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I don't think Reincarnation Makes Much Sense
- Thread starter DharmaCatLamp
- Start date
Yerda
Veteran Member
I think the drive to believe in reincarnation is the same one that drives belief in heaven. People want to believe that they will be rewarded for the good they do. And the baddies will be punished. They can't (or won't) imagine consciousness just ceasing. They want to see their loved ones again in the next life. It's just wishful thinking, imo.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I think people pick up false and inaccurate memories , a common phenomenon.
I have them as well , but since I can't ever verify or prove them, I can't say weither it's true or not. The fact that brain generated memory isn't exactly the most reliable. I generally vouch for the latter.
I see one big difference between the two, that you may not have noticed. In heaven/hell, it's the individual person that is rewarded or punished. In reincarnation, that individual person of a single lifetime is dead, gone, kaput, as it is the soul that moves on. So yes, in heaven/hell view there is attachment to the ego, but not to in reincarnation. Of course there are some people who think it's the person that reincarnates, but that's not the traditional understanding. Those folks often think they will be the same gender, have the same interests, etc.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Conceptually the genetic aspects of evolution, imply the same things as does reincarnation. When we breed, our DNA is transferred to the next generation; next life via our DNA. While our DNA came to us from the previous generations.
This genetic reincarnation of our essence, can be traced backwards to before humans; apes, and to the future when humans undergo their own type of change, which makes them better than modern human. If the Buddha said he was in touch with many past lives this means he was aware of genetic content that came from his deepest evolutionary past than can be translated by the brain; inner self.
Not all people will have natural selective advantages. While many who do often do not make the most of their natural gifts. In the case of humans, the poor, sick and even the mean spirited can still breed and pass genes forward. But to be on the cusp of evolution and natural selection, in the future, our transferred genes from this life, need to better optimize by the next generation; in the next life.
Sometimes the ancients knew the gists of modern science before science, since the brain has been part of evolution and can reflect these history of memories to consciousness.
This genetic reincarnation of our essence, can be traced backwards to before humans; apes, and to the future when humans undergo their own type of change, which makes them better than modern human. If the Buddha said he was in touch with many past lives this means he was aware of genetic content that came from his deepest evolutionary past than can be translated by the brain; inner self.
Not all people will have natural selective advantages. While many who do often do not make the most of their natural gifts. In the case of humans, the poor, sick and even the mean spirited can still breed and pass genes forward. But to be on the cusp of evolution and natural selection, in the future, our transferred genes from this life, need to better optimize by the next generation; in the next life.
Sometimes the ancients knew the gists of modern science before science, since the brain has been part of evolution and can reflect these history of memories to consciousness.
I'm honestly not sure of what is meant by reincarnation in most contexts, particularly Hindu ones.
Kardecist spiritists have a particularly odd, self-contradictory conception of the term.
Myself, I don't see how persistence of a sense of self after death could be anything more or better than a haunting by a ghost.
It is very clear to me that "who we are" is far too complex a question and relies on way too many circunstances for the idea of reincarnation to make much sense. If it happened, we would have a very different society and significantly different challenges. Among them, how to make the old minds learn better.
Kardecist spiritists have a particularly odd, self-contradictory conception of the term.
Myself, I don't see how persistence of a sense of self after death could be anything more or better than a haunting by a ghost.
It is very clear to me that "who we are" is far too complex a question and relies on way too many circunstances for the idea of reincarnation to make much sense. If it happened, we would have a very different society and significantly different challenges. Among them, how to make the old minds learn better.
The part that seems the most ridiculous to me is the idea that we have a "soul" that survives beyond our death in some literal way.
To me, the idea that this soul could jump from individual to individual (human or otherwise) seems a much smaller hurdle to clear than the first one.
In fact, I think that in most cases, once someone has taken as given all the magic poofing needed to accept the idea of incorporeal-but-literal souls that survive our deaths but are still "us" somehow, accepting reincarnation probably shouldn't require clearing any mental hurdles at all.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
It makes sense but this doesn't make it necessarily true.
I think prehuman souls are supposed to progress gradually and automatically (without conscious descissions) to the next step.
Actually, your objections to the theory of reincarnation don't make any sense to me. Just because a Buddha story about a hundred thousand past lives may have been an exaggeration, it does not refute the theory. Also reincarnation in Hinduism does not involve non-humans (it does in Buddhism), most Hindus believe that reincarnation means being reborn as a human. Reincarnation together with Karma explains a lot about the suffering on Earth and why some people are poor and others are rich (karma from past lives). In you disregard the Buddha story as hyperbole, what other aspects of reincarnation don't make sense to you?
Why should I believe that anything I do matters in the face of society with its coldness and its hypocrisies?
Almost every child who hears about reincarnation asks "So what is the point of reincarnating if I won't remember anything?" This is the reward point of view. The short answer is bad news: You will get no reward for doing more than anyone else does, but few parents teach their children to be maximally selfish. They usually teach them to act like there is some kind of reward for being unselfish.
I've met adults who are not taught to value acts of goodness on its own. They don't fit in well in society. Their parents do them a disservice. It affects themselves and how they view themselves and undermines them.
Is the short answer what you are going to teach your children? No, for their own good you will likely teach them to pitch in with other people and to value society and to value good actions even when no one is looking. How will you do this? You will probably fix upon some explanation or another whether it makes sense or not. Whatever they'll believe that will get them to value good actions, you'll say. Maybe you can come up with something better than reincarnation, but if you can't you'll probably use it.
It doesn't explain why some are rich and some are poor though.
The first humans to have existed were those who lived, suffered and died. Some of them were more well off and others less well off.
Since wealth and poverty occurred amongst the first humans we need another explanation for why some prospered relatively while others suffered relatively.
The answer is largely due to genetics and suitability to the environment, and with this answer reincarnation becomes a superseded unwarranted additional assumption and Occam's razor applies.
In my opinion.
Do rich and poor have that much to do with the quality of one's life? Musk and Trump come to mind. Do they look happy to you?
I was answering @soulsurvivor 's claim that reincarnation explains poverty and wealth (and suffering).
Poverty and wealth (and suffering) can be explained entirely by natural causes, no spirit required.
Sure there can be unhappy wealthy people though.
In my opinion.
Okay sorry, I took your first sentence out of context, in my browsing.
First, I find nothing in science to support reincarnation, or what scientific principle can support reincarnation.
Second, it takes two people to make one person, then that one person needs another person to make one person.
Third, what happens then to the 50% of the other person, or how does one person be 100% by leaving one out.
Forth, I wonder what Law stands for 'double jeopardy' as being justice.
Fifth, without knowing what past act a person is being punished, how can one repent and improve on the unknown.
I concur with the first part, but find the rest of it confusing as heck.
Yes, how can two people or two souls pro-create to make one soul out of two.
Souls aren't created by people. Physical bodies are though. I will give up now. No point.
I never said ' souls ' were created by people. I don't believe that.
Where do the physical bodies get their bodiless soul.
Two physical bodies have a physical child where does the physical child's soul come from.
Not from the father, not from the mother but where.
Before physical people were on Earth where did their bodiless souls come from.
Where did the first person on Earth get a bodiless soul.
Interesting questions. I would also like to know, are all beings reincarnated? How this all started? Did all beings just appear at one point of time and then the cycle started?