What if life on earth never returned to pre-Coronavirus life?

[halbhh]

I thought to post this because I was listening to Christian radio and the DJs were laughing and joking and talking about the “first thing” they will do when life returns to “normal” as if life is ever going to be the same. Granted, it might return to a semblance of normality but I do not think life on earth will ever be the same as it was before this pandemic. Granted, I do not know what other people are thinking just from a few comments they make on the radio. However, I tend to think that some people believe that life will return to normal whereas some people probably think life will never be the same. I also think most people would like to see life return to normal although a few people might not want to see that happen because they see some positives that have come about as a result of this pandemic.

Since psychology is my other hat and one I wore a lot longer than my religion hat I tend to analyze people and why they think and do what they think and do.

Probably the people who would like to see life return to normal are people who have a happy and settled life with friends and family and lots of fun activities they enjoy outside the home. It only makes sense that people who lost their jobs or were temporarily laid off would like to see their lives return to normal, but many people like the DJs who are still working say they miss social activities like going to church, weddings, graduations, even birthday parties, and going out to eat at restaurants or to the movies. I am sure some people also miss being able to travel.

But what would happen to those people who are “waiting” for life to return to normal if life never returned to normal (pre-Coronavirus)? What if they could not have all the material things they want and all the fun activities they enjoy so much? Would more people turn to God and spiritual things or would they just get depressed or angry and possibly turn to substance abuse?

Given so many people were distraught about not being able to get toilet paper, I can only imagine what they would do if they could not have all the other things Americans and others in industrialized countries take for granted.

Of course this is all hypothetical. Any of you who are regulars on this forum knows that Trailblazer loves hypothetical scenarios.

We have here merely another highly contagious and moderately dangerous disease.

Not the worst ever, but not trivial. Serious like...measles was. (though it acts quite different in many ways)

Life will go on, even if 2 million or 15 million die (globally). And the disease will eventually be dealt with fairly well.

Now, on the economic side on the other hand, it's more a guessing, but likely we can recover ok from this extreme disruption. (assuming it doesn't get aggravated by some other unexpected factors)

But how long, and with how much pain...that's not quite pinned down.

But about having less...complacency and overindulgence. Well, it could better our character, sure. In time. There's a reason some will intentionally fast, for instance, and doing without some stuff can be refreshing.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What motive would that be?

Quite simple. When one religion denigrates another, the motive is dominance or increase in its power.
The motive never is universal love or peace.

 

[Trailblazer]

Quite simple. When one religion denigrates another, the motive is dominance or increase in its power.
The motive never is universal love or peace.

I agree, but the Baha'i Faith does not denigrate other religions....
If you want to take that position, it is only fair that you provide evidence.
Otherwise it is a bald assertion.

 

[ManSinha]

but the Baha'i Faith does not denigrate other religions..

But of course it does - it strikes at one of the very foundations of Christianity - the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ - that is denigrating the religion no matter what you call it

As to Islam - it denies the station of Muhammad as final seal of prophets and tries to include Baha'u'llah as a resurrection - that is denigrating Islam

And as @Jainarayan pointed out - calling Krishna a "manifestation" is denigrating the Vaisnava's by imputing two things
That Baha'i's know Krishna better than a very large group of people dedicated solely to his worship
That Krishna is not essentially god and the universe himself as he proclaimed in the Gita

Your religion's sense of knowledge is so poor that it denigrates others without even knowing that it does - and you proclaim that it does not. Compare it with the person that goes around "touching" people at work. He / she may not think much of it - OTOH - some of the people at the receiving end may consider it offensive or even sexual harassment. IOW - what you think does not really matter - it is what the people in other religions that you profess to "abrogate the dispensation of" think that matters.

Try talking to those that your religion refers to - Christians, Muslims and Vaisnavites - and they will tell you the real story - all you have are rose tinted glasses - and the delusions about your leader(s)

And of course there is no mention of Lord Shiva - who is regarded by another large group of people as the Supreme Being - so where does that leave the knowledge in the Baha'i faith?

