I need to rant

[GardenLady]

My son, who is now an evangelical, belongs to a church in which they live by the Christianity of St Paul.

This is something I have observed among a number of people of my acquaintance who belong to evangelical churches. So many positions that come from Paul but are inconsistent with the words of Jesus. Words like, "Judge not lest you be judged." and "Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone." and "I am gentle and humble of spirit and you will find peace for your soul."

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I always try to avoid bringing anything religious or political into the conversation, sometimes it seems it just can't be avoided, and raises its ugly head anyway.

Jesus of course was politically neutral and so where his 1st-century followers; they did Not even get involved in the 'issues of the day' between the Jews verses the Romans.
However, Jesus gave all of his followers the responsibility to tell others about the 'good news of God's kingdom' (thy kingdom come ....) to tell others according to Jesus' instructions found at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
Good News as found at Daniel 2:44 that God's government through Jesus will take control over Earth.
- 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

 

[URAVIP2ME]

....... So many positions that come from Paul but are inconsistent with the words of Jesus. Words like, "Judge not lest you be judged." and "Let him among you who is without sin cast the first stone." and "I am gentle and humble of spirit and you will find peace for your soul."

Help, as I don't understand the ^ above ^. Please explain.
Jesus was speaking about 'personal judgement' of others. We are Not to impute a bad or wrong motive to others.
Jesus to me was Not saying we should judge God's judgement as recorded in Scripture as being wrong.
As far as cast the first stone - remember the first 11 verses of John chapter 8 were KJV added on verses.
Where does Jesus say he was Not gentle nor humble nor would Not find peace for your soul __________
Or post where Paul disagrees with what Jesus said ____________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Peace can be achieved by giving in to an aggressor or by subduing an aggressor. The question is, peace on whose terms?

Interesting question ^ above ^ because Jesus gave instructions about peace on his terms at Matthew 26:52.
Christian peace is without literal armor but with spiritual armor - Ephesians 6:11-17
Christian warfare is Not carnal, Not fleshly - 2 Corinthians 10:4
Vengeance is God's - Romans 12:19

 

[pearl]

Jesus of course was politically neutral and so where his 1st-century followers;

This is true but, being this is the 21 cent there are questions never envisioned by 1st century followers.

However, Jesus gave all of his followers the responsibility to tell others about the 'good news of God's kingdom' (thy kingdom come ....) to tell others according to Jesus' instructions found at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.

When it comes to the politics of it there is a division between acting and preaching. Protecting the life of the unborn is but the first step in pro-life. The Good News must be shared not only by word but be tangible.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This is true but, being this is the 21 cent there are questions never envisioned by 1st century followers.
When it comes to the politics of it there is a division between acting and preaching. Protecting the life of the unborn is but the first step in pro-life. The Good News must be shared not only by word but be tangible.

Under the Constitution of the Mosaic Law the life of the unborn was pro-life.
To deliberately injure a pregnant woman was a capital offence.
We are Not under the Mosaic Law as you know, but under secular law.
The 'good news' is that Christians obey -> God as ruler - Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
That does Not give Christians the right to interfere with 'Caesar'.
Christians actively tell others about the 'good news of God's kingdom' as Jesus instructed - Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
That active preaching and teaching - see Matthew 28:18-20 - would inform others that abortion for selfish reasons is wrong and that to abort just because of an unwanted child is a High Crime in God's eyes.
Then, the moral decision is between the person and God to choose to obey God.
Many think the pro-life people should tangibly be held responsible for the care of all the un-wanted children.

 

[pearl]

Many think the pro-life people should tangibly be held responsible for the care of all the un-wanted children.

Exactly. In Catholic terms it is referred to as 'social justice'. More importantly, responsible for both child and mother to have what is needed for the future of both. If it is within one's circumstance to adopt, foster etc there is a responsibility to do that. Point is the same government responsible for ending abortion, must also take responsibility for assuring assistance to feed, cloth, house, health, educate, a quality of life, not mere existence. And again that's where the political parties are divided.

