I need to rant

[URAVIP2ME]

My son stopped in yesterday, always love to see and visit with him.
Our of the blue he asked what I thought of Governor DeSantis and that was the beginning of the end of a lovely visit. Politically we are on the opposite sides. To makes matters worse of course the topic of abortion raised its ugly head, and all hell broke loose. My oldest daughter, who lives with us, had an abortion when she was 17. She was experiencing seizures and was on medication the doctor considered unsafe for the baby. I did not know she was pregnant. My son, who is now an evangelical, belongs to a church in which they live by the Christianity of St Paul. Jesus said he came, 'not to bring peace on earth, but division; even in one’s own household, two against three and three against two.' All this leaves me, a mother who loves all her children, in the middle.

First of all, Jesus was speaking about being: religiously divided.
A family member decides to become a Christian and the family is often opposed.
In Scripture abortion is only a High Crime if the sole purpose is to just get rid of an unwanted child.
Abortion is between man and God. It is a moral issue and Not supposed to be a political issue.
Jesus and his followers were always: politically neutral.
They did Not take sides even in the issues of the day between the Jews verses the Romans.
Jesus only advocated God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44; Luke 4:43) and instructed his followers to do the same Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am sorry to hear that.
It is also unfortunate that he took the position of quoting "not to bring peace but division" because he also said "Blessed are the peacemakers". Both are correct and, imv, in this case he was wrong in its application.
All I can say is our prayers are with you and your prayers will make all the difference in the world. And God loves your daughter!

Well said ^ above^. An informative post.
Besides Matthew 5:9 I find at Hebrews 12:14 beloved Paul (2 Peter 3:15) wrote we are to pursue peace with all people...
At 2 Peter 3:14 B Peter wrote to be found in peace.....
James 3:18 says the fruit of righteousness is sown in peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.

 

[Kenny]

Well said ^ above^. An informative post.
Besides Matthew 5:9 I find at Hebrews 12:14 beloved Paul (2 Peter 3:15) wrote we are to pursue peace with all people...
At 2 Peter 3:14 B Peter wrote to be found in peace.....
James 3:18 says the fruit of righteousness is sown in peaceful conditions for those who are making peace.

thank you for citing scriptures of support!

 

[blü 2]

My son stopped in yesterday, always love to see and visit with him. He just returned from Florida, Disneyworld.
Our of the blue he asked what I thought of Governor DeSantis and that was the beginning of the end of a lovely visit. Politically we are on the opposite sides. To makes matters worse of course the topic of abortion raised its ugly head, and all hell broke loose. My oldest daughter, who lives with us, had an abortion when she was 17. She was experiencing seizures and was on medication the doctor considered unsafe for the baby. I did not know she was pregnant. My son, who is now an evangelical, belongs to a church in which they live by the Christianity of St Paul. Jesus said he came, 'not to bring peace on earth, but division; even in one’s own household, two against three and three against two.' All this leaves me, a mother who loves all her children, in the middle.

Screw Paul.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

It's obviously implied that he instigated a confrontation regarding his sister's abortion; i.e. "all hell broke loose". What else could it mean?

The OP never even claims that the sister was present.

And even if he disagreed with his sister's decision - that doesn't mean he was being anything but a loving brother - and he should be welcome in his parent's home.

The stance you are taking is the one the OP was trying to blame on the Lord Jesus Christ - that there would be division - yet you would be the one fulfilling that prophecy - not the believer and not the Lord Jesus Christ.

Family members disagree and argue all the time - I certainly do with my older brother who disagrees with me about everything - but neither of us is "unwelcome" - because we are reasonable people who love each other.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But, at the same time, sometimes you just have to accept what you can't change.

Why would adherence to nazi ideology be something that can't be changed?

Sure, question and challenge these views but ultimately you can't sacrifice yourself

I guess that's where the main difference lies.
My kids, wife and parents, as well as the relationships between us all, are far more important to me then my own comfort.

Such as losing it to the point of yelling and throwing things. He can get the 14 Words tattooed across his face, and throwing things is child abuse or assualt and battery depending on the age.

Why do you assume I would throw glasses at a child? I never said such.
What I said there was just an expression. Don't take it too literally - and most certainly don't take it as violence towards children. It's just a mental image to express heated argument.

And do you want to confirm the world doesn't understand and just hates them or show your son the error of his ways with love and compassion?

I literally stated in the post you are replying to that it would be about making clear that hatred has no place in a good life.

 

[pearl]

And from there you might just not bring up such topics, or answer shortly and shallowly if you'd rather avoid such things for family get-togethers.

I always try to avoid bringing anything religious or political into the conversation, sometimes it seems it just can't be avoided, and raises its ugly head anyway.

 

[pearl]

Always extra-tragic imo when faith-based mumbo jumbo drives a split within families upto the point where it can potentially break them apart.

And especially when within the same faith, although different expressions of it.

 

[KWED]

One does not live in peace by creating conflict.

Peace can be achieved by giving in to an aggressor or by subduing an aggressor.
The question is, peace on whose terms?

 

[pearl]

But I do have....

Brought a smile, thanks.

 

[pearl]

best wishes in your journey, sorry you had a pothole/bump in the road.

Thanks, I hope it is just a 'bump'.

 

[Fool]

Thanks, I hope it is just a 'bump'.

Just keep reminding yourself that neither to the left nor to the right, because nothing is all black or white. Love is the way.

 

[pearl]

Sorry - this may be an unnecessary detail - but it sounds like your daughter took medication that she needed - and that this medication killed her unborn baby.

She was taking medication to control seizures, and the doctor advised her to have the abortion because this particular medication would be harmful to the development of the fetus, so it was clearly an abortion.