Your religion speaks of Adam and Moses as prophets among others - do you not know that there is no evidence that these existed? Go back and examine the rationale of your own beliefs and your blind faith before you come here and preach and share with others

 

[Aupmanyav]

Your religion's sense of knowledge is so poor that it denigrates others without even knowing that it does - and you proclaim that it does not

Your religion speaks of Adam and Moses as prophets among others - do you not know that there is no evidence that these existed? Go back and examine the rationale of your own beliefs and your blind faith before you come here and preach and share with others

^^^

 

[Trailblazer]

But of course it does - it strikes at one of the very foundations of Christianity - the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ - that is denigrating the religion no matter what you call it

As to Islam - it denies the station of Muhammad as final seal of prophets and tries to include Baha'u'llah as a resurrection - that is denigrating Islam

And as @Jainarayan pointed out - calling Krishna a "manifestation" is denigrating the Vaisnava's by imputing two things
That Baha'i's know Krishna better than a very large group of people dedicated solely to his worship
That Krishna is not essentially god and the universe himself as he proclaimed in the Gita

Your religion's sense of knowledge is so poor that it denigrates others without even knowing that it does - and you proclaim that it does not. Compare it with the person that goes around "touching" people at work. He / she may not think much of it - OTOH - some of the people at the receiving end may consider it offensive or even sexual harassment. IOW - what you think does not really matter - it is what the people in other religions that you profess to "abrogate the dispensation of" think that matters.

Try talking to those that your religion refers to - Christians, Muslims and Vaisnavites - and they will tell you the real story - all you have are rose tinted glasses - and the delusions about your leader(s)

And of course there is no mention of Lord Shiva - who is regarded by another large group of people as the Supreme Being - so where does that leave the knowledge in the Baha'i faith?

Your religion speaks of Adam and Moses as prophets among others - do you not know that there is no evidence that these existed? Go back and examine the rationale of your own beliefs and your blind faith before you come here and preach and share with others

Clarification and correction is not denigration. Baha'u'llah was either (a) a Manifestation of God or he was (b) a false prophet. If He was a Manifestation of God, everything He wrote is the very truth, including what He said about older religions and the Messengers who established them.

None of this is about me or what I say. If Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, He was the Representative of God among men

If he was a false prophet, the Baha'i Faith is a false religion. It is a or b, there is no other option, logically speaking.

You are free to make your own choice, a or b, just as everyone else is free to choose. However if Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, that is who He was, and nobody can change that regardless of what they believe because it is reality.

It does not matter to me what you or anyone else believes because all that I do is for the sake of God.
Likewise, it did not matter to Baha'u'llah if anyone believed in His Cause, because He did what He did solely for the sake of God.

It makes no sense to me that Baha'u'llah would write what He did about God as well as suffering and sacrificing 40 years of His life for the Cause of God if He was a false prophet.

 

[JesusKnowsYou]

I thought to post this because I was listening to Christian radio and the DJs were laughing and joking and talking about the “first thing” they will do when life returns to “normal” as if life is ever going to be the same. Granted, it might return to a semblance of normality but I do not think life on earth will ever be the same as it was before this pandemic. Granted, I do not know what other people are thinking just from a few comments they make on the radio. However, I tend to think that some people believe that life will return to normal whereas some people probably think life will never be the same. I also think most people would like to see life return to normal although a few people might not want to see that happen because they see some positives that have come about as a result of this pandemic.

Since psychology is my other hat and one I wore a lot longer than my religion hat I tend to analyze people and why they think and do what they think and do.

Probably the people who would like to see life return to normal are people who have a happy and settled life with friends and family and lots of fun activities they enjoy outside the home. It only makes sense that people who lost their jobs or were temporarily laid off would like to see their lives return to normal, but many people like the DJs who are still working say they miss social activities like going to church, weddings, graduations, even birthday parties, and going out to eat at restaurants or to the movies. I am sure some people also miss being able to travel.

But what would happen to those people who are “waiting” for life to return to normal if life never returned to normal (pre-Coronavirus)? What if they could not have all the material things they want and all the fun activities they enjoy so much? Would more people turn to God and spiritual things or would they just get depressed or angry and possibly turn to substance abuse?

