3 dead, 6 injured in Michigan high school shooting; 15-year-old suspect in custody, authorities say

[Suave]

This is hard to analyze. Clinton band large cap mags,
but they were still available (based upon date of
manufacture). What does "ban" mean for the various
states & cities?
Gun control measures that are highly local have
effects corrupted by availability from environs
with less restriction.

Of course, the impact on mass shootings by having a well controlled population being economically prohibited from possessing a firearm with a high capacity magazine should be compared to the impact on mass shootings by firearms with high capacity magazines being widely available.

 

[ajay0]

Oxford High School shooting: 3 students dead, 6 injured, including teacher

My heart goes out to the families.

We have a problem in this country. We can clean up after the fact, voice our sorrow or raise our fist, but are there any real solutions to prevent this?

Legislation in U.S. does not seem not to be effective in preventing guns from reaching the wrong people.

Imho, it is important to address mental health issues by sound investment in this sector in terms of trained personnel and infrastructure, and also cultivate and nurture the culture of nonviolence which had been instituted and planted by Martin Luther King .

It is also high time, violent films and video games are subject to high standards of regulation, and children prevented from accessing them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think most people deep down know that this is true, but we just don't know how to classify people who think it's okay to shoot other people. Maybe we have an anger problem.

If they don't believe it why do they keep repeating it? It's an easy scape goat, and the mentally ill are stigmatized and demonized at many, many levels. Add in the fact there is a vast ocean of people who are armchair psychologists and start attaching violent behavior to what they think they know about something. So they get blamed.

 

[ajay0]

With a few serious exceptions everyone i sold guns to were responsible and stable people.

It is the 'few serious exceptions' who cause most of this trouble .

I think the vast majority of gun owners pose no threat to others. My concern is that if they were truly responsible people they would acknowledge that we need to be very discriminating about who gets guns, especially those that are typically used in mass killings.

I had a toy gun when I was a kid till it got damaged. As an awed kid, I got to handle an air gun of my uncle under supervision and that was that. Never got to touch an another gun for decades or see one in proximity.

The most I got to see guns in real life was in Hollywood movies and video games. Seeing such articles of kids accidentally shooting themselves or others, I am glad that I wore off my childhood passion for guns .

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The real question is should fire arms be in the hands of private citizens at all. Should the constitution be updated and Amended again.

What was suitable for the lawless west, is no longer suitable for a modern society.

It is unreasonable to suppose that that shootings will stop if nothing is changed.

However murders will continue at some level, as they do in all countries. But mass killings should be very much reduced.

Bombings will continue as they are a political/ religious/terroristic phenomenon.

 

[Wandering Monk]

What about the 6 dead, 40+ injured in the parade rampage caused by Darrell Brooks?

Must there be stricter automobile laws put in place and must the killing machine weapon of war known as the SUV be banned from public use?

That's a pretty pathetic argument.

 

[F1fan]

The real question is should fire arms be in the hands of private citizens at all. Should the constitution be updated and Amended again.

It should be. The 2nd amendment has a purpose that isn't relevant anymore. When I hear arguments for it the purpose of there being "a well regulated militia" isn't mentioned.

What was suitable for the lawless west, is no longer suitable for a modern society.

What I find ironic is that many gun rights advocates want the right to carry guns and the reason is for personal safety. To my mind this suggests these folks feel society is unsafe. So if society is unsafe the last thing you want is more guns without careful regulation of who has them and where they are. Many conservative talk about personal responsibility, but where is the responsibility and duty for society?

It is unreasonable to suppose that that shootings will stop if nothing is changed.

However murders will continue at some level, as they do in all countries. But mass killings should be very much reduced.

Bombings will continue as they are a political/ religious/terroristic phenomenon.

I don't see things changing if the USA keeps going towards "every man for himself".

 

[F1fan]

Legislation in U.S. does not seem not to be effective in preventing guns from reaching the wrong people.

In the shooting in Michigan the 15 year old student used the handgun that his father bought just a few days before. So the father did not secure the gun. And the parents knew their son had behavioral problems.

To my mind the father should be charged with negligence.

 

[Revoltingest]

It should be. The 2nd amendment has a purpose that isn't relevant anymore.

Many don't share your opinion.

What I find ironic is that many gun rights advocates want the right to carry guns and the reason is for personal safety. To my mind this suggests these folks feel society is unsafe.

An open society does have more safety risks than a
highly controlled one, eg, N Korea. We could indeed
have less danger from assault...but at a price many of
us would find unacceptable.
So we balance dangers stemming from self-defense capability
being mis-used vs benefits of legitimate self-defense. All
balances of these competing factors will be imperfect, BTW.

So if society is unsafe the last thing you want is more guns without careful regulation of who has them and where they are.

The problem isn't the number of guns. It's about who
has them. Are they trained? Are their guns securely stored?
Are the appropriate people denied access? Are people
who pose a danger given mental health services to reduce
the risks & costs they pose?

Many conservative talk about personal responsibility, but where is the responsibility and duty for society?

