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Abortions, Man's Law & God's Law

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Faithofchristian, Mar 13, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Israel was divided into three areas.. Judah, Samaria and Galilee. Judah was very envious of the other two because they were prosperous and successful.

    They demonized the "other" just like they demonized the Canaanites and now the Palestinian Arabs and Christians.
     
  2. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    It's more than just translation errors, though; there are copy errors, editing and an awful lot of pure confabulation. Very little consists of first person accounts. Very little is evidenced or verifiable. It's basically an anthology of ancient legends and folklore.
     
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  3. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
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    So you are saying abortion is OK if we know that it is the abortion that will prevent bad people. That is a strange position. Are you suggesting only abortions for the poor that are often the source of a lot of crime due to their economic situations?

    At least you are not denying the abortion part of the story now. That is a step in the right direction.
     
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  4. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    the king of Assyria which is written about in
    Isaiah chapters 10-14
    Hosea chapters 9-13.
    Revelation chapters 9,13-18
    The Assyrian king is in the likeness of the king of the bottomless pit and the beast in the chapters Revelation above.
    What the king of Assyria is doing, is in the same likeness of the king of bottomless pit and the beast of Revelation.
     
  5. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The problem is there is NO Assyria anymore AND there's no king. Are you worried about ancient history?

    Ashur was the capital city in Mesopotamia, making Assyria one of the greatest empires in the area. Ancient Assyria covered the vast majority of northern Mesopotamia. King Hammurabi of Babylon conquered Assyria after Shamshi-Adad's death, which made Assyria a vassal state. Must have been 2600 BC.. 1500 years before Genesis.
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Nope that is not what Im saying.

    As for Hosea 9:13-16,
    13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer"

    This murderer, being the king of Assyria.
    Which taken children and babies to make sacrifices in burning them in fire to his god Moloch.
    It's this king of Assyria that Ephraim turned went to, for this reason is why God turned his back on Ephraim, because the people of Ephraim turned their backs on God first.

    Then God let Ephraim go after the murderer king of Assyria. That's what the tribe of Ephraim wanted,

    14 Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

    15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

    16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb"

    The word ( smitten) in the Strong's concordance of the Hebrew Translation.
    cast forth, beaten, stricken, punish, slaughter, murderer, slay, wounded, severely,
    Their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth"

    Because of Ephraim sin against God, that whatever they plant will not produce nothing.

    Then we find God saying " yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb"

    God caused the womb to bear no children, to be barren, at conception.

    As it is God was not going to let the murderer king of Assyria kill Ephraim children in his sacrifices to his god.

    So God cause the womb to dry up that would not produce children.


    God slay the fruit of the womb,
    Meaning that God slayed the fruit of the womb to prevent the womb from producing children.

    As women carry the egg which takes the man to fertilized the egg inside of the woman.
    So by means God prevented the egg from being fertilized from producing children.

    As the fruit of the womb is the egg which the woman Carries. Which God prevents from being able to produce children..

    As there are women even to day that can't have children because the woman's egg will not take to be fertilized by the man.l
    As in some cases men can't have children, because their sperm will not produce. What is need to fertilized the woman's egg.

    So all God did is make the womb of the women eggs incapable of being fertilized.
    To produce children.
     
  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Where did I say the king of Assyria by being here.

    I said, if you paid attention that the king of Assyria in Hosea chapters 9,13, is in the likeness of the king of the bottomless pit and beast in the book of
    Revelation chapters 9,13.
     
  8. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
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    16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb"

    God has done more than that according to the verses you quote. You can see that the fruit that they do bring forth is aborted from the womb.
     
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    As for Hosea 9:11-16,
    11 As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth, and from the womb, and from the conception"

    Here in verse 11, God closed up women's reproductive organism of the womb, so that the women of Ephraim can not reproduce children from conception.

    12 Though they bring up their children, yet will I bereave them, that there shall not be a man left: yea, woe also to them when I depart from them"

    Here in verse 12, The children that the women of Ephraim already had, will bring them up to adult hood, but the women of Ephraim can not no more have children there after, because God closed up the reproductive organism of the women womb of Ephraim, So they can not reproduce children at conception.

    And Note that by God closing up the reproductive organism of the women's womb of Ephraim, That the people of Ephraim will die off at an old age, all because God closed the women's reproductive organism of the womb, so they can not reproduce children. So in time the people of Ephraim will soon die off at old age.

