Wildswanderer
Veteran Member
If you have two contradictory beliefs, someone has to be wrong.
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Can All Roads Lead to God?
- Thread starter InChrist
- Start date
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
What's wrong is the view that it's a contest, not the contradiction of beliefs.
Using my metaphor, if I say that my path is the best path because ABX, does that mean your path is the worst because XYZ? And if you say yours is best, does that make it so above all others? Both reach the summit, and both are the best path depending on the people walking them. It's not a contest or a race.
exchemist
Veteran Member
False. Both can be partly, but not wholly, true. This notion that everything is black and white is naive and damaging. Nobody with any brains and experience of life thinks like this.
[Rom 11:5, 32-33 NIV] "5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace." ... "32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out!"
[Rom 11:34-36 NIV] 34 "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?" 35 "Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?" 36 For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.
[1Co 3:2-4 NIV] "2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings?"
[1Co 5:12-13 NIV] "12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you.""
[Rom 11:34-36 NIV] 34 "Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?" 35 "Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?" 36 For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.
[1Co 3:2-4 NIV] "2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, "I follow Paul," and another, "I follow Apollos," are you not mere human beings?"
[1Co 5:12-13 NIV] "12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you.""
It's stuff like this from religious people that makes it hard for me to see you as sincere.
Do you actually believe the tenets of your religion? If you do, then wouldn't the traffic signal be operated by God?
Do you think God could account for everyone's understanding of the signal without creating traffic chaos?
I'm trying to decide if your OP is an expression of lack of trust in God - you assuming that God is incapable of using means you don't understand - or hubris - you assuming that you know better than God, or ought to dictate to God what he should be doing.
Do you think that God is capable of guiding people to his desired outcomes? If you do, then you can be sure that one of three things is going on:
- God is guiding people to the outcomes you think God should guide them to, even if you don't understand how.
- God is guiding people to outcomes he thinks are good, even if you don't.
- God isn't guiding people to anything, and he thinks this is okay.
All roads lead someplace.
Not all the same.
All my life, my road has been Atheist Parkway.
Not all the same.
All my life, my road has been Atheist Parkway.
Audie
Veteran Member
Trails that say they will get you to the peak
except there isn't one.
Colt
Well-Known Member
The only standard is faith. God isn't lost, his spirit lives within us. If we are searching for God by faith then we have already found God.
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The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Strong claim; how do you know?
I think that well before such a conclusion is reached, there would need to be some consensus on just what or who 'God' is.
The best trails lead to parking lots, bathrooms, & eateries.
This illuminates meaning about life, the universe, & everything.
Id est, it's not "why", but "where" shall we lunch.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
I believe that God can be found anywhere; even, occasionally, in church.
I don’t think all roads lead to God because first we have to define what God is. I think some roads are dead ends or take longer than necessary. The beliefs of the Aztecs may eventually, after many lives, lead them to whatever God is, but think in the lifetime they were worshiping gods that demanded human sacrifice they were on a dead end road.
In Hinduism we have the devas, lesser gods, demigods, who are not an omnipotent ruler of the universe: as are e.g. Vishnu, Shiva, Devī depending on our sect. “In whatever way people surrender unto Me, I reciprocate accordingly. Everyone follows My path, knowingly or unknowingly, …” BG 4.11 “Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me … but they do so in a wrong way.” BG 9.23 That’s who we Vaishnavas believe to be God speaking. That “wrong way” is one of those detours or delays.
In Hinduism we have the devas, lesser gods, demigods, who are not an omnipotent ruler of the universe: as are e.g. Vishnu, Shiva, Devī depending on our sect. “In whatever way people surrender unto Me, I reciprocate accordingly. Everyone follows My path, knowingly or unknowingly, …” BG 4.11 “Those who are devotees of other gods and who worship them with faith actually worship only Me … but they do so in a wrong way.” BG 9.23 That’s who we Vaishnavas believe to be God speaking. That “wrong way” is one of those detours or delays.
This is true. But our habitual choices define the experience of the road we are on. Sometimes we walk that whole road seeing only the gravel at our feet, and never look up to see the trees and the sky and the rest of the world that was there the whole time.
I wonder sometimes if it is the followers of the religions themselves who mistake the teachings of their own religions about "right ways and wrong ways" to mean "right religions and wrong religions"?
There are right ways and wrong ways, such as the path of hating others, or violence, or dishonesty and such. These are common to all religions. Follow the Dharma, follow the Tao, follow the Will of God, etc. These have merit. But to look at another religion that has different symbols and beliefs and practices from your own, yet all teach these same basic "right paths (love) vs. wrong paths (hate)" teachings, and dismiss them on the basis of superficial differences, is itself the wrong path. It looks at what someone calls themselves, not at the fruits of the hearts.
That's the wrong path, to say, "You can't be good because you think of God differently than me. It doesn't matter if you're a good person. Only right beliefs get you saved.". That is error. That's not the path of love. That's not the path up the side of that mountain.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Haha, yes, sola fide and all that. The Catholic branch of Christianity, unlike the Protestants, emphasises that good works are necessary, in addition to faith
.
Audie
Veteran Member
Like, what do yiu do with it if you
do get to some peak. It's a pointless goal
and you sure can't stay there.
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How very Zen of you.
It's not the destination...it's the journey.
And that journey better have good food, clean
bathrooms, & wonderful views along the way.
You use it to give you perspective, of course.
It is pointless if you are content with having only one perspective on things, a "worm's eye view" versus a bird's eye view, for instance.
That's not true. Many build permanent residences up in the mountains. Some only come up for a visit once in a while. Others are just happy looking at it, living out there life at its base. And still others live in denial of its existence. "Mountain? What mountain?", as they look the other direction out across the planes.