Audie
Veteran Member
That is what a believer does, believe things.
We should like be impressed?
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Are Scientists playing God?
- Thread starter Jesuslightoftheworld
- Start date
We should like be impressed?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Among many things, directly nuclear research advanced medicine, and indirectly we got what would grow into email, intranets, and the internet itself. But radioisotopes especially are a non violent and tremendous thing that came out of nuclear research.
If a god didn't want us to go down this path, why would he have given us the mental tools, the curiosity, the enginuity, and the love of solving things?
Humans, as free willed beings, have a choice to do things the Creator's way (following the manufacturer's instructions) or muddling through on their own and ignoring them because of imagining that they know better.
Its the difference between telling humans what is best for them, and allowing them through first hand experience to find out that they aren't as clever as they thought they were.
And how would you know anything about what God "intended?" Or how would you explain that if God did not "intend" for the atom to be split, that we mere humans could manage that? Are we more powerful than God? And since, if we couldn't split the atom, we are condemned to burn everything in sight to provide the energy needed to warm, cool and feed ourselves, that we are likewise destined to destroy the planet through climate change?
Yes, we did it, and look what happened: two bombs were dropped, and a world war ended almost immediately -- and then we turned nuclear power to so many useful and necessary purposes! (Or did you forget that?)
What's your issue with cloning? It's just reproduction, after all. And if you believe that God is the only One who can create life -- what role do parents play in that?
Good, you "believe in the soul." What is it? When was yours delivered to you after you parents completed the joyful act that made you? Did it come from them, or was it delivered by parcel post later?
You have lots of notions, but very little knowledge. My thoughts are that it wouldn't hurt you all that much to seek some of that knowledge, and then begin your voyage of discovery again...
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
You really believe that the small benefits that come from using radiation in medicine outweighs the damage caused by Chernobyl or Fukushima? And justifies Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Seriously?
Riders
Well-Known Member
All humans have the light within them, we all have souls irregardless of how we get here.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
Here's a few examples. Please explain hiw these are of "small benefit?" Especially when it comes to medical imaging, diagnosing, and treatment (especially for cancer).
Bird123
Well-Known Member
The unknown often brings fear into people's lives through their lack of understanding.
You underestimate God greatly. All of this has been figured out ahead of time.
Splitting the atom is just the beginning. The future will bring advances far greater than this. Mankind will learn as they progress. When they finally master fusion, the need for fossil fuels will be gone. How much easier will it be to breathe? Now if you are afraid of fusion, remember the Sun is a fusion reaction. Could you really live without that?
When you understand cloning, your fear will go away. God has the answers staring you in the face. We are all Spiritual beings in our true natures. We are placed in a physical body after birth when long term memories become possible. A clone is no more than a copy of a physical body. God will place another person in that body. It's the very same thing as identical twins. They will look alike, however they are always different people.
Education comes through every action. If mankind goes crazy and clones everyone instead of natural childbirth, God will send a plague. This would not be to punish. This would be to teach mankind the need for diversity. Natural childbirth creates and maintains that diversity. No plague will wipe out everyone because of this.
WE are all meant to Discover, Learn, and Grow. This should never be feared for this process is the direction that will solve all problems. It is our path to perfection.
Hungry Students will get there quicker. Be Brave enough to search for the Real Answers.
Well, that's what I see. It's very clear to me.
That viewpoint explains why someone might do something, but it doesn't really explain the drive to do something. We are problem solvers as a species. We are driven to find the best answers to our problems. Why make us with that innate drive if he doesn't want us to act on it?
Also, why is it bad if we do solve our own problems? Surely, having a higher life expectancy due to modern medicine is better than dying of something entirely preventable like cholera, right?
This response makes me realize how woefully the churches have portrayed the God of the Bible.
Are you of no religious persuasion because of what the churches teach about God? If so I don't blame you. I wondered about it all too, once. So I undertook a Bible study without the church and found the God I had been searching for...he was in the Bible...but not the church. Christendom does not know him, nor have they ever served in his interests. Jesus would never have set foot inside their many religious structures, no matter how grandiose they may have been. (Matthew 7:21-23)
We are designed to be problem solvers, which is why we are 'created in God's image'. It isn't obviously his physical image, but in our attributes and moral qualities...things not seen in animals who are only governed by instinct. We alone have free will and the ability to see beyond 'the now' and consider consequences by the use of our imagination. Animals can alter their actions through conditioning, but that is simply based on previous experience....we don't need previous personal experience to adjust our actions....we can foresee where our actions may take us, and alter our course.
