Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
Because they're icky.
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Animal rights
- Thread starter xkatz
- Start date
Because they're icky.
enchanted_one1975
Resident Lycanthrope
The real cruelty to animals is that we don't let them choose what kind of sauce they are eaten with. I mean, imagine if a chicken really liked BBQ sauce, yet when he became a 20 piece McNugget I ate him with Honey Mustard or Ranch instead. It just seems wrong.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
Indeed. I hope that someday people will view their relationship with society as one of obligation. Not one of rights where society owes them certain things, but one where everyone works to make society better.
I think that all sentient beings deserve moral consideration. I prefer that term to 'rights'.
I give animals moral consideration to the extent that I do not eat them and I consciousnly attempt to avoid causing them suffering. Other people give different levels of moral consideration.
I give animals moral consideration to the extent that I do not eat them and I consciousnly attempt to avoid causing them suffering. Other people give different levels of moral consideration.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
Isn't "moral consideration" a bit ambiguous?
whereismynotecard
Treasure Hunter
We are humans for the same reason cats are cats and dogs are dogs. We just are. I know lots of humans with poorly developed brains, and without kindness, mercy, sympathy, or compassion. To me "human" isn't a flattering description word. It's another species of animal. It's not necessarily a good thing to be.
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
nameless
The Creator
i agree we humans are animals like cats and dogs, but still dont you see anything special in us from all other species when it comes to ablity to occupy others emotions and thus feel compassion and sympathy towards them? We all are humans because of humaneness, characterized by kindness, mercy, sympathy, ofcourse not everyone has humane nature.
whereismynotecard
Treasure Hunter
Other species feel compassion and sympathy too. I don't have much research on it, but I'm fairly certain lots of monkeys are rather compassionate toward each other and other animals. Remember that one gorilla who had a pet kitten? Was her name Gloria? I don't remember... I don't know if Baggins has my sympathy for others... He sometimes seems interested in the pain of his peers, but not necessarily sympathetic to it...
Yes, I suppose so. But I think it's appropriate. I'm not making specific allowances about what people should be doing or thinking in regards to animals except to actually treat them with enough respect as to consider them in any situation that involves them. Too many people completely disregard them or their experiences as sentient creatures. To give moral consideration is to award them some thought, to associate moral behaviour with such creatures.
So give moral consideration. Think about how your behaviour effects them and what they are experiencing. When you've thought it through properly then make your decision based on your own subjective opinion. Too few people do this.
whereismynotecard
Treasure Hunter
Some of you people have mentioned that it's not natural for humans to eat meat, or maybe to eat as much meat as they do... but if you look at it, most things humans do are not natural things. Naturally, humans wouldn't have cars or bicycles. Naturally, humans are naked and don't go to school and have clocks which tell them when to be where. Nothing we do is natural, so why bother trying? I like eating a chicken club with no bacon, onions or sauce. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I also drive my car around and drink my water out of a pre-packaged bottle. Humans are crazy.
True, but the point of using the 'natural' argument in this context is because it relates to our health. If it is 'unnatural' to eat as much meat as we do then we are losing health. This doesn't relate to all 'unnatural' aspects of our lives.
I however do not think that eating meat is unnatural though I do understand the negative health issues related to eating too much meat and yes, most people today eat far too much meat and too few vegetables.
Yep. Altruism seems to be hardwired into primates. Frans De Waal has done extensive research on primate altruism. In his book Primates and Philosophers: How Morality Evolved he recounts how chimpanzees come to non-related primate's aid in fights including comforting them; when rhesus monkey babies cry in pain or loneliness other rhesus babies will come to their aid and attempt to soothe them. There's an experiment where 15 rhesus monkeys were shown how to obtain food by pulling a series of chains. They learned that some chains supplied more food than other chains, but as the experiment progessed, if the monkey pulled a chain that offered more food the researchers gave a mild electric shock to an innocent monkey nearby. After seeing their rhesus buddy getting shocked 10 out of 15 of them stopped pulling the chain that gave more food and only pulled the one that gave a lesser amount. Another 2 of the 15 refused to pull any chain whatsoever, actually risking starvation rather than hurt another monkey. So there were only 3 sociopathic primates out of the 15... That's fewer than most Republicans.
Primates and Philosophers: How ... - Google Books
Metalic Wings
Active Member
Okay. So, don't get me started on genocide. (I'll try to restrain myself as of right now... :yes
But I agree with the "humans don't do many things naturally" argument. And the funny thing is, that's part of being human isn't it? All of the "unnatural" things that humans have done are constantly shaping and reshaping our vague definition of "human" whether we want them to or not. Am I proud to be human? No. Am I proud because I try to make a difference in things I believe are important? Yes.
One way or the other, being human is being in a sticky situation without really having many answers to anything.
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
My uncle: "I like to hunt. I don't even like deer meat. I just like to shoot an animal in the head."
*picturing the looks of horror of some readers lol*
*picturing the looks of horror of some readers lol*
xkatz
Well-Known Member
xkatz
Well-Known Member
That type of stuff bothers me. I wouldn't mind if people hunted to help the environment or for food. But shooting an animal for pleasure I think just crosses the line. How would you or your uncle like it if you or him your shot for lulz?
Vile Atheist
Loud and Obnoxious
Your post seems to be under the impression I endorse this....
Baydwin
Well-Known Member
My philosophy is that animals have the right not to endure suffering. That doesn't extend to not killing them for a use, everything dies at some point and whether a chicken dies from slaughter or old age doesn't really make a difference to the chicken, what does make a difference to the chicken is whether or not it's forced to kneel in its own excrement for 90% of its life which causes it's knees to burn and rot away.
My diet is, I would say, 80% vegetarian with the rest made up of 18% seafood and 2% organic, free-range poultry i.e. I eat turkey at Christmas and the occasional piece of chicken.
There is the argument that killing shellfish is torture as you boil them alive, I don't agree with that as A) crustaceans and insects are essentially organic robots and as such don't process pain in the same way we do, B) boiling them alive is a lot faster and less painful than how they would die naturally in the sea as predators generally either pick them to pieces slowly or digest them alive.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.
My diet is, I would say, 80% vegetarian with the rest made up of 18% seafood and 2% organic, free-range poultry i.e. I eat turkey at Christmas and the occasional piece of chicken.
There is the argument that killing shellfish is torture as you boil them alive, I don't agree with that as A) crustaceans and insects are essentially organic robots and as such don't process pain in the same way we do, B) boiling them alive is a lot faster and less painful than how they would die naturally in the sea as predators generally either pick them to pieces slowly or digest them alive.
That pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject.