An Omnipotent & Omniscient God Cannot Exist

[Milton Platt]

If God is omnipotent, then he can't be omniscient.

If God is omniscient, then he can't be omnipotent.

Here's why:

If God is omnipotent, then he can do anything he wants. This would mean that he cannot know his future actions, as if he did, his future actions would be constrained by his knowledge of the future, since he would not be able to perform an action that he knew he would not perform. Thus, if God is omnipotent, he can't be omniscient.

If God is omniscient, then he knows everything, including all events in the future. Thus, his future actions are constrained by his knowledge of what he will do, and he cannot act contrary to his own knowledge of his own future actions. Thus, if God is omniscient, then he cannot be omnipotent.

That's it. That's the proof.

So, theists, is your god omnipotent and not omniscient, omniscient and not omnipotent, or neither omnipotent nor omniscient? Those are the only options.

Apologists realized this some time ago and repackaged the claims. Now their particular god is "maximally" powerful and "maximally" knowledgeable. Meaning as powerful and as knowledgeable as possible without becoming illogical in the process.

 

[paarsurrey]

If God is omnipotent, then he can't be omniscient.

If God is omniscient, then he can't be omnipotent.

Here's why:

If God is omnipotent, then he can do anything he wants. This would mean that he cannot know his future actions, as if he did, his future actions would be constrained by his knowledge of the future, since he would not be able to perform an action that he knew he would not perform. Thus, if God is omnipotent, he can't be omniscient.

If God is omniscient, then he knows everything, including all events in the future. Thus, his future actions are constrained by his knowledge of what he will do, and he cannot act contrary to his own knowledge of his own future actions. Thus, if God is omniscient, then he cannot be omnipotent.

That's it. That's the proof.

So, theists, is your god omnipotent and not omniscient, omniscient and not omnipotent, or neither omnipotent nor omniscient? Those are the only options.

"This would mean that he (G-d) cannot know his future actions"

Is this from science, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Seems illogical to argue logic about a being that is not constrained by the logic with which you argue.

Is logic 100% correct, please?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Jehovah is the most powerful Being in existence.....he is able to control his power to be delivered wherever it is required, in whatever measure is needed....not too much, not too little.

I have no idea why people want to put their own limitations on a limitless Being.

"I have no idea why people want to put their own limitations on a limitless Being."

I agree with one here.

Regards

 

[McBell]

Is logic 100% correct, please?

Regards

no

 

[paarsurrey]

Seems illogical to argue logic about a being that is not constrained by the logic with which you argue.

Is logic science, please?

Regards

 

[Left Coast]

If God is omnipotent, then he can't be omniscient.

If God is omniscient, then he can't be omnipotent.

Here's why:

If God is omnipotent, then he can do anything he wants. This would mean that he cannot know his future actions, as if he did, his future actions would be constrained by his knowledge of the future, since he would not be able to perform an action that he knew he would not perform. Thus, if God is omnipotent, he can't be omniscient.

If God is omniscient, then he knows everything, including all events in the future. Thus, his future actions are constrained by his knowledge of what he will do, and he cannot act contrary to his own knowledge of his own future actions. Thus, if God is omniscient, then he cannot be omnipotent.

That's it. That's the proof.

So, theists, is your god omnipotent and not omniscient, omniscient and not omnipotent, or neither omnipotent nor omniscient? Those are the only options.

I didn't read through the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been said. These arguments both seem to assume God exists within time like one of us. However, the standard classical theist God is proposed as existing outside of time. On that understanding, God's actions only appear to be past, present, or future from our perspective in time.

 

[paarsurrey]

I didn't read through the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been said. These arguments both seem to assume God exists within time like one of us. However, the standard classical theist God is proposed as existing outside of time. On that understanding, God's actions only appear to be past, present, or future from our perspective in time.

Yes, I agree with one.
Our understanding of time , space and other dimension don't fit on the Creator G-d, He is out of these dimensions, please?
Right, please?