Given so many people were distraught about not being able to get toilet paper, I can only imagine what they would do if they could not have all the other things Americans and others in industrialized countries take for granted.

Of course this is all hypothetical. Any of you who are regulars on this forum knows that Trailblazer loves hypothetical scenarios.

This is not the first pandemic faced by the world.

We will recover and life will go on.

Be at peace. All is within the hands of He who made all things.

 

[Trailblazer]

Be at peace. All is within the hands of He who made all things.

Indeed.

 

[ManSinha]

Likewise, it did not matter to Baha'u'llah if anyone believed in His Cause, because He did what He did solely for the sake of God.

If that were true he would not have written grandiloquent letters to world leaders asking them to change with veiled threats of loss of prestige and power

It makes no sense to me that Baha'u'llah would write what He did about God as well as suffering and sacrificing 40 years of His life for the Cause of God if He was a false prophet.

A lot of people suffer for their religious beliefs - there was a man who had his scalp torn off - there was another who was cut into two while alive by a saw - there was yet another boiled alive - suffering for having a particular religious belief is neither unique to Baha'u'llah nor does it confer any degree of prophethood. And quit sharing those grandiose verses with me in your posts - they mean less than nothing to me. It only confirms my belief that you are slyly attempting to proselytize where none is needed. This is way beyond sharing Susan.

Clarification and correction is not denigration.

So says you. Talk to the individuals it is aimed at and they may have a different perspective. You claim Baha'u'llah had the right to do so - over 3 billion people deny that vehemently. I have said so before - all you have is your rose tinted glasses and myopic vision. You fail to see other's viewpoint on how they view your personal proselytizing on here as well as what certain adherents of your faith are slyly trying to do. Walk in the shoes of some one else for a change and maybe it will add another dimension to your perspective.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I thought to post this because I was listening to Christian radio and the DJs were laughing and joking and talking about the “first thing” they will do when life returns to “normal” as if life is ever going to be the same. Granted, it might return to a semblance of normality but I do not think life on earth will ever be the same as it was before this pandemic. Granted, I do not know what other people are thinking just from a few comments they make on the radio. However, I tend to think that some people believe that life will return to normal whereas some people probably think life will never be the same. I also think most people would like to see life return to normal although a few people might not want to see that happen because they see some positives that have come about as a result of this pandemic.

Since psychology is my other hat and one I wore a lot longer than my religion hat I tend to analyze people and why they think and do what they think and do.

Probably the people who would like to see life return to normal are people who have a happy and settled life with friends and family and lots of fun activities they enjoy outside the home. It only makes sense that people who lost their jobs or were temporarily laid off would like to see their lives return to normal, but many people like the DJs who are still working say they miss social activities like going to church, weddings, graduations, even birthday parties, and going out to eat at restaurants or to the movies. I am sure some people also miss being able to travel.

But what would happen to those people who are “waiting” for life to return to normal if life never returned to normal (pre-Coronavirus)? What if they could not have all the material things they want and all the fun activities they enjoy so much? Would more people turn to God and spiritual things or would they just get depressed or angry and possibly turn to substance abuse?

Given so many people were distraught about not being able to get toilet paper, I can only imagine what they would do if they could not have all the other things Americans and others in industrialized countries take for granted.

Of course this is all hypothetical. Any of you who are regulars on this forum knows that Trailblazer loves hypothetical scenarios.

I assume things will stabilise and become some semblance of normal eventually. It might take a l-o-o-n-g time, though. The people expecting everything to go back the way it was in a week or two are in for a nasty shock. I don't think we're even close to the peak yet.

 

[Trailblazer]

I assume things will stabilise and become some semblance of normal eventually. It might take a l-o-o-n-g time, though. The people expecting everything to go back the way it was in a week or two are in for a nasty shock. I don't think we're even close to the peak yet.

I fully agree.

 

[CG Didymus]

Clarification and correction is not denigration. Baha'u'llah was either (a) a Manifestation of God or he was (b) a false prophet. If He was a Manifestation of God, everything He wrote is the very truth, including what He said about older religions and the Messengers who established them.

None of this is about me or what I say. If Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, He was the Representative of God among men, so the following passage applies....

