Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Such post make IQ test redundant.
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Proof of Islam?
- Thread starter Wolf Spirit
- Start date
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Bahais can believe on all miracles but not on what is written in Bible or Quran. Did not the 'Maid of Heaven' visit Bahaollah?
You should be ashamed of yourself... laughing at someone and making fun like a bully.
What's wrong with you?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
There HAS to be a God because there are Messengers OF God. Go figure.There is no God, but there are prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis sent by God / Allah. Go figure.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's not true. Baha'is believe what is in the Bible and the Qur'an.
Duncan
Member
I have certainly answered that question by saying that Jesus Christ did not die, but Allah raised him to Himself. In this, I have only given the view of the majority of scholars, including contemporary ones. I have quoted the Quranic verse which says in reference to what the Jews used to assert: “And their statement ‘We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah’. They certainly have neither killed him nor crucified him, although it was made to appear so to them.” This verse concludes with a categorical statement: “For certain they have not killed him, but Allah has raised him to Himself. Allah is Almighty, Wise.”
The Quran and the sayings of Prophet Muhammad support the belief that Jesus will certainly return as I mentioned in my previous posts:
By the One in Whose hand is my soul! The son of Mary is about to come back as a just ruler who will break the cross, kill the swine, and cancel the tribute, and money will be so great in amount that no one will be in need of it, and one act of prostration will be more lovable to a person than the whole world and everything in it. (Al-Bukhari)
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said,
“…then Allah will send forth the Messiah, son of Mary. He will descend at the white minaret in eastern Damascus, flanked in saffron garbs, with his hands upon the wings of a pair of angels…” (Muslim)
Now from the Quran you have:
And there is none from the People of the Scripture but that he will surely believe in Jesus before his death. And on the Day of Resurrection he will be against them a witness. (4:159)
what does it mean? (There is not one of the People of the Scripture) the Jews and Christians (but will believe in him) in Jesus, that he was not a sorcerer, Allah, His son or His partner (before his death) after the soul of Jesus expires, that is after he comes down again and then dies after every single Jew in their time, (and on the Day of Resurrection he) Jesus (will be a witness against them) through delivery of the message.
Another evidence comes from the Quran:
And when the son of Mary was presented as an example, immediately your people laughed aloud. 43:57
And they said, "Are our gods better, or is he?" They did not present the comparison except for [mere] argument. But, [in fact], they are a people prone to dispute.43:58
Jesus was not but a servant upon whom We bestowed favor, and We made him an example for the Children of Israel.43:59
And if We willed, We could have made [instead] of you angels succeeding [one another] on the earth.43:60
And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path.43:61
If you still dont understand, let me know and go in detail.
Duncan
Member
Ok brother, I am very happy that I made you ROFL, You reminded me of a verse in the Quran, allow me to share it with you:
Indeed, those who committed crimes used to laugh at those who believed. 83:29
And when they passed by them, they would exchange derisive glances.83:30
And when they returned to their people, they would return jesting.83:31
And when they saw them, they would say, "Indeed, those are truly lost."83:32
But they had not been sent as guardians over them.83:33
So Today those who believed are laughing at the disbelievers,83:34
I’ll address your first point “I have not applied the slightest skepticism in my religion” respectfully if you are skeptical about the religion you believe in - then you don’t have true faith. I believe that Islam is perfect and I have no doubts on that front. Yes there is certain knowledge that we can’t attain and that’s where true faith is tested. I would recommend that if you feel doubtful in your beliefs you should be doing further research.
With regards to your mention of time this is a completely different argument ...my answer is simple - the concept of time is different as it's in the Hands of God. The same way time is different in space. If Jesus has been taken to God that means he his being preserved by the hands of God - so I don’t understand your whole “aging concept” your understanding of the concept of time is flawed.
"A star the size of our sun requires about 50 million years to mature from the beginning of the collapse to adulthood," according to NASA. "Our sun will stay in this mature phase … for approximately 10 billion years."
“In Genesis 1:3, the Old Testament records that God said: ‘Let there be light.’ Since the sun, moon, and stars were not made until the fourth day (1:14-16)
“Allah said, ‘The son of Adam wrongs me for he curses Ad-Dahr (Time); though I am Ad-Dahr (Time). In My Hands are all things, and I cause the revolution of day and night’” (Al-Bukhari Hadith).