Also in Matthew are the 'Whatsoever you do unto the least.......'

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Exactly. In Catholic terms it is referred to as 'social justice'. More importantly, responsible for both child and mother to have what is needed for the future of both. If it is within one's circumstance to adopt, foster etc there is a responsibility to do that. Point is the same government responsible for ending abortion, must also take responsibility for assuring assistance to feed, cloth, house, health, educate, a quality of life, not mere existence. And again that's where the political parties are divided.
Also in Matthew are the 'Whatsoever you do unto the least.......'

Thank you pearl for your reply. I'm thinking you got your posted name from Matthew 13:46 ______
Matthew 25:40 comes to mind because it is Not about the figurative humble 'sheep' but about Jesus' spiritual brothers.
Spiritual brothers who are alive on Earth at Jesus' coming Glory Time found at Matthew 25:31-33.
To me those spiritual brothers are the ones being ministered to by the 'sheep' - Hebrews 6:10.
The 'sheep' are placed different from Jesus' brothers. The 'sheep' do righteous or kind acts for Jesus' brothers.
Jesus will declare the names of the 'sheep' to his spiritual brothers - Hebrews 2:11-12
Jesus' brothers - Hebrews 3:1 - have the heavenly calling are like the ones mentioned at Luke 22:28-30.
These 'brothers' are the holy ones or saints like the ones mentioned at Daniel 7:18.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

........ And again that's where the political parties are divided.............

Yes, and I suppose division too because the tax payer is Not having a say as to how their money should be spent..
Of course government is necessary to maintain law and order in human society.
Christians obey secular law as long as obeying does Not require sin against God - Acts of the Apostles 5:29.
In other words, we are to be in a 'relative' position to God's 'absolute' position.
In the world today voting is often almost a 50/50 split so if one is on one side then the other side of voting people one has as their enemy.
Jesus did not try to change government in his day.
When the people wanted Jesus to hold political office Jesus simply ran away - see John 6:15 & John 18:36; John 17:16
Since Jesus did Not want to hold political office (king) then why would he instruct his followers to do otherwise.
To meddle with the secular political helps to divide people. Even sincere people who can't solve the problems.
Jesus kept his followers informed but Not to the point to get involved to operate in governmental affairs.
The work Jesus gave was Not political but 'spiritual' to tell others about God's kingdom being the solution.
God's kingdom standards is what a Christian explains, and how God's standards are followed in a Christian's life.
So, whether a secular law is: enacted, repealed or changed a Christian doesn't pressure others to agree.
By not pressuring then a Christian can speak to all others about the good news of God's Kingdom (Daniel 2:44) just as Jesus instructed his followers to do at Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Those who listen about God's kingdom (thy kingdom come) then will take up the Christian view as their life style.

 

[pearl]

Those who listen about God's kingdom (thy kingdom come) then will take up the Christian view as their life style.

We are living in the time of the 'now but not yet' of the Kingdom, as it was inaugurated with Jesus, 'the Kingdom of God is upon you', but not yet fully realized. As far as the 'Christian in the marketplace' is concerned, its a question of identity, is one a Christian, who happens to live in the United States or is one an American the happens to be Christian, or....?

To meddle with the secular political helps to divide people.

Yes, it does. That's the nature of a democracy, as opposed to a theocracy. I am reminded of the place of conscience according to Pius XII;
"The conscience is the innermost and most secret nucleus of man. There he withdraws with his intellectual capacities into complete separation, alone with himself or better, alone with God, whose voice echoes in his conscience. There he decides over good or bad."

 

[URAVIP2ME]

We are living in the time of the 'now but not yet' of the Kingdom, as it was inaugurated with Jesus, 'the Kingdom of God is upon you', but not yet fully realized. As far as the 'Christian in the marketplace' is concerned, its a question of identity, is one a Christian, who happens to live in the United States or is one an American the happens to be Christian, or....?
Yes, it does. That's the nature of a democracy, as opposed to a theocracy. I am reminded of the place of conscience according to Pius XII;
"The conscience is the innermost and most secret nucleus of man. There he withdraws with his intellectual capacities into complete separation, alone with himself or better, alone with God, whose voice echoes in his conscience. There he decides over good or bad."