“Know assuredly that just as thou firmly believest that the Word of God, exalted be His glory, endureth for ever, thou must, likewise, believe with undoubting faith that its meaning can never be exhausted. They who are its appointed interpreters, they whose hearts are the repositories of its secrets, are, however, the only ones who can comprehend its manifold wisdom. Whoso, while reading the Sacred Scriptures, is tempted to choose therefrom whatever may suit him with which to challenge the authority of the Representative of God among men, is, indeed, as one dead, though to outward seeming he may walk and converse with his neighbors, and share with them their food and their drink.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 175-176

If he was a false prophet, the Baha'i Faith is a false religion. It is a or b, there is no other option, logically speaking.

You are free to make your own choice, a or b, just as everyone else is free to choose. However if Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God, that is who He was, and nobody can change that regardless of what they believe because it is reality.

It does not matter to me what you or anyone else believes because all that I do is for the sake of God.
Likewise, it did not matter to Baha'u'llah if anyone believed in His Cause, because He did what He did solely for the sake of God.

“Behold Him, an exile, a victim of tyranny, in this Most Great Prison. His enemies have assailed Him on every side, and will continue to do so till the end of His life. Whatever, therefore, He saith unto you is wholly for the sake of God, that haply the peoples of the earth may cleanse their hearts from the stain of evil desire, may rend its veil asunder, and attain unto the knowledge of the one true God—the most exalted station to which any man can aspire. Their belief or disbelief in My Cause can neither profit nor harm Me. We summon them wholly for the sake of God. He, verily, can afford to dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 85

It makes no sense to me that Baha'u'llah would write what He did about God as well as suffering and sacrificing 40 years of His life for the Cause of God if He was a false prophet.

There's always more choices... even "maybe" or "maybe, with a grain of salt." I have often used the example of Christianity presenting Jesus to the Jews. Did I say "presenting"? I meant torturing and killing them if they didn't convert. If a Baha'i was alive at the time of the Inquisition what would they have done? Convert to a religion that says Jesus is the only way, that all other religions are of Satan, that Jesus rose physically from the dead and is coming back to judge the world, that he is God in the flesh. And, since that was the Roman Church back then, it also included believing the Pope was infallible and to confess your sins to the priest and to sent your little boys to church and learn how to be altar boys.

As compared to the Baha'i "Truth", I don't see when at any time that Christianity ever had the truth. For a Jew to have converted would be to convert to a religion filled with false doctrines and beliefs. Even Christians eventually broke away and started the Protestants churches. But do Baha'i believe any of them as having the truth? At best, just bits and pieces of truth and the rest Baha'is call man-made traditions.

For every other religion, Baha'is are calling for them to go against what their old religion has taught them. My complaint to the Baha'is, mostly at poor Tony, is that Baha'is are putting the differences between the different religions at the forefront. They are not seeking or promoting unity first... then sort out differences. It is, and will continue, to push people from the other religions away and give them a negative view of the Baha'i Faith. Baha'is believe they are wrong, and they believe that the Baha'is are wrong. And, if they believe the Baha'is are wrong, then they will probably believe that their prophet must be wrong also.

And what is that Baha'i quote? Something about if religion is the cause of discord, it's better to get rid of it. There has got to be a more unifying way for Baha'is to present what they believe is the truth.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If a Baha'i was alive at the time of the Inquisition what would they have done? Convert to a religion that says Jesus is the only way, that all other religions are of Satan, that Jesus rose physically from the dead and is coming back to judge the world, that he is God in the flesh.

They would not recant and choose to give their life so the cause can prosper for other people.

That is the fulfilment in this verse;

Deuteronomy 33:2 "And he said, The LORD came from Sinai (Moses) , and rose up from Seir (Jesus) unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran (Muhammad) , and he came with ten thousands of saints (those that aceept and do not recant): from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (Bab and Baha'u'llah)

The Bab gave a fiery law that showed a distinct break from the old laws, the result was the ten thousand of saints that gave their lives.

It is the greatest story many are yet to read. Epic times, epic battles, epic sacrifices when Good battles evil.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I fully agree.

