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Undefeated
I wouldn't expect you would.I don't think I am the one who has trouble with logic...
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I wouldn't expect you would.I don't think I am the one who has trouble with logic...
I believe this to be a test or a warning - telling people to prepare for what has been prophesied to come.Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
If this virus/pestilence is a sign, the next thing we might expect is great signs in the heaven.
Not comets or asteroids or supermoons probably. But great signs that absolutely stun people and probably have never been seen before.
I wouldn't expect you would.
The time compared to a woman in labor. The last seven years of man's history of rule on earth. Or, as the three gospels I cited say the beginning of sorrows.
You may be correct.I believe this to be a test or a warning - telling people to prepare for what has been prophesied to come.
I don't believe we are at the end times yet - but we are close.
And funnily enough, most people here don't think I have a problem with it either.
On the other hand, I;ve seen lots of people commenting on your logically flawed arguments, inability to produce good evidence and cluelessness as to what the burden of proof is.
You seem to be calling the seven-year period the tribulation, is this correct?Yes, I identify the 'time of sorrows' as the Tribulation period also. Daniel's 70th week. But I do not see any spectacular signs that will occur prior to the Tribulation period, other than what naturally can occur. My opinion.
This can become quite a complex discussion involving the comparison of (Matt. 24-25) with (Luke 21). Being able to identify what is being spoken of, either the Tribulation period or the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
Well, in both gospels I see the key phrase that seems to denote the last seven year period. The beginning of sorrows. The word translated as sorrows is associated with a woman in travail.And, being able to apply the verses to the two questions asked by the disciples. (Matt. 24:3) When shall these be? What shall be the sign of thy coming and of the end of the world?
With these questions, (Matthew) answers the second question of the sign but does not speak to the first question. (Luke) does however address the first question which will involve at times the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.
Correct, that has always been the teaching in bible believing churches that I am aware of. We are to be ready as if it could be today, yet sort of work and plan as if it might be way in the future.Because I hold to the Rapture also, and that it occurs just before the Tribulation, I do not believe there will be any spectacular signs given prior to the Tribulation for believers to recognize. Else we would not be looking for for that blessed hope, we would be looking for signs prior the Tribulation period. Again, just my opinion as there are many views concerning the Rapture, Tribulation, and the timing of them.
Far as I can tell the topic according to the OP is the signs which occur at the end of the age/ return of Christ. That’s the point I’m addressing and the verse I included is in direct reference to those who discount and deny the promise of Christ’s return and the signs He said would occur at the end of the age.So you're just waffling on about random things now? Please keep to the topic at hand, okay?
I agree that we are entering into the "home stretch" - but I don't personally believe in any kind of Rapture event.You may be correct.
Especially if you mean the last seven years when you say end times.
It seems that the first sign we are entering the seven-year time of sorrows will be a world war. Then we see earthquakes and pestilences and famines. (Probably it depends on where we live to what degree each of these will be, and which might come first) Then we see great signs in the heavens. If I see this sequence I will assume we have entered the seven years and that the Rapture is imminent if we are still here.
Their deductions were not based on prophesy. Anyone can claim some new moon is a great sign, and offer a timetable till the exact day the world ends. Most Bible expositors and believers do not do that.
We know that one day the end period will come. The signs are for those living in it.
There have been lots of wars and earthquakes and famines, and pestilences, and unusual things in the sky. We are also in the last days since Jesus was here. Those signs did not indicate that the last seven years had started. That would be obvious to any or most people who mistook some signs pretty quickly.
Name a war that killed a quarter of the planet's population, and that involved Syria, Israel, Turkey, Russia, Libya and Jordan? Name an earthquake that made all mountains level and all islands move away from where they were? Name a sign in the sky that involved a third of the stars going out? Name any plague that happened to people with a mark in their forehead or hands needed to buy and sell by force of law and under penalty of death? Name a time when hundred pound hailstones fell on men? Name and earthquake that split the mount of Olives in two from east to west and left a big valley? Name a time when 2/3 of Israel was killed in a war and persecution? Etc.
Yes, prophecies are specific. The issue is whether early prophesies could tell us that this seven-year period was here or not, or even close. You see if it was near that would have implications. It would mean that believers were about to leave this world.