I've a bone to pick with both liberals & conservatives.

I don't see things changing if the USA keeps going towards "every man for himself".

How about "every man for himself" with
useful regulation & social services.

 

[pearl]

Are the appropriate people denied access? Are people
who pose a danger given mental health services to reduce
the risks & costs they pose?

One of the major problems, is the seemingly impossibility of Congress to agree on laws to restrict both of these.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

when people lose their rag, all restraints are off. and no amount of training is any help at all.
If a gun is available it will probably be used.

 

[Revoltingest]

when people lose their rag, all restraints are off. and no amount of training is any help at all.
If a gun is available it will probably be used.

As with all solutions, none stands alone.
Training addresses accidents, which are
caused by poor gun handling. It's useful.

 

[Heyo]

What does gun control have to do with this case? He took his dad's gun, which was a handgun. Maybe we should pass laws against stupid and inept parents.

Maybe you should pass gun control laws that require every gun owner to store their guns responsible? (I.e. in a safe, unloaded, with the ammo stored in a different safe.) You may call that a law against stupidity, I call it reasonable gun control.
Oh, and if your gun gets stolen, you are automatically considered an accessory to whatever happens with that gun.
That way you can have your gun but every illegal or irresponsible use is prevented (as far as possible).

 

[Heyo]

Well from what I observe Democrats know they can't get what they want given the strong, fervent pushback by republicans. Democrats do tend to present very moderate legislation. It often appears very leftist because the right is so FAR right that the middle has been sucked into their void.

The problem isn't pushback by the republicans, the problem is the pushback by democrats bought by the gun manufacturers. The democrats have the majority in the House and the Senate and they have the Presidency - and they had that before. They could have introduced and pushed through better gun control laws - but they didn't. Seems they can talk the talk but when it comes to doing the work, they fail.
(It's as if they aren't interested to solve the problems they talk about - because if they did, what would they talk about next election?)

 

[Heyo]

If they don't believe it why do they keep repeating it? It's an easy scape goat, and the mentally ill are stigmatized and demonized at many, many levels. Add in the fact there is a vast ocean of people who are armchair psychologists and start attaching violent behavior to what they think they know about something. So they get blamed.

For most sane people it is inconceivable that a mass shooter could have had a logical reason for his action, thus, he must have been mentally ill, at least in the moment.
The reverse conclusion, that mentally ill people are violent is your straw man unless you can show that it is held by a majority or at least significant minority.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Another school shooting that will result in Republicans doing nothing. Look for the NRA to try to cash in on this because "liberals be coming for your guns".

And look for the left to use it as an excuse to try and impose more restrictions on law abiding gun owners.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I doubt most anybody legitimately needs to have a firearm loaded with more than six bullets. I'd like the private ownership of large capacity magazines, specifically those that could be loaded with more than 6 rounds of ammo, be effectively banned by there being a hefty tax and national registry imposed on the private owners of large capacity magazines. I'm confident this common sense gun control measure will result in fewer mass shootings.

Large magazines don't cause mass shootings and banning something that a criminal will still use is pointless.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For most sane people it is inconceivable that a mass shooter could have had a logical reason for his action, thus, he must have been mentally ill, at least in the moment.
The reverse conclusion, that mentally ill people are violent is your straw man unless you can show that it is held by a majority or at least significant minority.

The issue is the majority of those with a mental illness are non violent and far more likely to be the victims of violence than a perpetrator of violence.
But every time there is a mass shooting in the news everyone points the finger at mental illness. This feeds into the collective stigmatization and demonization of mental illness.
If people didn't really believe it this nonsense of blaming them for violence in such ways wouldn't happen.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As with all solutions, none stands alone.
Training addresses accidents, which are
caused by poor gun handling. It's useful.

This can't be emphasized enough. I was starting to be friends with a guy years ago who accidentally killed himself with gun ignorance.
I forget where but a lady had a gun in her purse, infant and purse both in the seat area of a shopping cart. The baby got the gun and accidentally shot mom.
One guy sat his gun down on his kitchen counter while he made a sandwich. His cat jumps on the counter, paws at the gun, and accidentally shot the guy.
And then the people hurt in "pranks" by "friends" who talk them into shooting something way too powerful. Or killed by double taps.
Uncle Ben really needs to be the face of guns, because they are a great power that requires great responsibility.

 

[Suave]

Large magazines don't cause mass shootings and banning something that a criminal will still use is pointless.

States which had banned high-capacity magazines had a substantially lower incidence of mass shootings, as well as far fewer fatalities in mass shootings. .

Klarevas, Louis; Conner, Andrew; Hemenway, David (2019-10-17). "The Effect of Large-Capacity Magazine Bans on High-Fatality Mass Shootings, 1990–2017". American Journal of Public Health. 109 (12): e1–e8. doi:10.2105/AJPH.2019.305311. ISSN 0090-0036. PMC 6836798. PMID 31622147.

New Research on Mass Shootings: Banning Large-Capacity Magazines Substantially Lowers Fatalities