What do you see in human behavior down through history that invites you to trust them and their motives?
What do you see happening in today's world that gives you any hope for the future when corruption is at the very foundation of every part of human society? Where have the "good guys" gone?
Please examine "modern medicine" and ask yourself if the "higher life expectancy" equals better quality of life?
As one who has close and intimate knowledge of Nursing Homes, let me tell you about how wonderful that life expectancy is for a great many of our seniors.....these facilities can be the most depressing places in existence because as "Care Facilities" there is little care about anything but the money that each body in a bed represents. When "caring" becomes a business, all that matters is the profit. They are notoriously understaffed and care workers are under qualified and under-payed......but the charges are for premium services that are never seen in the majority of these homes. (They are nothing like "home" for the majority of people.)
The prevention of diseases like cholera, or Ebola is the result of poverty and poor standards of hygiene...all caused by human politics for the most part. Whatever aid is pumped into these poorer nations gets siphoned off to their military and the accumulation of weapons, making the arms manufacturers richer....and the citizens poorer.
Then examine the pharmaceutical industry and ask yourself how many of the drugs that people take are curing anyone of any ailment? Do you not recognize that the profit driven corporations are creating customers for life. The drugs offered are not enough to kill people (though undeniably, legal drugs kill more people each year than illicit drugs do) they are designed to merely alleviate symptoms so that a person will feel better, but they are never cured of what ails them. They will take those drugs for the rest of their miserable lives thinking that the medical profession cares about them. Doctors know their pharmacology, and have been indoctrinated to believe that what they are practicing is "medicine"...when all they are actually doing is acting as 'pimps' for Big Pharma. Its a racket.
Patent medicines are those which make the drug companies the most money. Why do you think that in this day and age the treatment for cancer has not altered in decades? Its a huge money spinner. If there was a cure for cancer available, they would never let it be known....but the internet is hard to silence, which is why cannabis is now so actively sought as a cancer fighter. It was there all along but the drug manufacturers saw it as competition for their patent drugs, so they demonized it and people still believe that cannabis is a dangerous drug....it never was. There has never been a single death from a cannabis overdose ever recorded. It is less harmful than alcohol and way less harmful than cigarettes....yet people are still getting arrested for using it as medicine, unless you live in the right state.
Its time to wake up and smell the coffee.....what people have put their trust in, will prove to be the most untrustworthy institutions in existence. The lid is getting lifted a little more each day....as the Bible said it would be. This is about human rulers proving to be who they really are....godless, selfish, greedy and corrupt. If this describes those at the top, what hope is there for those at the bottom?
roger1440
I do stuff
If "God is the only One who can create life", then logic would dictate cloning isn't creating life. There is your answer.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Unless God created this ability in human
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Are Scientists playing God?
Even some Religious people are playing God, when they claim to know what God thinks, says or said. And claim to know what God wants them to do, and above all claim to know that God wants them to tell others what others should do (all according to God, whom they never met; so all hearsay).
There seems to be a lot of knowledge about God, or is it just all "playing God"?
At least most Scientists don't claim "God told me to do so". They just do what they do.
And if God is the Creator of all, then also of the Scientist. And if God has full control of all, then also of Scientists.
If nothing escapes His attention AND He is 'on top' of His Creation (any good Manager should be, or do you question His Manager Skills?)
I guess He will be perfectly capable to handle His own Creation. I have not the slightest doubt about that. All it takes is just 1 Word of God, so some claim...... or maybe 6 or 7 days others claim. I don't know all about these details.I leave those things to God.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
The great dark age, Kali yuga, is ending. And of course dark deeds were done during the darkness. But after darkness comes the Sat yuga, the golden age where virtue will reign and science will be used positively.
As to the purpose of darkness - today I saw this:
Had I not fallen, I would not have arisen. Had I not been subject to darkness, I would not have seen the light." Midrash
As to the purpose of darkness - today I saw this:
Had I not fallen, I would not have arisen. Had I not been subject to darkness, I would not have seen the light." Midrash
lukethethird
unknown member
More specifically, identical twins are clones.
This response makes me realize how woefully the churches have portrayed the God of the Bible.
Are you of no religious persuasion because of what the churches teach about God? If so I don't blame you. I wondered about it all too, once. So I undertook a Bible study without the church and found the God I had been searching for...he was in the Bible...but not the church. Christendom does not know him, nor have they ever served in his interests. Jesus would never have set foot inside their many religious structures, no matter how grandiose they may have been. (Matthew 7:21-23)
For me, personally? Through intellectual honesty with myself, and study of history and other religions. I do prefer to not shut out the idea of god(s) completely, so I'd like to think that I do keep an open mind. That said, I'm not really convinced any religion holds a monopoly on truth -especially in regards to some elevated entity that cannot be proven to exist (yet).
To an extent, though I don't agree with your view on this subject completely. Who we are as individuals is subject to our surroundings, and we can become conditioned as well. Our decisions and actions are limited by those pressures.
Your perspective on mankind seems rather jaded to me. People can do bad things, true, but I guess I've always looked at people in a glass half-full kind of way.
I don't really have to trust them or their motives. I only really have to trust in myself. I can also trust in other things in my life, but only after it's proven itself to be trustworthy. I can be wrong, but I can also learn from my mistakes.
Curious, but what makes you think things are any worse than they used to be? 200 years ago slavery was a thing in the states. 200 years before that slavery was a fact of life no matter where you lived in the world. Wars are at an all time low, and quality of life is at an all time high. While bad things exist, and always will, it seems that things are getting better, no? I can't think of a better time to be alive than right now -can you?
Considering vaccinations have kept me from contracting plagues, I'd say so. I also suffered a grievous injury that would have crippled me if it weren't for a skilled surgeon. I have a metal joint now, but I'm stronger than I've ever been before, have no pain, and almost all the mobility I had before my accident. That seems like a better quality of life to me.
That's sad... It also reflects who we are as a culture in the United States. My second family is Phillipino, and I see the way they honor their grandparents. I wish we treated our seniors with that same respect, instead of like they were some kind of inconvenience to be shipped away to be someone else's problem. We can do better.
True. Keep in mind that the idea of hygiene is something that has advanced with time and research. People who lived in cities in antiquity would throw their sewage into the streets, or into the rivers they drank from. Through scientific study, we pinpointed the problems and have learned why they happen. While preventable diseases are still around, they are at an all time low, and they are continuing to go down.
As for the way politics have led to poverty and the lack of knowledge on preventqble illness, it is a shame. In spite of that, better health practices are spreading, and only prove to get better with time.
I will say that the cost of drugs in the US is way too damn high. That has more to do with our medical system than anything else. This is the problem with having private businesses run medical organizations rather than having our government run things.
As for the drugs themselves, it's true abuse happens. Corporations take advantage of the system in place, for sure. Drugs also save lives, though. I take blood pressure medicine. That helps keep me alive, or at least gives me a longer lifespan. Bipolar disorder runs in my family, and if it wasn't for those drugs, their quality of life would definitely be worse.
I don't have as negative of an outlook on drugs as you seem to have, I guess.
Patent medicines are those which make the drug companies the most money. Why do you think that in this day and age the treatment for cancer has not altered in decades? Its a huge money spinner. If there was a cure for cancer available, they would never let it be known....but the internet is hard to silence, which is why cannabis is now so actively sought as a cancer fighter. It was there all along but the drug manufacturers saw it as competition for their patent drugs, so they demonized it and people still believe that cannabis is a dangerous drug....it never was. There has never been a single death from a cannabis overdose ever recorded. It is less harmful than alcohol and way less harmful than cigarettes....yet people are still getting arrested for using it as medicine, unless you live in the right state.
Interesting how better information has led to more accurate knowledge, right? 100 years ago, marijuana was the devil's weed, and cigarettes were great for kids to smoke. Now we can make more informed decisions than we used to.
Its time to wake up and smell the coffee.....what people have put their trust in, will prove to be the most untrustworthy institutions in existence. The lid is getting lifted a little more each day....as the Bible said it would be. This is about human rulers proving to be who they really are....godless, selfish, greedy and corrupt. If this describes those at the top, what hope is there for those at the bottom?
Yikes. That's a very grim way to view the world...
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