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Proof of Islam?

Duncan

Member
Can you post some of those sayings/traditions of the Prophet Muhammad?

There are plenty of saying about Jesus peace be upon him, but I guess the one that interest you are the one regarding his coming back. there is this authentique saying of Muhammed peace be upon him regarding the Messiah returns to lead the believers:

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “How will you be when the son of Mary descends upon you while your leader is among you?”

In another narration, the Prophet said, “How will you be when the son of Mary descends upon you and leads you?”

Another one where the Messiah returns to establish law of Islam:


Jabir ibn Abdullah reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Jesus the son of Mary, peace and blessings be upon him, will descend and the Muslim leader will say: Come lead us in prayer. Jesus will say: No, some of you are leaders over others, as Allah has honored this nation.”
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Wrong, the same Jesus peace be upon him will come back , the same son of Mary...
.... He will rule by God’s Law as taught by Muhammad (i.e. Islam), may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, until he dies at the age of about 70 or 75.
Of all the things in this post which demonstrates you have not applied the slightest skepticism to your own religion this is the standout.

If the same Jesus that was born 2000+ years ago where to return, His age would obviously be over 2000+ years, and thus it would not be possible for Him to die at 75, but thanks for letting me ROFL really badly at the incompetence of Islam to do maths as basic as counting
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
So I have a single framework, that there is only God and God generates and animates all experience and everything within it:

67:19
Have they not seen the birds above them spreading out their wings and closing them? Naught upholdeth them save the Beneficent. Lo! He is Seer of all things.

3:19
Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Surrender. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in account.

BHAGAVAD GITA
18.61-18.71:
The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.
O scion of Bharata, surrender unto Him utterly. By His grace you will attain transcendental peace and the supreme and eternal abode.
Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do.
Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit.
Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
This confidential knowledge may not be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.
For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.
There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than such, nor will there ever be one more dear.
And I declare that he who studies this sacred conversation worships Me by his intelligence.
And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from sinful reaction and attains to the planets where the pious dwell.

TEXT 61
isvarah sarva-bhutanam
hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati
bhramayan sarva-bhutani
yantrarudhani mayaya
isvarah—the Supreme Lord; sarva-bhutanam—of all living entities; hrd-dese—in the location of the heart; arjuna—O Arjuna;tisthati—resides; bhramayan—causing to travel; sarva-bhutani—all living entities;yantra—machine; arudhani—being so placed; mayaya—under the spell of material energy.
The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy.

TEXT 62
tam eva saranam gaccha
sarva-bhavena bharata
tat-prasadat param santim
sthanam prapsyasi sasvatam
tam—unto Him; eva—certainly; saranam—surrender; gaccha—go; sarva-bhavena—in all respects; bharata—O son of Bharata; tat-prasadat—by His grace; param—transcendental; santim—peace; sthanam—abode; prapsyasi—you will get; sasvatam—eternal.
O scion of Bharata, surrender unto Him utterly. By His grace you will attain transcendental peace and the supreme and eternal abode.

TEXT 63
iti te jnanam akhyatam
guhyad guhyataram maya
vimrsyaitad asesena
yathecchasi tatha kuru
iti—thus; te—unto you; jnanam—knowledge; akhyatam—described; guhyat—confidential; guhyataram—still more confidential; maya—by Me; vimrsya—by deliberation; etat—that; asesena—fully;yatha—as you; icchasi—you like; tatha—that;kuru—perform.
Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do.

TEXT 64
sarva-guhyatamam bhuyah
srnu me paramam vacah
isto 'si me drdham iti
tato vaksyami te hitam
sarva-guhyatamam—the most confidential; bhuyah—again; srnu—just hear;me—from Me; paramam—the supreme;vacah—instruction; istah asi—you are very dear to Me; drdham—very; iti—thus; tatah—therefore; vaksyami—speaking; te—for your; hitam—benefit.
Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you the most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit.

TEXT 65
man-mana bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yaji mam namaskuru
mam evaisyasi satyam te
pratijane priyo 'si me
man-manah—thinking of Me; bhava—just become; mat-bhaktah—My devotee;mat-yaji—My worshiper; mam—unto Me;namaskuru—offer your obeisances; mam—unto Me; eva—certainly; esyasi—come;satyam—truly; te—to you; pratijane—I promise; prijah—dear; asi—you are; me—My.
Always think of Me and become My devotee. Worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.