Yes, we are living in the Kingdom of the Son. Transferred to the kingdom of His beloved Son - Colossians 1:13
So, since Pentecost Jesus is head of the Christian congregation and rescues from spiritual darkness.
Pentecost the start of the New covenant being now the center of 'spiritual Israel' (Not national fleshly Israel ).
This kingdom is thus different from the 'heavenly' Messianic Kingdom. The spiritual kingdom now on Earth is different from the kingdom we pray for to come. ('Thy kingdom come...' is the kingdom of Daniel 2:44-45 to come )
So, Jesus still waits to take up full kingly power over the Earth - Psalms 110
Christians live in all countries and island nations, so to Not be neutral would divide Christians.

Democracy is people rule whereas Theocracy is God Rule.
No, Not the modern-day definition of theocracy as being ruled by clergy or rule by clergy class.
But God's theocratic government is: Jesus as King of God's Kingdom for a thousand years - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26.

Yes, one's Bible-trained conscience is a good guide, but the Bible is the Manuel to follow as to what is good or bad.
In other words, Jiminy Cricket of 'Let your conscience be your guide' can be wrong of faulty.
Who'd want the conscience of a serial killer ________
Since the imperfect heart is imperfect - Jeremiah 17:9 - then the imperfect heart can urge us to do something but like a traitor within us after we do it the imperfect heart can give us all the reasons why we should Not have done what we did in the first place.

 

[pearl]

Democracy is people rule whereas Theocracy is God Rule.

It is more that 'a' particular religion rules. As far as conscience is concerned, God knows the heart. Only God knows who will be saved.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes, it does. That's the nature of a democracy, as opposed to a theocracy. I am reminded of the place of conscience according to Pius XII;

How does a theocracy not divide?

 

[pearl]

How does a theocracy not divide?

Unless all are of one religion, it does.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is more that 'a' particular religion rules. As far as conscience is concerned, God knows the heart. Only God knows who will be saved.

I am wondering if you have the illustration in mind found at Matthew 25:31-33 ____________
Jesus as King decides who is a humble figurative 'sheep' or a haughty 'goat'.
So, at this coming Harvest Time of Separation on Earth the figurative 'sheep' are sealed and so are the 'goats'.
Up to this coming time we all have the opportunity to ' repent ' so as Not to 'perish' (meaning be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Unless all are of one religion, it does.

The ^ above ^ reminds me that only Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
The right religious way, the religious truth, and Life Eternal comes through Jesus.
This is a reason why we are all invited to pray the invitation to God for Jesus to come ! - Rev. 22:20,2

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It is more that 'a' particular religion rules. As far as conscience is concerned, God knows the heart. Only God knows who will be saved.

Yes, who'd want the conscience of a serial killer ________
Yes, God knows the heart according to Jeremiah 17:9 that the heart is treacherous.
Those who freely choose to ' repent ' can be saved ( delivered/ rescued ) - 2 Peter 3:9; Matthew 24:13

 

[pearl]

Jesus as King decides who is a humble figurative 'sheep' or a haughty 'goat'.

My son can quote Scripture more easily than can I. People of faith can and do have differences as to applying that faith in everyday life. There are religious differences but the underlying faith is really not all that different.

The right religious way, the religious truth, and Life Eternal comes through Jesus.

For Christians, yes, thats not to say that other religions, though a different path, are not in a valid covenant with God, and are 'saved' through Jesus.

 

[GardenLady]

Jesus as King decides who is a humble figurative 'sheep' or a haughty 'goat'.

Curious why you choose to add words to this scripture. The bible does not say the sheep are humble or the goats are haughty.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Curious why you choose to add words to this scripture. The bible does not say the sheep are humble or the goats are haughty.

Thank you for bringing the ^above^ to my attention.
Please help me as to which words you would use to describe the figurative 'sheep' and 'goats' of Matthew 25:31-46