Allah is greater and beyond time which he himself created
Duncan
Member
If Baha believe in the Quran then why Baha’ullah claimed to be God?
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
True. And yeah, they provide evidence. The vision of the 'Maid of Heaven" and visits by Gabriel (Jibrael). Now, how can anyone deny that?There HAS to be a God because there are Messengers OF God. Go figure.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
They simply don't. They don't believe that Jesus was the son of Allah or that he resurrected after death. They also do not believe that there won't be any message after Mohammad. They do the same to other religions. They don't accept that Krishna was an avatara of Lord Vishnu. They don't seem to know Lord Rama. And funnily, they make Buddha into a messenger of God, something which he thought was useless thinking.
Duncan
Member
Brother Bahaism has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. My comment are based on the Quran, the Bible, and the saying of the prophet Muhammed peace be upon him.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
I see more people laughing today at believers. Perhaps the believers will laugh at unbelievers at Yawm al-Qiyāmah, whenever it happens, and if it does.
Yeah, I know that, Brother, And I always raise my voice against what I consider to be false claims.
Duncan
Member
And I totally respect your opinion brother, and that`s why we are here I guess to exchange informations and learn from each other.you might believe, you might not
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not believe that the same Jesus can return to earth in the same physical body because I do not believe that Jesus ascended to heaven in a physical body. I believe that the physical body of Jesus died on the cross and His soul was taken up to heaven....
I have not seen any verses that say that Jesus will return to earth in the same physical body.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
These are sayings, and they are not in the Qur'an so they are not from Muhammad. Anyone can say anything they want to say but that does not make it true.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Baha'u'llah never claimed to be God. When accused of making that claim, Baha'u'llah wrote the following:
“Certain ones among you have said: “He it is Who hath laid claim to be God.” By God! This is a gross calumny. I am but a servant of God Who hath believed in Him and in His signs, and in His Prophets and in His angels. My tongue, and My heart, and My inner and My outer being testify that there is no God but Him, that all others have been created by His behest, and been fashioned through the operation of His Will. There is none other God but Him, the Creator, the Raiser from the dead, the Quickener, the Slayer. I am He that telleth abroad the favors with which God hath, through His bounty, favored Me. If this be My transgression, then I am truly the first of the transgressors. I and My kindred are at your mercy. Do ye as ye please, and be not of them that hesitate, that I might return to God My Lord, and reach the place where I can no longer behold your faces. This, indeed, is My dearest wish, My most ardent desire. Of My state God is, verily, sufficiently informed, observant.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 228
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I have told you time and again that Baha'u'llah's vision of the Maid of Heaven was not evidence for anyone except Baha'u'llah. It was a personal experience He had, but it does not constitute proof for anyone else because it can never be verified.
What I consider the evidence is everything that surrounds His Life, including His early life; His character as demonstrated by His works; what He did during His mission on earth; the scriptures that He wrote; prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming; the predictions He made that have come to pass; the religion that was established as the result of His Revelation.
That is my more comprehensive list, whereas Baha’u’llah explained how we are supposed to establish the truth of His claim. First, we examine His own Self (His character); then we examine His Revelation (everything that surrounds His Mission on earth); and then we look at His words (His Writings).
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Baha'is do not believe the Christian interpretation of much of the Bible, or the Muslim interpretation of all of the Qur'an, but we believe what is contained in both texts.
Bahais do believe that Jesus was the Son of God, but not in a literal sense since God cannot bear offspring. So we believe that Son of God means the relationship Jesus had with God; Jesus was as a son is to his father.
As for the resurrection, we believe that it was stories that men wrote, not a literal event that took place. Many liberal Christians agree that Jesus never literally rose from the dead.
Regarding there being no more Messengers after Muhammad, I will quote what @ adrian009 said four months ago.
HI @Link
Its great you speak Arabic. I don't speak Arabic and rely on the English translations of which I include several for Quran 33:40:
Sahih International: Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.
Pickthall: Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.
Yusuf Ali: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
Shakir: Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets; and Allah is cognizant of all things.
Muhammad Sarwar: Muhammad is not the father of any of your males. He is the Messenger of God and the last Prophet. God has the knowledge of all things.