TEXT 66
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah
sarva-dharman—all varieties of religion;parityajya—abandoning; mam—unto Me;ekam—only; saranam—surrender; vraja—go;aham—I; tvam—you; sarva—all; papebhyah—from sinful reactions; moksayisyami—deliver; ma—not; sucah—worry.
Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.

TEXT 67
idam te natapaskaya
nabhaktaya kadacana
na casusrusave vacyam
na ca mam yo 'bhyasuyati
idam—this; te—you; na—never;atapaskaya—one who is not austere; na—never; abhaktaya—one who is not a devotee; kadacana—at any time; na—never;ca—also; asusrusave—one who is not engaged in devotional service; vacyam—to be spoken; na—never; ca—also; mam—unto Me; yah—anyone; abhyasuyati—envious.
This confidential knowledge may not be explained to those who are not austere, or devoted, or engaged in devotional service, nor to one who is envious of Me.

TEXT 68
ya idam paramam guhyam
mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati
bhaktim mayi param krtva
mam evaisyaty asamsayah
yah—anyone; idam—this; paramam—most; guhyam—confidential; mat—Mine;bhaktesu—amongst devotees of;abhidhasyati—explains; bhaktim—devotional service; mayi—unto Me; param—transcendental; krtva—having done; mam—unto Me; eva—certainly; esyati—comes;asamsayah—without doubt.
For one who explains the supreme secret to the devotees, devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.

TEXT 69
na ca tasman manusyesu
kascin me priya-krttamah
bhavita na ca me tasmad
anyah priyataro bhuvi
na—never; ca—and; tasmat—therefore;manusyesu—among mankind; kascit—anyone; me—My; priya-krttamah—more dear; bhavita—will become; na—no; ca—and;me—My; tasmat—than him; anyah—other;priyatarah—dearer; bhuvi—in this world.
There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear.

TEXT 70
adhyesyate ca ya imam
dharmyam samvadam avayoh
jnana-yajnena tenaham
istah syam iti me matih
adhyesyate—will study; ca—also; yah—he; imam—this; dharmyam—sacred;samvadam—conversation; avayoh—of ours;jnana—knowledge; yajnena—by sacrifice;tena—by him; aham—I; istah—worshiped;syam—shall be; iti—thus; me—My; matih—opinion.
And I declare that he who studies this sacred conversation worships Me by his intelligence.

TEXT 71
sraddhavan anasuyas ca
srnuyad api yo narah
so 'pi muktah subhal lokan
prapnuyat punya-karmanam
sraddhavan—faithful; anasuyah ca—and not envious; srnuyat—does hear; api—certainly; yah—who; narah—man; sah api—he also; muktah—being liberated; subhan—auspicious; lokan—planets; prapnuyat—attains; punya-karmanam—of the past.
And one who listens with faith and without envy becomes free from sinful reaction and attains to the planets where the pious dwell.

I believe the problem with that is that Krishna is not God.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
So, do you believe in the Qur'an version of the afterlife because it trumps other religious beliefs about the afterlife? Can you explain in a nutshell what you believe about the resurrection, Judgment day, and Paradise and Punishment? What does the Qur’an say about that? What is Judgment Day? Does the Qur’an say people will rise from their graves on Judgment Day? Is there such a concept as being saved as there is in Christianity? Do believers have to believe in Muhammad in order to be saved? Do people have to believe in God in order to get to paradise?

I believe those are good questions. The only thing I remember is that the virgins are connected to the end times and considering the context most likely the Kingdom of God on earth.
 
Of all the things in this post which demonstrates you have not applied the slightest skepticism to your own religion this is the standout.

If the same Jesus that was born 2000+ years ago where to return, His age would obviously be over 2000+ years, and thus it would not be possible for Him to die at 75, but thanks for letting me ROFL really badly at the incompetence of Islam to do maths as basic as counting

I haven't read the post carefully but maybe the suggestion is that this Jesus guy (how will the people be certain its Jesus? Only mind-control or violence can do the trick) will come back in a youthful and preserved 33 or whatever and then age and rule until he dies at 75 because he wasn't given his proper role back in the day when he was supposed to be King so then gets it later.