No man knows the day or the hour when He will return. However, we can know the signs of the times!
The ancients did consider most things that were lights in the sky were stars apparently. They did not use a modern science definition.
In some instances, such as a big star falling to earth and poisoning the seas, I could see where the star could be more of a heavenly object (space station, asteroid etc). In other instances where the heavens depart like a scroll and the earth has no light and has to use candles, it does seem like the sun and moon and stars are affected.
OK. Guess we'll find out soon enough.I agree that we are entering into the "home stretch" - but I don't personally believe in any kind of Rapture event.
It's sure hard to compete against evidence as reliable as a quote from Luke.
Be sure to get back to us when you see something.
Luke 21:11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
If this virus/pestilence is a sign, the next thing we might expect is great signs in the heaven.
Not comets or asteroids or supermoons probably. But great signs that absolutely stun people and probably have never been seen before.
Not really. If they knew that some of the signs they looked for actually would be expected before that final seven years they could not base anything on them. There are always some who will mess things up. People in Jesus' day would have known He was coming because the year was given in Daniel. Those who did not know were lazy or deceived or deceivers.Their deductions were not based on prophesy.
Yes they were! They were based on the EXACT same prophecy that YOUR deductions are based on, it's just that THEY clearly interpreted that prophecy differently than YOU did.
The signs of the very end, the last days of the Tribulation period could not possibly have been fulfilled now or at any time in history. That is insanity.Name a war that killed a quarter of the planet's population, and that involved Syria, Israel, Turkey, Russia, Libya and Jordan? Name an earthquake that made all mountains level and all islands move away from where they were?
EVERY single one of these questions you ask me, believers in the past asked themselves as well, however THEY looked around the world they lived in and they were able to convince themselves that ALL of the signs you listed HAD transpired, which in why they declared that the end times were happening during their lifetimes. You claiming that they misinterpreted the 'signs' supports my claim that the 'signs' in your bible can be interpreted incorrectly FAR too easily. Otherwise people wouldn't have been getting it wrong every generation for the past 2000 years.
As my last post said, it does not matter! Earthquakes are found in all the last days starting from the days of Jesus (and even before of course). So are the rest of the signs (except those totally devastating signs at the very very end).Earthquakes happen daily in multiples. Please define "great".
People being clobbered by hundred-pound hailstones or who have mountains crumble and fall over them will not be worried about some little rush.Bible quotes will not get you as far as your sheer instinctual wits will.
Just image the adrenaline you last got from a "fight or flight" event. Maybe you were hanging off a cliff somehow or trapped in an elevator. These are extreme scenarios that illustrate a Will to be summoned, yes even the will to survive petty pathogens. And to meanwhile make lemonade out of lemons.
As my last post said, it does not matter! Earthquakes are found in all the last days starting from the days of Jesus (and even before of course). So are the rest of the signs (except those totally devastating signs at the very very end).
Some signs were in the time before the last seven years of world history begins. Some signs (war, famines, pestilences, earthquakes, and great signs in the heavens) taken together mark the start of the seven years. And there are many signs in the seven-year period as well.
Now in the case of a great earthquake at the very very end, I will define that. One of the signature traits of the very end found in several prophesies and bible books is the great shaking. God arises to shake terribly the earth...and terms like this refer to it.
Thers is coming a shaking so great that every tower on earth will crumble! Every mountain will be flattened and almost level! That is a great quake. Now for a great sign in heaven, in the very end we see things like the sun and stars going dark, and heavenly objects crashing into earth and poisoning the oceans. Those are great signs! There likely will also be great signs even before this, what sort I don't know, but they will be GREAT! Not some questionable slightly colored or big moon, or ho-hum comet passing by!
People being clobbered by hundred-pound hailstones or who have mountains crumble and fall over them will not be worried about some little rush.
I would counter that quakes before Jesus would not be signs of His RETURN! (as for your imaginary time claims, find a science thread and try to support them. Good luck with that.I would counter that earthquakes occurred for billions of years before someone ever concocted the Jewish god. Therefore, they are irrelevant.
That was specially designed for the science areas of the forum. It is factual. As for prophesy threads, well, it is a bit of give and take."undefeated"? Very presumptuous.