Mohsin Khan: Muhammad (SAW) is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the last (end) of the Prophets. And Allah is Ever AllAware of everything.
Arberry: Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but the Messenger of God, and the Seal of the Prophets; God has knowledge of everything.
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation
Of course there is not a single English translation that says Muhammad is the final Prophet for all time. In plain English 'Seal of the Prophets' does not mean Muhammad is the final Prophet for all time. So it comes down to the Arabic and meanings of words that are not captured well with translation into another language.
As you speak Arabic then you may appreciate the use of the words Rasool and Nabi in regards the Quran generally and specifically verse 33:40. The reference to these two Arabic words appears highly relevant and their juxtaposition crucial not just to each other but to the phrase "I am not the father of mankind". One analysis considering Sura 33 as a whole could be in regards to Muhammad being sonless and how his marriage to Zaynab is perceived. However, I believe the phrase is an allusion to the Prophet Adam who was the Father of all mankind. So when Muhammad speaks of being the seal of the Prophets, He speaks of being the last of the lineage of Prophets (Nabi) from Adam to Himself. That makes sense historically because there have been no more Prophets of that lineage. However He does not claim to be the seal of the Messengers or Rasools.
So Muhammad being the seal of the Prophets clearly alludes to a lineage of Prophets from Adam to Muhammad. Baha’is call this the Adamic cycle which we believe ended with the advent of the Madhi (the Bab) during 1844. Baha'u'llah in His work the Kitab-i-Iqan alludes to with the phrase 'seal of the Prophets' and how the phrase is applicable to other Messengers/Rasool. This concept is clearly supported by Christian scripture. For example in the Book of Revelation 22:13 we have reference to Christ being the ‘Alpha and the Omega’, or the first and last letters of the Greek Alphabet. In that sense Christ is also the beginning and end and the seal of the Prophets as with Muhammad.
#2adrian009, Wednesday at 8:37 PM
Tokita
Truth
In order to know God, it would be difficult to know Him as a Ghost. I pray that you come to know who is Jesus. and what His purpose and mission were. God wants us to know His nature and His willingness to sacrifice for the sake of man because He wants us to know him.Educate me on what brother ? on a trinity doctrine that is considered blasphemy by eminent christian scholar, A god who become a man, eat, sleep, cry, tempted by the devil? Is that you definition of your God
? and you are trying to use a bible as an answer to educate me, a bible that contain contradiction, and change every year? well brother you believe whatever you want to believe, it is a free world, at the end it is God who guide people
I have very quick things that I ask you to research:
1. Incorruptible bodies of the saints who gave it all to Christ all the way from the second century. There are hundreds of them. In our time St Padre Pio. Can you explain these? I can and from the Bible itself. I highly encourage you to read about their life. Here is why we have incorruptible bodies, which science cannot explain
Although the explanation of the following statement from (Psalm 16:10) applies to Jesus, it also applies to those who strive to be Holy. "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer Thine Holy One to see corruption."
Jesus wanted people to be Holy. 1 Peter 16:10. For it is written: "Be holy because I am holy."
Just for your convenience here is a link. Feel free and look up the names and research on your own.
Incorruptible saints
You can try to reason by logic or talk about magical number 19 in the Quran. All is worthless as far as I am concerned. I can bring you physical proof where humans fail to understand.
You could not define Trinity as Christians know it because the explanation in the Quran is wrong. It is well defined as Jesus, Mary and God. There is no word Trinity in the Bible but can be proven, there is no Trinity word in the Quran but is evident how it was wrongfully defined
Sahih International: Sura 5:116 And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'"...
You probably recall me asking you about the Mirriamites - they used to worship Mary - and that was their Trinity, which is a hearesy. They were Christians.
You probably also remember that I asked you about the Sabians. All of the rituals you mimic today. They were pagans.
I say history is proof. Archeology is proof. Open-mindedness is necessary.
Tokita
Truth
There is no disagreement in what you intend to communicate to me. To appreciate the meaning of those statements, which, yes can be read and understood literally by those who limit God, one must first understand the nature of Christ and His role - all the way back from the Old Testament.
By looking at Him as a created human as Islam does, those statements will do justice to your intended meaning. However, He was not only a man. Jesus manifested Himself as a man and suffered so we come to know and appreciate His sacrifice.