The world will find no rest, but in submitting to the unity of the Human race.

The convulsions will grow closer together, until unity is born.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

The world will find no rest, but in submitting to the unity of the Human race.

The convulsions will grow closer together, until unity is born.

I believe that unity has been born through this pandemic but now unity has to grow.

God will decide when it is time to stop the convulsions, and after they have been sufficient to wake people up people will turn towards the Manifestation of God and the Divine Standard will be unfurled.

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I believe that unity has been born through this pandemic but now unity has to grow.

God will decide when it is time to stop the convulsions, and after they have been sufficient to wake people up people will turn towards the Manifestation of God and the Divine Standard will be unfurled.

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119

Yes the fact we must work together has been realised, the medical scientific professionals leading the way.

The next convulsion will be the economy. This has already started for many.

May all stay well and happy, these are exciting and challenging times, as we watch what was foretold and warned about, unravel before our gaze.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

as we watch what was foretold and warned about, unravel before our gaze.

Indeed, at least we know full well whence it comes, and what it will ultimately lead to, as the Guardian wrote in 1931:

“Dear friends! The powerful operations of this titanic upheaval are comprehensible to none except such as have recognized the claims of both Bahá’u’lláh and the Báb. Their followers know full well whence it comes, and what it will ultimately lead to. Though ignorant of how far it will reach, they clearly recognize its genesis, are aware of its direction, acknowledge its necessity, observe confidently its mysterious processes, ardently pray for the mitigation of its severity, intelligently labor to assuage its fury, and anticipate, with undimmed vision, the consummation of the fears and the hopes it must necessarily engender.”
The Promised Day Is Come, p. 4

 

[Trailblazer]

As compared to the Baha'i "Truth", I don't see when at any time that Christianity ever had the truth. For a Jew to have converted would be to convert to a religion filled with false doctrines and beliefs. Even Christians eventually broke away and started the Protestants churches. But do Baha'i believe any of them as having the truth? At best, just bits and pieces of truth and the rest Baha'is call man-made traditions.

It is only the doctrines of the Church we consider false and of course the Trinity, Jesus is God, the resurrection and the ascension and the return of the same man Jesus in the clouds are all doctrines, since Jesus did not teach any of these. Anything Jesus taught Baha'is believe.. His teachings are so beautiful.

For every other religion, Baha'is are calling for them to go against what their old religion has taught them.

We are not 'calling them' to do that, we just 'tell them' what WE believe. What they do with that is their own choice. But I do understand what you mean by calling.

My complaint to the Baha'is, mostly at poor Tony, is that Baha'is are putting the differences between the different religions at the forefront. They are not seeking or promoting unity first... then sort out differences. It is, and will continue, to push people from the other religions away and give them a negative view of the Baha'i Faith. Baha'is believe they are wrong, and they believe that the Baha'is are wrong. And, if they believe the Baha'is are wrong, then they will probably believe that their prophet must be wrong also.

I try to look at what we share in common rather than the differences, and there is a lot we have in common, less the doctrines of the Church. I feel bound to Christians in spirit and I listen to Christian music all day long. But I cannot 'pretend' to believe in the doctrines of the Church because that would be dishonest.

And what is that Baha'i quote? Something about if religion is the cause of discord, it's better to get rid of it. There has got to be a more unifying way for Baha'is to present what they believe is the truth.

I think I have come a long way with that and I am still working on it. I hardly ever have disharmonious conversations with Christians anymore. I just present what I believe and ask them what they believe. I never try to convince them of anything I believe.

Love that Christian music -- it is still playing since early this morning. I only wish I had half the passion about God that most Christians do, I keep hoping it will rub off on me.

 

[Aupmanyav]

May all stay well and happy, these are exciting and challenging times, as we watch what was foretold and warned about, unravel before our gaze.

Do you think you will live that long?

 

[Riders]

Church will turn into small gatherings in people's houses. 10 people or so will be allowed. Entertainment in small groups 10 or so people in a house. It would be like the 1800s. But much of the entertainment will be in the inside.

There would I hope to be less sex but there might be more. We would marry more and be more dependant on our family life and family members to entertain us and close too so more of us would be married.