    This being why in the book of
    Revelation 7:4-8, The tribe of Ephraim is not mentioned, because God closed up the reproductive organism of the women womb of the tribe of Ephraim, So that the women could not reproduce children. So in time the tribe of Ephraim died off.

    13 Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.

    Here in verse 13, The Murderer here is the king of Assyria. Which would haved killed children of Ephraim before they were born and after they were born. To be used in the king of Assyria sacrifices to his god, So the God of Israel, closed up the reproductive organism of the women of the tribe Ephraim so that they could not reproduce children.

    14 Give them, O Lord: what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

    Here in verse 14, a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. Seeing that God closed up women's reproductive organism of the womb, so that the women could not reproduce children, the women's breasts would also not produce milk.

    15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

    Here in verse 15, God driven the tribe of Ephraim out, because of their wickedness, I will love them no more, This is why in the book of Revelation 7:4-8, that the tribe of Ephraim is not listed among the 12 tribes of Israel. Because in time the whole tribe of Ephraim died off as they gotten older. From not being able to reproduce children.

    16 Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.

    Here in verse 16, God saying -- "Yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb"

    Therefore God closed up the reproductive organism of the women's womb of Ephraim so that they could not reproduce children.

    The Reproductive organism of women and how it works.

    The female reproductive system provides several functions. The ovaries produce the egg cells, called the ova or oocytes. The oocytes are then transported to the fallopian tube where fertilization by a sperm may occur. The fertilized egg then moves to the uterus, where the uterine lining has thickened in response to the normal hormones of the reproductive cycle. Once in the uterus, the fertilized egg can implant into thickened uterine lining and continue to develop. If implantation does not take place, the uterine lining is shed as menstrual flow. In addition, the female reproductive system produces female sex hormones that maintain the reproductive cycle.
    During menopause, the female reproductive system gradually stops making the female hormones necessary for the reproductive cycle to work. At this point, menstrual cycles can become irregular and eventually stop. One year after menstrual cycles stop, the woman is considered to be menopausal.

    Therefore women of Ephraim can not Reproduce children. As God closed up the reproductive organism in the women's womb, So the women of Ephraim could not reproduce children at conception.

    So therefore, there were not no abortions being done, only that God closed up the reproductive organism of the women of Ephraim so they could not reproduce children at conception.
     
    #69 Faithofchristian, Mar 15, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  10. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Man's law is whatever he enacts. Wherever abortion is legal, it is man's law.

    What you call God's law is not binding on anybody. One has to volunteer to submit to biblical authority.

    And you've been told repeatedly why we are free to ignore "Thou shalt not kill." Killing is unavoidable, and beneficial under many circumstances.

    Do you know what happens to the bacteria in you when you are successfully treated for a bacterial infection? It's the bacterial equivalent of genocide.

    Irrelevant. The moral status of abortion does not depend on any word used to describe the fetus including human, human being, person, baby or child. It's either right or wrong based on the act, not semantics. It's a subjective call.

    Everybody is free to decide what vague or ambiguous language means. Nobody's opinion outranks anybody else's, although I would turn to an unbeliever before a believer if I didn't feel like reading the words and deciding myself. Unbeliever's answers are more like one another than those of believers, who feel a need to sanitize scripture with improvisations that make their answers vary between them more than that of the unbelievers

    You've been shown the scriptures. This is a fine example of what I just wrote about. You're modifying the apparent meaning of the words in the scriptures. @sooda gave you this:

    "Yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb." -- Hosea 9:16

    "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up". -- Hosea 13:16

    It says very clearly the God will slay the beloved fruit of their womb. Any English-speaking person with no anti-abortion agenda can tell you what that means, but I suspect few if any believer will tell you that the words depict God killing fetuses, sometimes along with their mothers.

    Just go find another scripture where God commands killing. When you've got a contradiction, you've a question with conflicting answers. The unbeliever stops there - there is no definite position stated in the Bible. The unbeliever, however, will try to make the contradictory statement he least likes into something that it's not..

    Nice example right here. Slaying fetuses does not mean making women infertile.

    I'd say that it's the unbelievers who seem to understand what the words say.

    Death penalty? What happened to the 6th Commandment? It doesn't apply to all life?

    I've noticed that whenever God has the choice of acting in a way that is only possible for a god, or doing what would happen anyway if there were no god, He chooses the latter.

    Is that what we should call a good god? As is always the case, it's more like no god at all.
     
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