Regards

 

[Left Coast]

Yes, I agree with one.
Our understanding of time , space and other dimension don't fit on the Creator G-d, He is out of these dimensions, please?
Right, please?

Regards

That's what I'm told, at least.

 

[paarsurrey]

That's what I'm told, at least.

So, one agrees with me, please. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Left Coast]

So, one agrees with me, please. Right, please?

Regards

Ask me in a month.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't know if this answers your question but the ideal of God would be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. The only way such a being could exist IMO would be if the only thing that was real was God. Everything other than God is a dream/illusion.

Like when you dream. What exists in the dream only "exists" during the experience of it, while you're actually dreaming. It's only when you wake that you realize none of it existed. So you're right, there is nothing to change. It's just another dream which has no more actual existence than the previous dream.

In this sense the lucid dreamer is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator of the dream. In this "reality" we experience, God is present but not awake. If God should ever wake none of this would ever have had anymore existence than the dream you had last night which you may not even remember.

" Everything other than God is a dream/illusion."

I agree with tone here. I understand that G-d has the real existence and our existence has been gifted to us by Him with a purpose. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Nakosis]

" Everything other than God is a dream/illusion."

I agree with tone here. I understand that G-d has the real existence and our existence has been gifted to us by Him with a purpose. Right, please?

Regards

Well that post was a while back but in the sense of an omnipotent God, this is the only way I'd see such an entity making sense.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't know if this answers your question but the ideal of God would be omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. The only way such a being could exist IMO would be if the only thing that was real was God. Everything other than God is a dream/illusion.

Like when you dream. What exists in the dream only "exists" during the experience of it, while you're actually dreaming. It's only when you wake that you realize none of it existed. So you're right, there is nothing to change. It's just another dream which has no more actual existence than the previous dream.

In this sense the lucid dreamer is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator of the dream. In this "reality" we experience, God is present but not awake. If God should ever wake none of this would ever have had anymore existence than the dream you had last night which you may not even remember.

Well that post was a while back but in the sense of an omnipotent God, this is the only way I'd see such an entity making sense.

Isn't life an illusion like a dream, till one wake up in the afterlife?

Regards

 

[Nakosis]

Isn't life an illusion like a dream, till one wake up in the afterlife?

Regards

I don't know. I don't have any knowledge about an afterlife, so I don't see a lot of reason to invest much belief in any particular idea about it.

 

[1213]

An Omnipotent & Omniscient God Cannot Exist

Yes He can.

 

[Willamena]

Yes He can.

I've been misquoted.

 

[1213]

I've been misquoted.

Please explain why do you think so?

I think you are wrong in your opening post. That one knows what happens, doesn’t mean that one has no freedom, it means just that one knows what is freely chosen.

 

[Sp0ckrates]

If God is omnipotent, then he can't be omniscient.

If God is omniscient, then he can't be omnipotent.

Here's why:

If God is omnipotent, then he can do anything he wants. This would mean that he cannot know his future actions, as if he did, his future actions would be constrained by his knowledge of the future, since he would not be able to perform an action that he knew he would not perform. Thus, if God is omnipotent, he can't be omniscient.

If God is omniscient, then he knows everything, including all events in the future. Thus, his future actions are constrained by his knowledge of what he will do, and he cannot act contrary to his own knowledge of his own future actions. Thus, if God is omniscient, then he cannot be omnipotent.

That's it. That's the proof.

So, theists, is your god omnipotent and not omniscient, omniscient and not omnipotent, or neither omnipotent nor omniscient? Those are the only options.

Not sure I follow you. Perhaps a simple illustration will demonstrate your point? Please give one brief example of something God doesn’t have the power to do.

 

[Willamena]

Please explain why do you think so?

I think you are wrong in your opening post. That one knows what happens, doesn’t mean that one has no freedom, it means just that one knows what is freely chosen.

I didn't write the title of this thread.

I argued against it.