Baha'i faith is not blind faith.

[TransmutingSoul]

There's lots of promises. Like the government will be on his shoulders. Everyone will know God and beat their swords into pruning hooks. Until there actually is peace, Baha'u'llah hasn't fulfilled anything important.

One can look at it that way CG.

Personally I see the victory has been won. Baha'u'llah sits upon the throne and the Law goes out from Zion.

Carmel and Sharon, they have seen the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God and the wilderness and the solitary place are glad for them, and the desert has rejoiced, and has blossomed as the rose.

Baha'u'llah said we would face what out choices and hands have wrought.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

I don't care.

You have shown it, now you said, that you don't care about your scripture.

Nice.

 

[Spirit of Light]

It wasn't that long ago that I recommended you meet with local Baha'is and learn from them and get to know them. That's as positive as I'm going to get about the Baha'i Faith. I really, really don't think that they truly believe any of the other religions are true... that is, in how they believe today. Baha'is, I think, believe that all of them have gone astray and have added in misconceptions about God and spiritual things based on their own misinterpretations of their own Scriptures. But... if those other religions are indeed wrong in what they believe and teach, then that's a good thing for the Baha'i Faith to tell them how wrong they are. How that's? Pretty positive?

But, if you still have a problem, you ask them... What other religion has the exact, absolute truth from God right now and is teaching it and practicing it? I think the only answer they can give you is that they all used to have the truth but not anymore. And that is why God had to send Baha'u'llah to renew God's truth... To bring the truth that is needed for this day and age. Go ahead ask them.

Baha'i Faith isn't far from what personally believe my self, and also I believe all religions hold truth, but understood on different levels, so when reading the different scriptures one see the truth at different levels.
Truth in this context means the most pure truth is God, than the different religions explain God from different P.O.V. so no they are not wrong.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Those are symbols from Islam, in my opinion.

I am asking 'what are the rewards of being near to Allah in Bahaism'. Kindly be specific.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I am asking 'what are the rewards of being near to Allah in Bahaism'. Kindly be specific.

Shoghi Effendi gave us an important thought on this topic.

"....We cannot segregate the human heart from the environment outside us and say that once one of these is reformed everything will be improved. Man is organic with the world. His inner life moulds the environment and is itself also deeply affected by it. The one acts upon the other and every abiding change in the life of man is the result of these mutual reactions."– from a letter to an individual Baha’i.

So rewards unfold to the extent our inner life is improved. So, we can then appreciate that a reward for serving others, over preference to one's own self, is the reward. The punishment is neglecting to partake of the reward of virtues.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yes, I am very human. I don't expect myself to be perfect. Do you expect me to be perfect?
It is not Baha'i speak, for sure. But I don't need you to tell me me that. Do you have any standards of behavior for yourself, by the way?

If it is not 'Bahai speak', then you need some one to tell you that it is not, and that you need to pay more attention to what you are saying or writing. You (and myself) are not perfect, but we should try to be better

So rewards unfold to the extent our inner life is improved.

I have no problem with my 'inner life'. I am at peace with it. It is like telling a normal man that you have psychological problems. Create a doubt in one's mind and then prey upon it.

 

[Trailblazer]

You have shown it, now you said, that you don't care about your scripture.

Nice.

No, @Truthseeker did not say he did not care about his scripture. You said that.
He said he does not care about your understanding of what certain verses mean.

He said: I don't care. You can have your own understanding of what those verses mean. I don't want to look back at verses you have quoted.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am asking 'what are the rewards of being near to Allah in Bahaism'. Kindly be specific.

That is a very good question, and nobody has really answered it yet.
Please let me know when you get the answer to your question.

 

[Trailblazer]

So rewards unfold to the extent our inner life is improved. So, we can then appreciate that a reward for serving others, over preference to one's own self, is the reward. The punishment is neglecting to partake of the reward of virtues.

With all due respect, I do not believe this is only possible to improve our lives, partake of virtues, and appreciate a reward for serving others over preference to one's own self if one is close to God.
The evidence is that many atheists such as @It Aint Necessarily So and @osgart have virtues and serve others.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have no problem with my 'inner life'. I am at peace with it.