I'll still probably be like "whatever", just like I don't care about the various leaders and "Kings" of today.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan, I think you niether care about what others posts nor about what you yourself post. I highly appreciate that.
I believe the problem with that is that Krishna is not God.
I have no problem with Krishna not being a God. Actually I like it that way since I am an atheist. Krishna is Brahman, i.e., the substrate of the universe, which constitutes all perceived and non-percieved things in the universe (that will include Dark Energy, Dark Matter, etc.).
 
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DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan, I think you niether care about what others posts nor about what you yourself post. I highly appreciate that.
I have no problem with Krishna not being a God. Actually I like it that way since I am an atheist. Krishna is Brahman, i.e., the substrate of the universe, which constitutes all perceived and non-percieved things in the universe (that will include Dark Energy, Dark Matter, etc.).

You've described Krishna and myself very well!
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member

There are plenty of saying about Jesus peace be upon him, but I guess the one that interest you are the one regarding his coming back. there is this authentique saying of Muhammed peace be upon him regarding the Messiah returns to lead the believers:

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “How will you be when the son of Mary descends upon you while your leader is among you?”

In another narration, the Prophet said, “How will you be when the son of Mary descends upon you and leads you?”

Another one where the Messiah returns to establish law of Islam:


Jabir ibn Abdullah reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Jesus the son of Mary, peace and blessings be upon him, will descend and the Muslim leader will say: Come lead us in prayer. Jesus will say: No, some of you are leaders over others, as Allah has honored this nation.”
I do not understand how that says that Jesus is coming back to earth. :confused:
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I believe those are good questions. The only thing I remember is that the virgins are connected to the end times and considering the context most likely the Kingdom of God on earth.
I don't know where you heard that. Some Muslims believe they will have many virgins in heaven but that is based upon a misinterpretation of the Qur'an. They can hope though, although this physical desire demonstrates a lack of spirituality and it is amazing they do not even realize that.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
Hello,

I am interested in finding out why Muslims believe Islam is the right religion, and discussing these points.
Alternatively, non-Muslims who have an idea as to why Muslims have this belief.

There are almost 2 billion Muslims, so there must be a reason they believe, however I have searched many different places and can’t find a reason I can accept.

Any reasons welcome, but especially if anyone has reasons which are more uncommon, as I have looked at the more common ones already.

This is coming from a Christian standpoint.

Thank you.
Why shouldn't anyone believe in Islam?

It tells you who and were everything came from.

It tells you to worship no man

All humans are equal and what makes them different is their actions

It tells you to do good and don’t do bad and it defines them.

I guess that is enough
 
Why shouldn't anyone believe in Islam?

It tells you who and were everything came from.

It tells you to worship no man

All humans are equal and what makes them different is their actions

It tells you to do good and don’t do bad and it defines them.

I guess that is enough

Great post! It will be a treat for you maybe to read all my posts from this thread starting at page 1 and to the last page, there are some things you may find interesting, and thank you so much for joining! I think you will have a lot of fun on this website and also help many potentially and this was a great answer!
 

Duncan

Member
I do not understand how that says that Jesus is coming back to earth. :confused:


You don`t understand or you can`t believe or conceive that Jesus will come back, because it is quite clear on the saying and in the Quran that Jesus peace be upon him will come back.

Abdullah bin Amr reported Sayyidina Muhammad (peace be upon him) as saying, "Jesus, son of Mary, will descend to the earth, will marry, have children, and remain forty-five years, after which he will die and be buried along with me in my grave. Then Jesus, son of Mary, and I shall arise from one grave between Abu Bakr and Umar." [Ibn al-Jauzi transmitted it in the Kitab al-Wafa']

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) as saying, "By Him in whose hand my soul is, the son of Mary will soon descend among you as a just judge. He will break crosses, kill swine and abolish the jizya (a tax payable by a community which accepts the protection of a Muslim ruler but whose members do not embrace Islam), and wealth will pour forth to such an extent that no one will accept it, and one sajda (the position in a Muslim's prayer where the forehead is placed on the ground), will be better than the world and what it contains." Abu Huraira used to say: Recite if you wish, "Not one of the people of the Book will fait to believe in him before his death..." (Quran 4.159) [Bukhari, Muslim]
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You don`t understand or you can`t believe or conceive that Jesus will come back, because it is quite clear on the saying and in the Quran that Jesus peace be upon him will come back.
If it is that clear, you should be able to provide a clear verse or verses.
So far I have not see any.
 
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