomination (whether you consider it to be one or not) my point is pertinent.


Catholoicism is a Christian religion, but much of their theology is not Bib lical. IMO you point is not pertinent

Apart from Celtic deities like Brighid, the Morrigan, Ériu, Fódla and Banba; Greek deities like Hekate, Artemis etc. In fact, here's a basic list of triple deities from pre-Christian religious systems - plenty of whom are Greek & Roman and thus would have had an influence on Christianity.

Nothing and no one has had an influence on Christianity. Tell me who did and what their influence was.

Easter & Christmas were more than likely placed over Pagan dates (the festivals of Eostre and the birth of Mithras respectively). Indeed, Christmas is the latest in a line of 'light amidst the darkness' festivals like Yule. Ever wonder where the Christmas trees, Easter bunny, eggs & chicks all come from? Symbols of life & fertility! That's where the roots of Christmas & Easter lie. You can deny that Christianity has Pagan aspects or origins embedded in it but the real world show's you're wrong.

The may come at basically the same time, but our worship does not include any pagan forms of worship.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
If you are converted to Christianity you will and will be happy to do so.




What pagan religion was that and when did it start?



How do you know those faith have true doctrines?





Catholoicism is a Christian religion, but much of their theology is not Bib lical. IMO you point is not pertinent



Nothing and no one has had an influence on Christianity. Tell me who did and what their influence was.



The may come at basically the same time, but our worship does not include any pagan forms of worship.


Not only is Christianity based on Paganism but your bible is a farce. Theres 14,800 differences between the oldest bible and the one we read, it hasn't been translated as is its a fake.
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
To the topic, no Christianity is not a "pagan religion" in any sense of the word.

As I'm sure many know, the term "pagan" is derived from the Latin paganus, and during the time of the Holy Roman Empire, was a term applied to non-Christians. Thus it's a term that can be applied to much of the world - an application that I personally don't like, as it then becomes absolutely useless. Especially when "non-Christian" works just fine. Thus...

In this modern age, with the rise of Contemporary Paganism, many of us in the community prefer to limit the term "Paganism" (yes, yes, I know it's properly "Neopaganism" or "Contemporary Paganism") to the pre-Christian cultural beliefs of Europe; as those groups are the ones who - by and large - self-identify as "Pagan", and their cultures were the ones encountered by the good 'ol SPQR. Kemeticism would be included in this, but I've spoken to several - as well as Atenists - who do not share in the identity of Paganism. This doesn't include individuals who pull from Eastern or indigenous American beliefs--but I digress.

The term was first used to describe non-Christians - and not just a division of dogma or the ridiculous infighting that we see between Protestants and Catholics. Even today it is still archaically used as such. How can Christianity be a "pagan religion" thus?

Christianity is not based on the cultural beliefs of pre-Christian Europe, it is based on Hebrew culture and mythology. True, it might use a few things taken from ancient pagan cultures, but that doesn't mean they view them the same way. Symbols change, and here and there the Christians have their own meaning different from what it was prior.

Things like sacrifice have been done by every culture since the dawn of man. Paganism - both modern and ancient - cannot claim it exclusively. It is as preposterous as Christians claiming that morality and charity are Christian things.

We have our symbols, our holidays, our worship and our observation; let the Christians have theirs.

That said...

Nothing from Carlin will have one iota of truth about Christianity.

You'd be surprised. You seem to be gripped in the delusion that non-Christians know nothing of Christianity, ignoring the fact that many non-Christians were either once practicing Christians themselves, or were raised in Christianity, or even have studied the religion extensively. Not all who know believe, hard as that may be for some to come to terms with.

For example?

For example, St Bridget. No such saint ever actually existed--not as a human Mother Superior, that is. Rather, the Celtic goddess Brighid was stolen, reduced, and reimaged. No longer a goddess, she became a Mother Superior of a convent. Her priestesses became nuns. Her attributes and myths became miracles.

Easter, as it's been mentioned, is a famous example. The only element of Easter that is decidedly Christian is the resurrection. Easter Egg hunts and the accompanying imagery observe the fertility worships of Ostara, the Spring Equinox. Even the date is heavily reliant on Ostara, as it's the first Sunday after the full moon nearest the Equinox.

Mistletoe, used often in Christmas celebrations, is used without understanding. Yet it's meaning for the Yuletide* has much significance to Yule, as it is the weapon with which Hodr slew Baldur, and the death of the Summer God brings about the Winter.

*Yule, as well as the spelling of Jol, has come to mean "Christmas." Yet it's meaning still remains as "Wheel", signifying the end of the yearly wheel cycle. The name, in meaning, has nothing to do with Christmas or Jesus, yet has been made to mean so. It would be like Eucharist coming to mean any wafer snack, despite plainly being defined as "thanksgiving".

Hell* is a concept that has been taken from the Hebrew sheol and the Greek Hades - or more properly Tartarus, as Hell is specified for punishment. *The name "Hell" itself is stolen from the Norse Hel, which similar to Hades is simply the afterlife underworld of the common dead.

There was even a time, early in the history of Christianity, when Rome was first including the fledgling Jewish sect in their numerous religions. There is a mosaic somewhere out there that depicts Orpheus, Apollo, and Jesus all in the same "good shepherd" figure. Much of Christian imagery is thus based on Roman gods and representation. Even the common depiction of Jesus is that of Cesare Borgia, the nephew of a Pope, not true to what Jesus would have actually looked like.

If a religion includes paganism, it is man-made and not from God,

All religions are man-made. Nor does Paganism have scripture or holy texts; our religions are built upon what we use, what we live, and what we observe daily.

Paganism has false gods and may have many gods.

As Scotsman also said, what makes a god false? "Not Abraham's god" isn't really good enough, as his identity is a) from a polytheistic culture, and b) veiled to the point of obscurity. If false is to mean untruthful...

How do you know the gods of other religions are real?

You may be surprised to hear, but most Pagans recognize your god. They recognize other gods, as well. We simply worship our gods, not yours or theirs.

I am not Catholic and do not accept the idea of a pope.

I wonder why, as it's biblically supported.

If there is paganism in Catholicism, that is not my problem.

Oh, but it is. All of Christianity is built off Catholicism, and inevitably carries their beliefs with them.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, Jesus has gained Sun deity attributes, similar to Elijah being associated with deities such as Zeus and Perun.

Перун is associated with Elijah? Eh... That doesn't surprise me, but makes me groan.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Gone
Premium Member
Oh, I don't doubt you. I suppose it's better than being called a "demon." It does strike me as odd, though, that he is paralleled with Перун and Ukko, but not Thor.
Probably because those are Orthodox Christian cultures and Saints are much more highly regarded in Orthodoxy than in the mostly Protestant Germanic cultures.
 

Riders

Well-Known Member
Thank you Ragin Pagan for the info,good post. It is true the term Pagan means non Christian, I shouldve worded it my post better.But as you said its roots are rooted from the same past.

Its hard for me to look at it as non Pagan after watching Carlins video though, Jesus strikes me as a Pagan God.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
Not only is Christianity based on Paganism but your bible is a farce. Theres 14,800 differences between the oldest bible and the one we read, it hasn't been translated as is its a fake.

Personal OPINIONS are like armpits. Everyone has 2 and they both stink.

When you have some evidence for you rant, get back to me.
 
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