I'm glad for you. I am also okay with my inner life, it is my outer life that is problematic.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Please let me know when you get the answer to your question.

I have got the answer. It is "Go only by what has evidence'. After doing that there are no more questions. There are some questions which are not answerable today. Do not try to fill the gaps with unevidenced claptrap. Wait for more data to be available. As for God, soul, prophets etc., as an strong atheist, I dismiss it out-right.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have got the answer. It is "Go only by what has evidence'. After doing that there are no more questions. There are some questions which are not answerable today. Do not try to fill the gaps with unevidenced claptrap. Wait for more data to be available. As for God, soul, prophets etc., as an strong atheist, I dismiss it out-right.

No, I meant let me know when you get the answer to the question about the rewards of being near Allah that you asked @Truthseeker. I did not mean to let me know when you figure it out for yourself.

Aupmanyav said: ↑
I am asking 'what are the rewards of being near to Allah in Bahaism'. Kindly be specific.

 

[firedragon]

No, @Truthseeker did not say he did not care about his scripture. You said that.

Lol. The whole discussion began by me quoting scripture. I told him to read scripture. He says he does not care.

What am I supposed to do about that?

And he told me to "go to hell" twice, while not believing anyone goes to hell. What in the world is that?

Don't be tribalistic defending each other with out knowing context of anything, and that's exactly what he did. Address the argument.

Cheers.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Lol. The whole discussion began by me quoting scripture. I told him to read scripture. He says he does not care.

What am I supposed to do about that?

And he told me to "go to hell" twice, while not believing anyone goes to hell. What in the world is that?

Don't be tribalistic defending each other with out knowing context of anything, and that's exactly what he did. Address the argument.

Cheers.

He doesn't like conversing with you. That's what go to hell meant.

And why should he? You've been condescending ("Lol," "Cute," and "Go research [your scriptures]"), and now you're demeaning @Trailblazer for saying what is obviously correct in your usual manner of attacking people for not agreeing with you by calling a sincere opinion tribalism, and then making your error again ("that is exactly what he did"). That is exactly NOT what he did.

He said that you make him feel badly. You don't seem to mind. You quote mined and misrepresented him as you just did again. You bullied him. Why should he or anybody for that matter want to converse with somebody with that posting etiquette? Sorry, but you're wrong, condescending, dishonest, and manipulative. If your purpose was to exchange information with him, you failed badly. If your purpose was to offend him, you succeeded.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, you get to choose CG.

Regards Tony

And aren't we all coming from different places and have different views. Without getting more information, especially from the people that believe their prophet has new and infallible information direct from the God of the Universe, then we're not ready to choose yet. Atheists pointed out that the foundation of the Baha'i Faith, and several other religions, is shaky. It is based on things that no one knows for sure and that can't be proven. Is there a God? And, if there is, is Baha'u'llah a manifestation of God?

We can't put those aside and see what he had to say... If it makes sense sounds true, but infallibly true? As in coming from God? No, not for everybody. Some question his thoughts on homosexuality and then the punishments he prescribed, the burning of arsonists and that homosexuals need to get therapy to correct their condition. Then tattooing thieves? Who'd be left? That is if we include all people who lie, cheat and steal to get ahead. But I'm sure it would only be small time thieves and not rich, white-collar thieves.

I, as you know, question the truth behind "progressive" revelation and the claim that Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the prophecies from all the major religions. What can Baha'is say? They can't prove any of it. Like the one where it says "he" shall come to you in the KJV but "they" shall come to you in other translations. When it was believed that "he" was the correct translation, Baha'i said, "See... He, meaning Baha'u'llah, will come to you from the mountains and the seas." But... when I pointed out that it was "they" in other translations, you said that Baha'u'llah was not alone, so it was "they" will come to you. That's not fulfilling prophecy. That's making verses fit whatever Baha'is need them to say.

