What if life on earth never returned to pre-Coronavirus life?

[Trailblazer]

Today at 9 p.m. India observed a festival of lights, Diwali, at the request of our Prime Minister. We switched off electrical lights and light earthen lamps and candles or even torches and mobile phones - to ward off the darkness created by the Corona Virus. It is a motivational event, half way in the middle of the 21-day lock-down that India is observing. Google has the images.

North, South, East, West, all Indians united against Corona virus.
Corona lights India - Google Search
Indian Prime Minister lighting the lamp.

‘Go corona go’: locked-down India lights up to mark virus fight

COVID-19: India lights candles in a show of solidarity against coronavirus

 

[Aupmanyav]

No, they should have embraced Jesus.

Why don't you embrace Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyyas? Allah sent him later than the Iranian Baqaollah. Mirza said he is the Mahdi, the returning Jesus.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why don't you embrace Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyyas? Allah sent him later than the Iranian Baqaollah. Mirza said he is the Mahdi, the returning Jesus.

I see he was a good man, but he was not a Manifestation of God, that is my reason.

As for Christ, time has proven Jesus was indeed a Universal Educator that the Jews could have embraced for a better world.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but he was not a Manifestation of God, that is my reason.
As for Christ, time has proven Jesus was indeed a Universal Educator that the Jews could have embraced for a better world.

How do you know? What proof Bahaollah gives that convinces you that he was the 'mirror copy' of Allah and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad does not?
In what way Jesus has been a universal educator? He was just one more superstitious monotheist, like those before or after him, whose religions brought misery and pain to the world. Even Bahaollah's religion brought misery to his Iranian followers, so what if he was sitting pretty in Acre.

Attaining unity in diversity is all about having good boundaries and respecting other people's boundaries.

That is false. You do not respect the boundaries of any other religion.

 

[CG Didymus]

If a Baha'i was alive at the time of the Inquisition what would they have done? Convert to a religion that says Jesus is the only way, that all other religions are of Satan, that Jesus rose physically from the dead and is coming back to judge the world, that he is God in the flesh. And, since that was the Roman Church back then, it also included believing the Pope was infallible and to confess your sins to the priest and to sent your little boys to church and learn how to be altar boys.

They would not recant and choose to give their life so the cause can prosper for other people.

They would not recant and choose to give their life so the cause can prosper for other people.

Yes, exactly. So the Jews were correct in not converting to a corrupt and false message from God. But still, when do you believe that Christians were ever spreading the truth about God? Their beliefs and doctrines were there early on. I'd imagine from the start they were preaching that Jesus had risen from the dead and had conquered Satan. Those beliefs, according to the Baha'is, are wrong.

No, they should have embraced Jesus.

Okay, let's try this again. If a Baha'i were alive during the Inquisition should they have converted to a Christian Church that held beliefs that Jews and Baha'is believe are false? If they asked the Baha'i or the Jew, as they were torturing them, to confess that Jesus was God and that he had physically risen from the dead, should the Baha'i or the Jew have converted to a Christianity that held those beliefs?

 

[CG Didymus]

Sounds a bit like the effort needs to be done by others. If there were better ways at that time, what did you do to help implement the better path?

Any Faith is as busy and as rewarding that one own self makes it.

That is our greatest personal challenge and we can not judge others who face their own challenges, we can only lead by example.

Regards Tony

I went with my Baha'i friends on some of their mass-teaching projects. They went with me to various peace group meetings and events. They all had problems with the people on their local spiritual assemblies. My friends were too liberal and the assembly members were too conservative.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, let's try this again. If a Baha'i were alive during the Inquisition should they have converted to a Christian Church that held beliefs that Jews and Baha'is believe are false? If they asked the Baha'i or the Jew, as they were torturing them, to confess that Jesus was God and that he had physically risen from the dead, should the Baha'i or the Jew have converted to a Christianity that held those beliefs?

What a mess of words CG

If one was alive in the time of Jesus, they should have accepted Jesus. After Jesus passing they should have embraced what Christ asked them to do, in the end the authority was the Catholic Church, the line of Peter.

Then in the mid year 600, if one heard about Muhammad, one should have embraced His God given cause. Christians that have not excepted Muhammad have done as the Jews did to Christ.

If we stick to God's Covenants, then the way is not made so muddy.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

You know what I forgot? The other major religions. Why no mention of Krishna and the other incarnations of God in India? The Buddha and Zoroaster? Again, if it's not one of the "Abrahamic" religions, it gets little or no mention. Why?

People were not ready for it and it appears they still struggle with it.

The verses are there, that Truth was given.

The better question is why do we still choose not to see our oneness? Baha'u'llah has shown how those verses were showing our oneness.

Jesus said I have more sheep that are not of this fold. How can that not be seen as the sheep of every other Messenger and Prophet. Jesus the Christ said I am the First and the Last, all the while we know there has been many Prophets, how can that not be seen that Christ is all the Prophets?

The Truth is written, why did and why do we not see it?

"People were not ready for it" is your answer to my question? I think we are ready to hear the Baha'i answer. It's just not there. Remember how all this got started. A Baha'i said that Krishna was the founder of Hinduism. After hundreds of posts, it became apparent that the Baha'i Faith does not say much about Hinduism. But go ahead, give me some quotes from Baha'u'llah about Hinduism and let's see what he said.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I went with my Baha'i friends on some of their mass-teaching projects. They went with me to various peace group meetings and events. They all had problems with the people on their local spiritual assemblies. My friends were too liberal and the assembly members were too conservative.

Such is life CG. When this happens, then if we have been gifted ti know a little more than others, we would then guide them the best we can.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

"People were not ready for it" is your answer to my question? I think we are ready to hear the Baha'i answer. It's just not there. Remember how all this got started. A Baha'i said that Krishna was the founder of Hinduism. After hundreds of posts, it became apparent that the Baha'i Faith does not say much about Hinduism. But go ahead, give me some quotes from Baha'u'llah about Hinduism and let's see what he said.

Not going over that CG.

Krishna is confirmed as a Manifestation of God in the Baha'i Writings. He founded a Faith that has now become a part of a collection of Faiths and beliefs, in a movement called Hinduism.

Vishnu: The Savior, the Preserver, and the Protector – Religion 100Q: Hinduism Project

Really, it is not that hard CG, unless of course you wish to keep an argument open to play some games.

 

[CG Didymus]

What a mess of words CG

If one was alive in the time of Jesus, they should have accepted Jesus. After Jesus passing they should have embraced what Christ asked them to do, in the end the authority was the Catholic Church, the line of Peter.

Then in the mid year 600, if one heard about Muhammad, one should have embraced His God given cause. Christians that have not excepted Muhammad have done as the Jews did to Christ.

If we stick to God's Covenants, then the way is not made so muddy.

Regards Tony

You continually dodge all the tough questions, so let me answer it for you. Baha'is don't believe what the Roman Church believes about Jesus. They would have had to say "no" and gotten tortured to death along with the Jews that refused to recant. The Jew could not go along with the Christian belief that Jesus was part of a Trinitarian God. Or is that too muddy for you?

Tell me, what do you talk about when you have dinner at the Pastor's house? And how long have you been going to his Church and having dinner with him?

 

[CG Didymus]

Not going over that CG.

Krishna is confirmed as a Manifestation of God in the Baha'i Writings. He founded a Faith that has now become a part of a collection of Faiths and beliefs, in a movement called Hinduism.

Vishnu: The Savior, the Preserver, and the Protector – Religion 100Q: Hinduism Project

Really, it is not that hard CG, unless of course you wish to keep an argument open to play some games.

So you don't have any quotes from Baha'u'llah? But thanks for that link to the article about Vishnu. Did you read it? What do you think?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So you don't have any quotes from Baha'u'llah? But thanks for that link to the article about Vishnu. Did you read it? What do you think?

Yes I read through it, shows you the diversity of thoughts.

P/S We have covered many of the questions, I see no need to go over them again. The answers are in the writings CG, that should be where you look if you want to find the answers, as that is what I would post.

Maybe if you cover one question at a time. Life is busy with work and study, study no fun at my age, but such is life, now needing pieces of paper so you can get a job

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

) I too have questions for you, Tony. Moses said that he saw the hind part of YHWH and that he had a message from Allah. You accept him. You agree that Jesus and Mohammad came with messages from Allah. You agree that the 19th Century Iranian preacher, Bahaollah, was a manifestation of Allah and came with a message from Allah. But you do not accept that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Mahdi, came with a message from Allah. In a similar manner, you do not accept the following people who have claimed to be returning Jesuses/Mahdis. Kindly note that I have listed only those people who have made such claims in 21st Century. If you add those from 20th Century, the list would be much longer. Iran, in particular, seems to be greatly affected by this malady and seem to have a bug in their bonnet as you would notice from the following. So, Bahaollah was nothing special.

Partial list of people who have claimed to be Mahdis:
Dia Abdul Zahra Kadim (1970 – January 2007), a Shia Iraqi former leader of Soldiers of Heaven, claimed to be the Mahdi.
According to seminary expert, Mehdi Ghafari, more than 3,000 Mahdi claimants were in prison in Iran in 2012.
List of Mahdi claimants - Wikipedia

Partial list of people who have claimed to be Jesus:
Apollo Quiboloy (1950–) is the founder and leader of a Philippines-based Restorationist church, the Kingdom of Jesus Christ, The Name Above Every Name, Inc. He has made claims that he is the "Appointed Son of God".
Hasan Mezarcı (1954–) is a former politician and member of parliament in the Republic of Turkey (1991-1995), was expelled from the Welfare Party and imprisoned for his extreme view against secularism. He claimed to be a prophet, the Messiah, and Jesus after his imprisonment.
Alan John Miller (1962–), more commonly known as A.J. Miller, a former Jehovah's Witness elder and current leader of the Australia-based Divine Truth movement. Miller claims to be Jesus Christ reincarnated with others in the 20th century to spread messages that he calls the "Divine Truth". He delivers these messages in seminars and various forms of media along with his current partner Mary Suzanne Luck, who identifies herself as the returned Mary Magdalene.
David Shayler (1965–) is a former MI5 agent and whistleblower who, in the summer of 2007, proclaimed himself to be the Messiah. He has released a series of videos on YouTube claiming to be Jesus, although he has not built up any noticeable following since his claims.
Maurice Clemmons (1972–2009), an American felon responsible for the 2009 murder of four police officers in Washington state, referred to himself in May 2009 as Jesus.
Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez (1990–). In November 2011, he fired nine shots with a Romanian Cugir SA semi-automatic rifle at the White House in Washington D.C., believing himself to be Jesus Christ sent to kill U.S. President Barack Obama, whom he believed to be the antichrist.
List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

 

[TransmutingSoul]

) I too have questions for you, Tony. Moses said that he saw the hind part of YHWH and that he had a message from Allah. You accept him. You agree that Jesus and Mohammad came with messages from Allah. You agree that the 19th Century Iranian preacher, Bahaollah, was a manifestation of Allah and came with a message from Allah. But you do not accept that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, the Mahdi, came with a message from Allah. In a similar manner, you do not accept the following people who have claimed to be returning Jesuses/Mahdis. Kindly note that I have listed only those people who have made such claims in 21st Century. If you add those from 20th Century, the list would be much longer. Iran, in particular, seems to be greatly affected by this malady and seem to have a bug in their bonnet as you would notice from the following. So, Bahaollah was nothing special.

Partial list of people who have claimed to be Mahdis:
Dia Abdul Zahra Kadim (1970 – January 2007), a Shia Iraqi former leader of Soldiers of Heaven, claimed to be the Mahdi.
According to seminary expert, Mehdi Ghafari, more than 3,000 Mahdi claimants were in prison in Iran in 2012.
List of Mahdi claimants - Wikipedia

Partial list of people who have claimed to be Jesus:
Apollo Quiboloy (1950–) is the founder and leader of a Philippines-based Restorationist church, the Kingdom of Jesus Christ, The Name Above Every Name, Inc. He has made claims that he is the "Appointed Son of God".
Hasan Mezarcı (1954–) is a former politician and member of parliament in the Republic of Turkey (1991-1995), was expelled from the Welfare Party and imprisoned for his extreme view against secularism. He claimed to be a prophet, the Messiah, and Jesus after his imprisonment.
Alan John Miller (1962–), more commonly known as A.J. Miller, a former Jehovah's Witness elder and current leader of the Australia-based Divine Truth movement. Miller claims to be Jesus Christ reincarnated with others in the 20th century to spread messages that he calls the "Divine Truth". He delivers these messages in seminars and various forms of media along with his current partner Mary Suzanne Luck, who identifies herself as the returned Mary Magdalene.
David Shayler (1965–) is a former MI5 agent and whistleblower who, in the summer of 2007, proclaimed himself to be the Messiah. He has released a series of videos on YouTube claiming to be Jesus, although he has not built up any noticeable following since his claims.
Maurice Clemmons (1972–2009), an American felon responsible for the 2009 murder of four police officers in Washington state, referred to himself in May 2009 as Jesus.
Oscar Ramiro Ortega-Hernandez (1990–). In November 2011, he fired nine shots with a Romanian Cugir SA semi-automatic rifle at the White House in Washington D.C., believing himself to be Jesus Christ sent to kill U.S. President Barack Obama, whom he believed to be the antichrist.
List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

Good net research Aupmanyav, the answer is already recorded.

The answer begins and is recorded in the Older Testaments;

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 - But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. (Their Message will not stand the greatest test of time)

Confirmed in the newer Testaments;

1 John 4:1-6 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

They may even be seen to be a True Prophet by many;

Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

So now we would have to look at the same records as to how to Judge a True Prophet, there are quite a few Tests to use.

Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah all pass those points of Judgement. IMHO.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

"So now we would have to look at the same records as to how to Judge a True Prophet, there are quite a few Tests to use.
Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah all pass those points of Judgement. IMHO.":
Kindly enlarge and enlighten me.

Krishna is confirmed as a Manifestation of God in the Baha'i Writings. He founded a Faith that has now become a part of a collection of Faiths and beliefs, in a movement called Hinduism.
Vishnu: The Savior, the Preserver, and the Protector – Religion 100Q: Hinduism Project

That is very funny. I thought we were discussing something serious about what that 19th Century Iranian preacher said about Krishna or Hinduism and you link a students one-page blog about Vishnu.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is very funny. I thought we were discussing something serious about what that 19th Century Iranian preacher said about Krishna or Hinduism and you link a students one-page blog about Vishnu.

The important thing to me is that the Baha'i Writings confirm Krishna is a Manifestation of God, a Sun of Truth, a bringer of truth. I see that is so, as people still see that light, Krishna did not die.

The link was to demonstrate how Faiths can and do change, if we do not go back to what was originally offered by Krishna. Many Hindu do not follow Krishna, so the link also demonstrates how people also pick the best of many sources and also make up their own faiths.

As my view is based on all this being sent by God and we have discussed this in detail the past and I know you do not beleive in God. Is it not better for us just to be friends, in wanting the best for all?

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

The important thing to me is that the Baha'i Writings confirm Krishna is a Manifestation of God, a Sun of Truth, a bringer of truth. I see that is so, as people still see that light, Krishna did not die.

Krishna is not the only God in Hinduism. There are scores more. And it is OK for any Hindu to worship any of them - Buddha, Rama, Parashurama, Vamana, Nrisimha, Varaha, Kurma, Matsya. Apart from the avataras of Lord Vishnu, there are Shiva, Ganesha, Kartikeya/Murugan, Surya, and the Mother Goddesses, Durga, Parvati, Laxmi, Saraswati and many more. Krishna is not the sole repository of wisdom in Hinduism. We have many more sources.