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Featured Are there Two Creation Events in Genesis?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by jhwatts, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Yes perspective, the worm eats the Eagles poop.
     
  2. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Reaching....begging the question....
     
  3. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    How? By basing a decision on large a collection of scriptural relationships.
     
  4. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    But in the final analysis, the eagle is destined to be worm poop. The meek shall inherit the earth. :)

    And frankly, the worm is much more important to human well being than eagles. Eagles are just more fun to look at.
    Tom
     
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  5. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    No.

    By not noticing that if a single source gives two or more contradictory answers, it is -- essentially by definition -- an unreliable source.
     
  6. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    Can you show me the specific contradictions?
     
  7. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Well, if you are having trouble with your reading skills, I'll just give you two (there are lots more):

    In the first creation story, humans are created after the other animals.
    And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:25-27
    In the second story, humans were created before the other animals.
    And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. Genesis 2:18-19 (this, of course goes on until we get a human female, and Adam suddenly "rises to attention."

    I leave it to you to take up reading for comprehension.
     
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  8. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    Exactly, That is my point precisely. There are two different creations and they both are done differently. Read the thread title. I am claiming two different creations. One happens early in earth history and the one known as the seven day creation happened later.

    You should probably work on your reading skills.

    By the way, humanist frustrate me as they want to make humans as non-human as humanly possible.:cool:
     
    #88 jhwatts, Sep 11, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
  9. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Is this in the Bible somewhere?

    Same question.
     
  10. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Interesting, but what's the evidence for this?



    .
     
  11. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Which it considers a gift from above, literally in this case. The point is, from the worm's world, all is well and God loves them. Sort of like the way we think God loves us. In fact, I'd say pretty much identically, except in a different language, of course.
     
  12. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Yes, in the beginning God gave men plants to eat.

    Gen 1:29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

    After they sinned God cursed the ground so nothing would grow for man. So man ate the animals. After the flood God removed the curse on the ground and made the animals fear man, making them harder to catch and eat.
     
  13. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    No, you have many 'Biblical connections' that suggest two different creation stories.
     
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  14. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    So, you're saying that after the Fall, human diets were meat-only? Being the omnivores that we are, we could manage that. However you would be faced with a spoilage problem, unless they figure out preservation techniques magically before they died due to a lack of any other supplemental foods.

    But the real problem here is this. What did the animals eat? How did they survive in order for Adam and Eve to hunt and kill them? Did they eat each other? They certainly couldn't eat vegetation, since you said nothing would grow. If something did grow that animals could eat, the humans could eat that too, since we are omnivores after all. So the animals would have to have eaten other animals themselves - including Adam and Eve! Soon, there would be no life at all except for the top of the food chain with nothing left below it. No animals that fed on vegetation means they'd all eat each other until there was none left except one, and that one finally died have no other animals left to eat.

    Do you honestly believe any of this you derive from your literal reading of the Bible stacks up in the face of facts? Do you know that changing how your read and understand these things is not a sin or a lack of faith, but rather the opposite?
     
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  15. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Saying we find interpretations of the Bible to be absurd is not the same as saying "the Bible is just fake". To say that literal readings of the Bible are not supported by facts, that is a scriptural debate. It's debating the absurdity of reading scripture like that.
     
  16. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    Here is what I am not suggesting but showing you. If you look at Genesis 7 you can see that there are two different types of creatures getting on the ark. They are those “after his kind” and those “wherein is the breath of life”. The Bible is clear on this distinction.

    Genesis 7: (13-15) 13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah’s wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; 14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.



    We see also the same distinction in both creation narratives. They are those “after his kind

    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.



    And those with the “the breath of life

    Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul."



    This distinction is not by chance. They are two different creations taking place here.
     
  17. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    Yes it is but it is a general debate concerning the validity of scripture but not specific to the topic of this thread and therefore has no place here.
     
    #97 jhwatts, Sep 12, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  18. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    The corresponding scripture as it relates to each creation is shown. The creation “in the likeness of God made he him” occurred during Genesis 1:1 and is not part of what most claim as the first day of creation but occurred before at some unknown length of time.

    Genesis 1:2 - Genesis 2:3 corresponds to the generations of “in the likeness of God made he him” (See Genesis 5:5) and occurs during Genesis 1:1

    Genesis 2.4 – Genesis 4:26 corresponds to the “generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created” (See Genesis 2:4) and occurs after Genesis 4:26
     
  19. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
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    Meat and forage, no agriculture, nothing would grow for them. Basically they had to live like cave men, hunter gatherers.
     
  20. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    No it is not about the "validity" of scripture. Understanding it through a modern framework is a valid reading of scripture. It absolutely has place in a debate about scripture. Reading it literally causes problems, which to me actually invalidates scripture. The literalist invalidates the Genesis story.
     
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