Anyways - it sounds like your son is worried about you - trying to point you in the same direction he is going.

He has been wanting me to join his church for years.

What exactly do you guys disagree on?

Anything political. He is a Trump supporter, anti-vaccine etc., and far right politically. Our disagreement is not on abortion itself but for me the aftermath of the expected death of RvW. That republicans, judging by history, are not willing to provide the support in way of benefits for the woman or child necessary for any quality of life but seek to eliminate many of the so-called entitlement benefits.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

She was taking medication to control seizures, and the doctor advised her to have the abortion because this particular medication would be harmful to the development of the fetus, so it was clearly an abortion.

Clearly. I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to weigh in.

Was your daughter a minor at the time?

He has been wanting me to join his church for years.

Most likely out of love and sense of devotion to you - right?

Do you believe his intentions are malicious?

Anything political. He is a Trump supporter, anti-vaccine etc., and far right politically.

Anti-all-vaccines or just anti-COVID-vaccine or anti-vaccine mandates?

What do you consider to be "far right"?

Our disagreement is not on abortion itself but for me the aftermath of the expected death of RvW.

Ok - so you agree with your son about abortion itself?

I assume he doesn't like it.

That republicans, judging by history, are not willing to provide the support in way of benefits for the woman or child necessary for any quality of life but seek to eliminate many of the so-called entitlement benefits.

It is bad policy to reward irresponsible behavior and is anyone really "entitled" to benefits?

I do believe you are mischaracterizing "Republicans" though - or rather conservatives - because we firmly believe in helping others in need - we just do not believe that it is the role of the government to force people to help others.

It is proven that conservatives give more of their personal time, money, talent, etc to charitable causes - rather than liberals who just want to throw other people's money (the taxpayers) at the problem.

 

[pearl]

Was your daughter a minor at the time?

No, she was 17. She is now 57 and has felt remorse all these years. She has three sons and often expresses, concerning the abortion, 'it could have been my daughter'.

Most likely out of love and sense of devotion to you - right?

Do you believe his intentions are malicious?

Yes, and no.

Anti-all-vaccines or just anti-COVID-vaccine or anti-vaccine mandates?

Covid and flu

What do you consider to be "far right"?

If its not on Fox etc is fake news.

Ok - so you agree with your son about abortion itself?

He is anti-abortion, single issue, regardless of other life issues, whereas I am pro-life concerning all life issues from conception to death and every stage in between.

I do believe you are mischaracterizing "Republicans" though - or rather conservatives - because we firmly believe in helping others in need - we just do not believe that it is the role of the government to force people to help others.

Reminds me of George HW's 'thousand points of light' concerning private charity. My son and daughter-in-law both live up to their charitable mission. But I believe it takes more than private charity to reach a greater number of people.
My son's anti-abortion position was not driven by religion or politics but by the miracle of life he experienced at his own son's birth, long before his religious or political affiliation. They were not married, and my now daughter-in-law went away for a few weeks trying to decide what to do. He was so worried he saw a lawyer to ascertain his parental rights if any. After witnessing the birth of his son he called me, could barely speak through the tears of joy at this miracle. So, I do understand where he is coming from.

 

[Valjean]

I always try to avoid bringing anything religious or political into the conversation, sometimes it seems it just can't be avoided, and raises its ugly head anyway.

But aren't conversations that don't involve religion or politics usually superficial and insipid; meaningless small-talk?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

We've had to create a few ultimatums in our family. Even my mom, who is very intentionally neutral, told my grandfather that if he didn't stop using racial epithets around us, she wouldn't be bringing us over. In my opinion every time you place a boundary it creates conflict. Literally a challenge line. But that doesn't mean boundaries aren't necessary. The trick is figuring out which boundaries are necessary and which ones you'll respect or walk away from.

 

[BilliardsBall]

My son stopped in yesterday, always love to see and visit with him. He just returned from Florida, Disneyworld.
Our of the blue he asked what I thought of Governor DeSantis and that was the beginning of the end of a lovely visit. Politically we are on the opposite sides. To makes matters worse of course the topic of abortion raised its ugly head, and all hell broke loose. My oldest daughter, who lives with us, had an abortion when she was 17. She was experiencing seizures and was on medication the doctor considered unsafe for the baby. I did not know she was pregnant. My son, who is now an evangelical, belongs to a church in which they live by the Christianity of St Paul. Jesus said he came, 'not to bring peace on earth, but division; even in one’s own household, two against three and three against two.' All this leaves me, a mother who loves all her children, in the middle.

Knowledge mixed with love is powerful. Just yesterday I invited someone in the exact same situation in Florida to say, "Honey, let's read the BILL/LAW together (not just what The Times says the law says) and then let's discuss it as you talk and I LISTEN." The bill wasn't "Don't say gay!" it was "Don't say anything to children 8 and under!" which seems more than reasonable, it seems WISE.

 

[pearl]

But aren't conversations that don't involve religion or politics usually superficial and insipid; meaningless small-talk?

No, there are many conversations that do not involve politics etc. But the key word here is 'conversation', it requires listening as well. We would have our differences on immigration, homosexuality, religion etc.

 

[pearl]

The bill wasn't "Don't say gay!" it was "Don't say anything to children 8 and under!" which seems more than reasonable, it seems WISE.

This is exactly one of the subjects that came up and what my son was referring to, as he clarified the same bill. And I must agree with that. There is a town here where someone has made a small bookcase and called it a 'little library' that is free for anyone to take the books. Almost every night those opposed steal all the books. It turns out these little books are all about genders and they are children's 'picture' books!