So, the prophecies are all questionable and should be subject to debate and scrutiny. But the Baha'is here don't have all the answer. So, sometimes they get frustrated. And that doesn't help. It looks bad. Like Baha'is don't really know what they believe and why they believe it. Except that... It's what Baha'u'llah taught, and he knew what the truth is, because he is a manifestation of God. And to Baha'is, that is not "blind" faith, that is "true" faith... that you can't prove and just have to take on "faith".

 

[CG Didymus]

One can look at it that way CG.

Personally I see the victory has been won. Baha'u'llah sits upon the throne and the Law goes out from Zion.

Carmel and Sharon, they have seen the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God and the wilderness and the solitary place are glad for them, and the desert has rejoiced, and has blossomed as the rose.

Baha'u'llah said we would face what out choices and hands have wrought.

Regards Tony

Well, Carmel and Sharon are great if all we look at is the Bible, but even with that the throne of David is mentioned and Zion is mentioned a lot. Baha'is have little or nothing to do with Zion and/or Jerusalem, do they? Just a technicality to you, but probably not to Jews. Then Christians would probably agree that Jerusalem is the place where Jesus will return to. I believe they have a verse that mentions the Mt. of Olives. If we're going to talk in just generalities and say that it is only symbolic, then who cares. But that makes anybody's claim just as valid as the Baha'i claims.

Then what about the other religions? Like in Islam... When and where does the Mahdi come? If not specific cities in Persia, then we got a problem. Then, the usual one, will there be two people returning? But then of all places to set up the headquarters of his new religion... Haifa, Israel? Is that prophesied in Islam?

Then the Buddha and Krishna... Where does Kalki and Maitreya return to? And when do they return? Again, if we want to take symbolically, we can make it fit anybody we want to. So, it really doesn't fulfill anything.

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'i Faith isn't far from what personally believe my self, and also I believe all religions hold truth, but understood on different levels, so when reading the different scriptures one see the truth at different levels.
Truth in this context means the most pure truth is God, than the different religions explain God from different P.O.V. so no they are not wrong.

I see it more like we have this thing we call "God". No one knows exactly who or what any real God would be like, so anybody can come up with their own description and definition of who they want their God to be like.

And, as we all know, some cultures have some strange Gods. And not necessarily just one God. The easiest way to explain it for me is... that people made their own God up. It's still coming from their pov, but they are not basing it necessarily on anything real. It is their concept... Coming from their minds.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I see it more like we have this thing we call "God". No one knows exactly who or what any real God would be like, so anybody can come up with their own description and definition of who they want their God to be like.

And, as we all know, some cultures have some strange Gods. And not necessarily just one God. The easiest way to explain it for me is... that people made their own God up. It's still coming from their pov, but they are not basing it necessarily on anything real. It is their concept... Coming from their minds.

I believe God is a being who holds and understanding perfect truth, and the further away from God we get the less of the truth we hold and understand.

My understanding may be wrong of course

 

[firedragon]

He doesn't like conversing with you. That's what go to hell meant.

Aww. Thats very patriotic of you.

And why should he? You've been condescending ("Lol," "Cute," and "Go research [your scriptures]"), and now you're demeaning @Trailblazer for saying what is obviously correct in your usual manner of attacking people for not agreeing with you by calling a sincere opinion tribalism, and then making your error again ("that is exactly what he did"). That is exactly NOT what he did.

He said that you make him feel badly. You don't seem to mind. You quote mined and misrepresented him as you just did again. You bullied him. Why should he or anybody for that matter want to converse with somebody with that posting etiquette? Sorry, but you're wrong, condescending, dishonest, and manipulative. If your purpose was to exchange information with him, you failed badly. If your purpose was to offend him, you succeeded.

Go back to the scripture I quoted. From his own scripture. Tell me if it means people go to hell or they don't. Tell me if its all bogus, just someone saying things they don't really mean. Read the his scripture, and address the argument.

Bye bye.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

With all due respect, I do not believe this is only possible to improve our lives, partake of virtues, and appreciate a reward for serving others over preference to one's own self if one is close to God.
The evidence is that many atheists such as @It Aint Necessarily So and @osgart have virtues and serve others.

Susan, there is many wonderful exquisite lamps yet to be lit.

Regards Tony